Will adding Vinegar to Kalk mix also make carbon source

[Jyetman]

To increase potency I add 2 tsp vinegar with 5 tsp Kalk to 2.5 Gallons. This helps maintain my ALK and Calcium but what about adding a carbon source will the vinegar provide this function too? For carbon dosing can I add additional vinegar directly to DT? Very frustrated with my 80 gallon reef system. Finding my PO4 and NO3 levels with a one sided algae scrubber seems hopeless must be working always get a handful of algae harvested every 5 - 7 days. My salifert PO4 shows zero but algae still grows on glass and rocks. My NO3 API kit also shows zero not sure if this is correct corals just don't seem happy need recommendations.

[bertoni]

Up to 2 tsp will dissolve per gallon, so you don't need to add the vinegar at all. It will act as a carbon source. If the tank needs more vinegar, then dosing it directly into the DT should be fine. If the phosphate and nitrate levels are reading at zero, though, I doubt that the system needs organic carbon.

What animals are in the tank, and what seems to be wrong with them?

[tmz]

I prefer to dose organic carbon (vodka and/or vinegar ) separately from kalk dosing. The vinegar not increasing the potency of 2 tsps per gallon. At that kalk concentration the acetic acid/vinegar is lowering the kalk wate pH and may be allowing some impruities to remain in solution which would otherwise precipitate out. using vinegar can allow up to approximately 3tsps of kalk per gallon to remain in solution if that's your goal but since alk and calcium are being maintained that seems unwarranted. With zero readings for PO4 and NO3 I wouldn't add more organic carbon and probably would cut it back.

[Jyetman]

Originally Posted by bertoni

Up to 2 tsp will dissolve per gallon, so you don't need to add the vinegar at all. It will act as a carbon source. If the tank needs more vinegar, then dosing it directly into the DT should be fine. If the phosphate and nitrate levels are reading at zero, though, I doubt that the system needs organic carbon.

What animals are in the tank, and what seems to be wrong with them?

Fish are fine they are Kole tang, perc clown, coral beauty, bangi cardnal and flame hawk feed twice a day. Corals one day look ok other days look bad colors aren't looking right some very light colored might be related to 10k razor LED. Besides keyna and ugly zoos taking over smaller Zoos and other LPS corals grow slow or eventually recede and die. Been changing carbon more often 2-3 weeks. Was told even when test show zero if algae still grows got po4 and no3 regardless what tests say. Has to be related to why corals not looking good?

[Jyetman]

Originally Posted by tmz

I prefer to dose organic carbon (vodka and/or vinegar ) separately from kalk dosing. The vinegar not increasing the potency of 2 tsps per gallon. At that kalk concentration the acetic acid/vinegar is lowering the kalk wate pH and may be allowing some impruities to remain in solution which would otherwise precipitate out. using vinegar can allow up to approximately 3tsps of kalk per gallon to remain in solution if that's your goal but since alk and calcium are being maintained that seems unwarranted. With zero readings for PO4 and NO3 I wouldn't add more organic carbon and probably would cut it back.

The reason I increase the Kalk potency is to maximize the storage size. When going on vacations need it strong so a slower drip rate last longer. My tests read zero but algae still growing in DT has to be detectable somehow.

[tmz]

How much calcium hydroxide/ kalk are you adding to how many gallons of water ? How much vinegar are you adding? There are many types of algae that are oligotrophic ( thrive in low nutrient water) btw. It's also possible substrate or rock is leaching some PO4 . The scrubber may be dropping the reading but the fact that it's gropwing well indicates ther are nutrients in the water being taken up by teh algae there and in other places.

[bertoni]

Those coral symptoms can be hard to diagnose. I might reduce the feeding for a while, and upgrading the skimmer sometimes helps, when appropriate. The carbon dosing is reasonable to try, as well.

If algae are growing, then they are getting phosphorus somehow. Most likely, they are consuming it as quickly as it's released by bacteria or other action (such as leaching).

[MacPhisto]

Your Salifert Po4 testkit is useless for a reeftank.. I have a check solution of 0,05 mg/l but the Salifert testkit will read 0, and algea still grows..

Better use a Red Sea testkit or Hanna checker.

[dkeller_nc]

Yep, as MacPhisto notes, any liquid phosphate test kit that uses a color chart is pretty much useless for marine purposes. The reason is fundamental to the chemistry used to perform the assay (the ammonium molybdate reaction) - the color obtained isn't strong enough at the concentration of inorganic phosphate that we're interested in to judge by eye.

There are multiple photometer-based inorganic phosphate tests on the market, but the most popular among reefers by far is the Hanna Checker series. Many prefer the ultra-low-range HI736 Phosphorous Checker; I prefer the HI713 Low-Range Phosphate Checker because of I experienced less issues with reagent packs with this test.

Either way, you're looking for a water concentration of inorganic phosphate of less than 100 ppb (0.1 ppm).

[dkeller_nc]

By the way, it's really unlikely that phosphate or nitrate in your tank water is killing coral, unless they were at extreme concentrations (obviously not the case in your tank). Keep in mind that while LED lighting will grow coral, the results can be uneven between species or even individual colonies of the same species. This is especially true of older fixtures that are missing the UV/violet spectral component - it's why I recommend to beginning reefers that they go with a T5HO fixture.

[Jyetman]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

By the way, it's really unlikely that phosphate or nitrate in your tank water is killing coral, unless they were at extreme concentrations (obviously not the case in your tank). Keep in mind that while LED lighting will grow coral, the results can be uneven between species or even individual colonies of the same species. This is especially true of older fixtures that are missing the UV/violet spectral component - it's why I recommend to beginning reefers that they go with a T5HO fixture.

I read that issue and added a 24" ATI Blue Plus bulb as a supplement. The Maxspect Razor is 2.5 years old and does have the UV/Violet LEDs but fear the 10k model lacks trying to save up for better model.

[Jyetman]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

Yep, as MacPhisto notes, any liquid phosphate test kit that uses a color chart is pretty much useless for marine purposes. The reason is fundamental to the chemistry used to perform the assay (the ammonium molybdate reaction) - the color obtained isn't strong enough at the concentration of inorganic phosphate that we're interested in to judge by eye.

There are multiple photometer-based inorganic phosphate tests on the market, but the most popular among reefers by far is the Hanna Checker series. Many prefer the ultra-low-range HI736 Phosphorous Checker; I prefer the HI713 Low-Range Phosphate Checker because of I experienced less issues with reagent packs with this test.

Either way, you're looking for a water concentration of inorganic phosphate of less than 100 ppb (0.1 ppm).

The hanna HI713 is on my wish list thanks for the info.