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Unread 02/02/2015, 02:28 PM   #1
R6_boogieman
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Question kent marine ?

has anybody used the Kent marine essential elements ? if so is it worth dosing tank with it ?


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Unread 02/02/2015, 02:45 PM   #2
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If you can't or don't test for it, then don't dose it. Don't put much stock in a lot of those "essential" products that claim all sorts of things.

Calcium
Alkalinity
Magnesium

Get those three going with a good setup like the Bulk Reef Supply products and you can go a long way in this hobby.


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Unread 02/02/2015, 04:15 PM   #3
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If you skim 24/7 or run ozone and or carbon 24/7 and make only minimal or infrequent water changes then it can be useful to replenish trace elements you cannot test for.


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Unread 02/02/2015, 04:37 PM   #4
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If you skim 24/7 or run ozone and or carbon 24/7 and make only minimal or infrequent water changes then it can be useful to replenish trace elements you cannot test for.
If you can't test for them how do you know they need to be replenished, and how do you know it works?


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Unread 02/02/2015, 05:07 PM   #5
fishchef
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I'm real "Old School". Been doin' SW since '92. Reef since 2000. I used to use all kinds of stuff ie.,TE, Coral Vital, etc. Stopped years ago. If you can't measure it or there's no data on how much is needed like Iodine or Iodide why waste the money. The salt mix is what's important.


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Unread 02/02/2015, 10:04 PM   #6
R6_boogieman
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whoa yall started arguing and i dont even know what was the legit answer lol ... so im guessing test levels before dosing ?


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Unread 02/02/2015, 10:12 PM   #7
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Unless you have an sps dominant tank or do absolutely no water changes you likely don't need to dose. Salt mix has all of the trace elements needed in it unless you have a lot of stony corals that eat up calcium, magnesium, and affect your kh. Test for those and if they are in proper order just do your regular water changes and you are fine. I have - bunch of lps in my 65 and don't have to dose anything but calcium every few months.

And yes, test before dosing. If you have the calcium and magnesium levels too high the calcium can precipitate out and make it look like it's snowing in your tank.


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Unread 02/02/2015, 10:13 PM   #8
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Correct, test anything you are going to dose. If it can't be tested, it shouldn't be dosed.


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Unread 02/02/2015, 10:36 PM   #9
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Well it's interesting. I'm of two minds on the topic frankly. I do get the 'don't add it if you're not testing for it' (though now we have Triton that tests pretty much everything - well, within reason). But at the same time, my tank just looks better and healthier with judicious dosing.

About three months ago I decided to dump all dosing except for the big 3. Not long after, I began to experience STN across many of my SPS corals and even a few LPS. Coincidence? Maybe so. But, I recently decided to start my dosing back up again and the STN has largely stopped. Coincidence? Maybe so.

But I did decide to submit a water sample for Triton testing and, even with dosing, my levels were really spot on. All four slight deviations were for things that I do not dose (and others who don't does had the same deviations). Oh yeah, and Essential Elements is one of the things I dose.

Not saying you should dose or that you shouldn't dose; just that taking a rather dogmatic position seems unduly rigid. Maybe there is data and I'm just not familiar with it. For now I'll stick with what has worked for me until it doesn't work for me ... then I'll try to figure out why not.


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Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

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Unread 02/03/2015, 07:47 AM   #10
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I guess I will toss my 2 cents in FWIW. Early on I would get the bottles of supplements and toss them in based on the directions. I had some things look better, did I get lucky beats me. Fast forward to now I dose for Alk, Calc and Mag based off of test results using 2 part. Now that I have a much larger tank 180g compared to then 29g and much more invested into the tank in time and money, I would only dose things I can test for. So the answer is clear as mud right.


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Unread 02/03/2015, 10:08 AM   #11
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It is a difficult/complicated subject and all you asked was should you dose trace elements. We did it for years and can't really say it hurt. Dosing can add to your bio-load however. Many top notch companies spend a lot of money perfecting the salt blends. The content of the salt contains everything they know about. If you do your partials regularly all you need to test for is SG, dKH, CA, Mg, and PO4. Have fun,don't worry too much, and don't go test crazy.


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Unread 02/03/2015, 11:41 AM   #12
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you got a point there fishchef. ok so here is a little more info on my tank "dont know if it would matter" the tank is a 55g with a 40g sump, i have 150lbs of live rock, coralife super skimmer rated for 150g, cheato, and more live rock in the sump. im using a bag of chemi pure, and a small bag of carbon in sump as well, i do water changes every 2 weeks sometimes earlier depending if im in a happy mood. i do about 15 to 20 gallon change each time "because of the big sump i do that much"


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Unread 02/03/2015, 11:44 AM   #13
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Are you dosing a 2 part and are you testing for anything?


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Joshua


"With fronds like these, who needs anemones?" - Albert Einstein

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Unread 02/03/2015, 11:49 AM   #14
R6_boogieman
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i still havent dosed, i bought the bottle of essential elements but im just waiting to hear everybodys opinion. bottle says dose once a week if you do frequent water changes and if not then once every 2 weeks. if anything im planning to take water samples to this high end store and check it often but the thing is that they charge 5 dollars to test :/


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Unread 02/03/2015, 01:14 PM   #15
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I use it, every 2 weeks.




