Plumbing layout opinions

user3 · 03/17/2015, 09:57 PM

Hey everyone, I have been in the hobby for a little while and had a tank failure so I'm starting over and doing it "correctly" (I hope.) I was looking for some input on a plumbing setup as my previous setup used a cannister filter.

Quick background: 90rr Perfecto with a single corner overflow which has a 1" drain, and a 1" return. I would be using the plumbing kit that comes with the tank as well as the included ABS bulkheads. Aqueon Pro Flex Model 4 sump. Reef Octopus NWB150. Eheim 1262. x2 single BRS Deluxe Reactors for carbon and GFO. Skimmer will be in middle chamber for now instead of having a refugium (which could change in the future). Everything should be glued, 1" rigid PVC. Ideally, I'd like to run everything off of the single pump to cut down on clutter, electricity, etc.

My Plan for the drain from the bulkhead: Spears gate valve (wide open during operation and only in place if the sump needs to be removed for whatever reason so I don't have to fiddle with the weir) into a schedule 80 1" true union, then directly into one of the filter socks.

My Plan for the return from the pump: A schedule 80 1" true union, into four 1" pvc tees. Each tee will have a Spears gate valve and a slip to hose barb connection. Two of the tees will immediately be used for the two single BRS deluxe reactors running carbon and GFO. The other two are future proofing (reactors, chiller, anything else) and will have their gate valves closed for now. From the last tee the pvc goes into a schedule 80 1" true union, then another Spears gate valve to control flow to the return, then into the bulkhead. I'm skipping a check valve as research leaned towards eventual failure anyway. I'm planning on making sure my sump can handle a power failure, and the included plumbing return already has a hole drilled near the surface.

This is a basic setup compared to a lot of you guys on here, and I'm overthinking it which I tried not to do and just need some input. I know it's going to be expensive (about $300) Is it overkill? Did I miss something? I'd prefer to do it right the first time with quality parts.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Dmorty217 · 03/18/2015, 08:44 AM

If you could provide some sort of drawling it would really help us be able to answer this question right the first time

adova · 03/18/2015, 08:49 AM

Hi - A couple of observations.

If money is no object, go for the gate valves - otherwise, ball valves will work for most of your setup where fine adjustment is not needed.

I am not sure your pump is going to handle everything you are teeing it off for. It is rated at 900 gph, but you need to subtract for head loss. If you are planning anywhere near 10 times the flow turnover, you will probably need the entire pump just for the return.

Check valves are ok as long as you are not using them as a safety device to ensure that your sump does not over flow. I like mine because it keeps the lines full of water for restarts.

You are probably not going to want to have the skimmer in the same chamber of the sump as the return pump (if I read that correctly). The bubbles that it will create will be sucked up by the pump and introduced into your DT as micro bubbles.

adova · 03/18/2015, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmorty217

If you could provide some sort of drawling it would really help us be able to answer this question right the first time

hehe - yea - I had to re-read it 3 -4 times...

user3 · 03/18/2015, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adova

Hi - A couple of observations.

If money is no object, go for the gate valves - otherwise, ball valves will work for most of your setup where fine adjustment is not needed.

I am not sure your pump is going to handle everything you are teeing it off for. It is rated at 900 gph, but you need to subtract for head loss. If you are planning anywhere near 10 times the flow turnover, you will probably need the entire pump just for the return.

Check valves are ok as long as you are not using them as a safety device to ensure that your sump does not over flow. I like mine because it keeps the lines full of water for restarts.

You are probably not going to want to have the skimmer in the same chamber of the sump as the return pump (if I read that correctly). The bubbles that it will create will be sucked up by the pump and introduced into your DT as micro bubbles.

Thanks for the reply, I tried to be as descriptive as possible. I was under the impression that the reactors needed fine adjustment, so the gate valves were the way to go. From what I understand, the drain only allows for 700gph, does that mean I would have to dial down the return anyway? The skimmer won't be in the return section for now, unless a refugium is added, at which point the skimmer would have to go in the return section since the first drain chamber doesn't allow any space for equipment.

Thanks again

adova · 03/18/2015, 07:58 PM

Ball valves give you pretty good control overall. With certain applications (such as a BeanAnimal style system) you need that granular control. The media will not require much flow (20 - 40 gph) but a typical chiller will require hundreds of GPH.

As far as the drain gph, I would be surprised if the pump will out perform the drain after the head loss and what not. My recommendation would be to run the pump as a return alone and then slice into it later if it has extra flow left over.

I am still not sure I understand the sump layout. The skimmer will go into the refugium at first? How much drainage is directed to that area? You will want the skimmer to be in the section that has the most water flow so it can have contact with the most protein nutrient water. Otherwise you will end up "re-skimming" the same water and gaining less benefit.

user3 · 03/18/2015, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adova

Ball valves give you pretty good control overall. With certain applications (such as a BeanAnimal style system) you need that granular control. The media will not require much flow (20 - 40 gph) but a typical chiller will require hundreds of GPH.

As far as the drain gph, I would be surprised if the pump will out perform the drain after the head loss and what not. My recommendation would be to run the pump as a return alone and then slice into it later if it has extra flow left over.

I am still not sure I understand the sump layout. The skimmer will go into the refugium at first? How much drainage is directed to that area? You will want the skimmer to be in the section that has the most water flow so it can have contact with the most protein nutrient water. Otherwise you will end up "re-skimming" the same water and gaining less benefit.

I may end up going with true union ball valves, instead of a gate valve then a separate union just to consolidate plumbing parts. The sump has 3 chambers, the first being the drain section, then it flows into the 2nd chamber, then finally into the return chamber, with baffles between the chambers. For now, I'll be putting the skimmer into the second (middle) chamber. It seems like I'll skip the tees and just get the reactor with an mj1200 pump instead, I think they are only about 20watts anyway, and pretty compact.

Thanks again

julie180 · 03/19/2015, 07:29 AM

Skimmers in the return section are not a good idea. Even with an ato, the water level will have some fluctuation causing problems with most skimmers.

Unless you "must" have grey, schedule 80 is overkill. Save the money and use 40. Aquariums are an open system and will never get near the 200+ psi schedule 40 is rated for.

Have you considered running both lines out of your overflow as drains? That would be piece of mind in case one gets clogged. Returns can be run over the back.

Anywhere you put a valve, you create turbulence and potential noise. I ended up having to take them off my 180 overflows because of noise. DO NOT glue anything that is inside the overflow, just on the outside.

I agree with not teeing off the return pump. And, if you do decide to go that way make a straight run to your tank return first and tee off that dropping down to 3/4 or 1/2 for your reactors.

03/17/2015, 09:57 PM	#1
user3 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 16	Plumbing layout opinions Hey everyone, I have been in the hobby for a little while and had a tank failure so I'm starting over and doing it "correctly" (I hope.) I was looking for some input on a plumbing setup as my previous setup used a cannister filter. Quick background: 90rr Perfecto with a single corner overflow which has a 1" drain, and a 1" return. I would be using the plumbing kit that comes with the tank as well as the included ABS bulkheads. Aqueon Pro Flex Model 4 sump. Reef Octopus NWB150. Eheim 1262. x2 single BRS Deluxe Reactors for carbon and GFO. Skimmer will be in middle chamber for now instead of having a refugium (which could change in the future). Everything should be glued, 1" rigid PVC. Ideally, I'd like to run everything off of the single pump to cut down on clutter, electricity, etc. My Plan for the drain from the bulkhead: Spears gate valve (wide open during operation and only in place if the sump needs to be removed for whatever reason so I don't have to fiddle with the weir) into a schedule 80 1" true union, then directly into one of the filter socks. My Plan for the return from the pump: A schedule 80 1" true union, into four 1" pvc tees. Each tee will have a Spears gate valve and a slip to hose barb connection. Two of the tees will immediately be used for the two single BRS deluxe reactors running carbon and GFO. The other two are future proofing (reactors, chiller, anything else) and will have their gate valves closed for now. From the last tee the pvc goes into a schedule 80 1" true union, then another Spears gate valve to control flow to the return, then into the bulkhead. I'm skipping a check valve as research leaned towards eventual failure anyway. I'm planning on making sure my sump can handle a power failure, and the included plumbing return already has a hole drilled near the surface. This is a basic setup compared to a lot of you guys on here, and I'm overthinking it which I tried not to do and just need some input. I know it's going to be expensive (about $300) Is it overkill? Did I miss something? I'd prefer to do it right the first time with quality parts. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

03/18/2015, 08:44 AM	#2
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	If you could provide some sort of drawling it would really help us be able to answer this question right the first time __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs

03/18/2015, 08:49 AM	#3
adova Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,450	Hi - A couple of observations. If money is no object, go for the gate valves - otherwise, ball valves will work for most of your setup where fine adjustment is not needed. I am not sure your pump is going to handle everything you are teeing it off for. It is rated at 900 gph, but you need to subtract for head loss. If you are planning anywhere near 10 times the flow turnover, you will probably need the entire pump just for the return. Check valves are ok as long as you are not using them as a safety device to ensure that your sump does not over flow. I like mine because it keeps the lines full of water for restarts. You are probably not going to want to have the skimmer in the same chamber of the sump as the return pump (if I read that correctly). The bubbles that it will create will be sucked up by the pump and introduced into your DT as micro bubbles. __________________ No, honey - that's been in the tank for a while Current Tank Info: 240g Custom In Wall

03/18/2015, 07:58 PM	#6
adova Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,450	Ball valves give you pretty good control overall. With certain applications (such as a BeanAnimal style system) you need that granular control. The media will not require much flow (20 - 40 gph) but a typical chiller will require hundreds of GPH. As far as the drain gph, I would be surprised if the pump will out perform the drain after the head loss and what not. My recommendation would be to run the pump as a return alone and then slice into it later if it has extra flow left over. I am still not sure I understand the sump layout. The skimmer will go into the refugium at first? How much drainage is directed to that area? You will want the skimmer to be in the section that has the most water flow so it can have contact with the most protein nutrient water. Otherwise you will end up "re-skimming" the same water and gaining less benefit. __________________ No, honey - that's been in the tank for a while Current Tank Info: 240g Custom In Wall

03/19/2015, 07:29 AM	#8
julie180 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Raymore, MO Posts: 2,556	Skimmers in the return section are not a good idea. Even with an ato, the water level will have some fluctuation causing problems with most skimmers. Unless you "must" have grey, schedule 80 is overkill. Save the money and use 40. Aquariums are an open system and will never get near the 200+ psi schedule 40 is rated for. Have you considered running both lines out of your overflow as drains? That would be piece of mind in case one gets clogged. Returns can be run over the back. Anywhere you put a valve, you create turbulence and potential noise. I ended up having to take them off my 180 overflows because of noise. DO NOT glue anything that is inside the overflow, just on the outside. I agree with not teeing off the return pump. And, if you do decide to go that way make a straight run to your tank return first and tee off that dropping down to 3/4 or 1/2 for your reactors.