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Unread 02/03/2015, 01:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
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bottle says dose once a week if you do frequent water changes and if not then once every 2 weeks.
That's the biggest issue for me. That recommendation is based on nothing. It doesn't take into account how your tank is stocked. Are they saying to dose the same amount for a 1" frag all alone as you would for a mature, fully grown in SPS reef? It doesn't make much sense does it? The only qualification is how many water changes you do?

The other issue is, they are saying to dose more frequently if you are doing more frequent water changes. Water changes are what is replenishing your trace elements. The salt mixes are pretty well balanced. We dose to replace what is lost between changes. So, if this were really doing what it said it was doing, then less frequent water changes should call for more frequent dosing.


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Unread 02/03/2015, 01:24 PM   #17
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I use it, every 2 weeks.

wow mark that looks really good ... i want that same growth. so please share with me you routine "if you dont mind"


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Unread 02/03/2015, 01:25 PM   #18
Mark9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R6_boogieman View Post
has anybody used the Kent marine essential elements ? if so is it worth dosing tank with it ?
Just remember to take advice with a grain of salt.
Some people are so anal about things, especially people that have been doing this for awhile, their "way" or the highway.


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Unread 02/03/2015, 01:26 PM   #19
R6_boogieman
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That's the biggest issue for me. That recommendation is based on nothing. It doesn't take into account how your tank is stocked. Are they saying to dose the same amount for a 1" frag all alone as you would for a mature, fully grown in SPS reef? It doesn't make much sense does it? The only qualification is how many water changes you do?

The other issue is, they are saying to dose more frequently if you are doing more frequent water changes. Water changes are what is replenishing your trace elements. The salt mixes are pretty well balanced. We dose to replace what is lost between changes. So, if this were really doing what it said it was doing, then less frequent water changes should call for more frequent dosing.
well im not sure what to ask you anymore, it seems like you are anti chemicals. which is totaly fine and i respect that, but i think i want to try this and worst comes to worst ill just stop using it, no harm done... well maybe couple frags will maybe lost but im willing to do a little sacrificing.


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Unread 02/03/2015, 01:27 PM   #20
R6_boogieman
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Quote:
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Just remember to take advice with a grain of salt.
Some people are so anal about things, especially people that have been doing this for awhile, their "way" or the highway.
so how big is your tank and how often do you water change/ how much water ?


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Unread 02/03/2015, 01:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
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well im not sure what to ask you anymore, it seems like you are anti chemicals. which is totaly fine and i respect that, but i think i want to try this and worst comes to worst ill just stop using it, no harm done... well maybe couple frags will maybe lost but im willing to do a little sacrificing.
Im not anti chemicals in any way. I dose Cal, Alk and Mag in my reef. I am against companies selling magic in a bottle that is impossible to verify in any way, and doesn't hold up to any real scrutiny. It's the equivalent of going and buying an "herbal supplement". There is plenty of information on this out there. If you do some basic searches you will see things like Kent's supplements and purple up etc being shown to have no real benefits.


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Unread 02/03/2015, 01:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R6_boogieman View Post
wow mark that looks really good ... i want that same growth. so please share with me you routine "if you dont mind"
Thanks.
Red sea max tank 250 (66g) with stock skimmer.
ATI bulbs.
Filtration is 1 purigen and 1 chemi-pure blue, changed every 3 months
reef crystals salt
15% water changes every 2 weeks
2 part BRS dosing
5ml Kents every 2 weeks
feed fish only larry's reef frenzy
reef chili and reef energy for the corals every 2-3 weeks
alk 8.4
ca 440
mg 1350
sg 1.026
temp 78
0 nitrates
I think thats it


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Unread 02/03/2015, 01:45 PM   #23
R6_boogieman
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awesome thank a bunch mark that helps alot. i guess let me cross my fingers and hope all goes well. thank you once again


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Unread 02/03/2015, 02:24 PM   #24
ca1ore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by username in use View Post
That's the biggest issue for me. That recommendation is based on nothing. It doesn't take into account how your tank is stocked. Are they saying to dose the same amount for a 1" frag all alone as you would for a mature, fully grown in SPS reef? It doesn't make much sense does it? The only qualification is how many water changes you do?

The other issue is, they are saying to dose more frequently if you are doing more frequent water changes. Water changes are what is replenishing your trace elements. The salt mixes are pretty well balanced. We dose to replace what is lost between changes. So, if this were really doing what it said it was doing, then less frequent water changes should call for more frequent dosing.
I think the answer is that there is very little science to the dosage, and you just have to work out for yourself what makes sense. I agree with you on water changes, but I also would have thought the dosage also depends on whether one is using GAC or other forms of chemical filtration.

I always start with 1/4 of the recommended dosage, and go from there. As I noted earlier, now that Triton testing is available to use, the ability to measure many more things becomes a reality. I know I plan to submit a water sample every 3-6 months (just did my first one).


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Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
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Unread 02/03/2015, 02:33 PM   #25
tmz
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I have used it and other types of dosing ( iron. potassium, ammino acids, sodium nitrate, iodine etc)over the years without discernible benfits in my tanks. I have only dosed calcium, alk ,rarely magnesium along with vodka and vinegar for organic carbon ;small water 1% water changes and foods seem to have handled the rest quite well over the last several years.
Since we are doing show and tell,here are a few random shots of mine:

http://s229.photobucket.com/


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