weird stray voltage issue please help

[jrlamountain]

the setup is a 180 display, 100 gallon Rubbermaid tub, 40 refug and 40 grow out tank. all run by one dc pump

so in a nut shell i keep getting shock when i put my head into the tank here is the issue it is not all the time is sporadic. i have checked all my equipment with a meter to see if anything is causing the issue and so far i cant find anything.

so when i first notice the shock i get a reading of around 54v on my meter if i turn everything on the tank off and on again either by pulling the main plugs or by testing each component the voltage drops down to below 10v i do have a titanium grounding plug on the tank so my fish are fine.

I really notice the issue when i stand bare foot on the concrete floor of my sump room and put my hand in the tank. the strange thing is that it seams like the charge on the tank is building to a point where i can feel it then it dissipates from me messing around with testing and pulling plugs. like i said i have ruled out the obvious things such as heaters and pumps. any ideas would be great. thanks for the help

[alton]

If your service ground is not adequate, with having the grounding probe installed, your service will use your tank as a grounding means. I came across this with a good friends tank; 2 volts but would shock the heck out of you. Also if you have a sub panel and the white wires (grounded conductors) and the bare (grounding conductors) on the same neutral bar this will contribute to the problem. I also use a grounding probe, but I know I have great grounding at my service. With electric motors we will always have some kind of stray voltage in our tanks, but with a grounding probe installed properly it should be zero, the fact you are showing 54 volts with a grounding probe is definitely a problem.

[mcgyvr]

Is all submerged equipment protected with a GFCI device?

And please stop putting your head in the tank while standing bare foot on concrete darwin.

[jrlamountain]

i will check the service ground and the gfci plug. also i only put my hand in once before i know it was shocking me. i used a meter after that. would a bad gfci plug cause this interment issue that i have

[mmn]

I'd say your grounding probe isn't really grounded - which is a good thing! Otherwise you'd likely have some serious current flow through your tank.

Voltage (a difference in potential between the tank and ground) is not a problem - current is. Lose the probe. And find the source of your voltage if you're going to stand barefoot on a wet floor with your hand, or any other part of your body, in the tank!

[jrlamountain]

Why is my prob not a good thing is it just covering up a issue

[mmn]

Originally Posted by jrlamountain

Why is my prob not a good thing is it just covering up a issue

If it were working, which I think it is not, it provides a path to ground and between that and wherever your voltage source is there will be current flow. Not good for living things. With no path to ground there can be no current flow - no matter what the voltage is. Good for living things.

So, voltage doesn't matter - until there's a path to ground. But it's good to find the source and fix or eliminate it because, as you've found out, when you are the path to ground it can bite you!

Edit: Try this little experiment. Stand barefoot in the wet grass and pee on an electric fence. Then levitate about a foot in the air and pee on the fence again. You will clearly see what I mean! (just kidding... )

[jrlamountain]

Makes sense thanks for the help I am going to remove the grounding plug and figure out what is causing the issue. The weird things is that it's sporadic there isn't always a measurable voltage it will go from 10v resting to over 45v and that is with everything turned on and running any ideas what would make it not always show a high voltage reading

[mmn]

Originally Posted by jrlamountain

Makes sense thanks for the help I am going to remove the grounding plug and figure out what is causing the issue. The weird things is that it's sporadic there isn't always a measurable voltage it will go from 10v resting to over 45v and that is with everything turned on and running any ideas what would make it not always show a high voltage reading

Probably a heater or something that is cycling on and off.

[jrlamountain]

I think that is what it must I have a spitter that I plug my heaters into and then the splinter is controlled by my apex system I've been pulling the plug from the spiltter and not the heaters of that makes any sence to you but I bet that is what it is

[mmn]

BTW. I'm not an electrician. But I think the idea behind a grounding probe is not to shunt small voltage differentials to ground. Those are of no danger and there will always be some small induced voltage.

I think it's more for the catastrophic failure that causes line voltage to be introduced into the tank, which would be a potentially lethal situation if you became a path to ground. A functioning ground probe would/should cause enough current flow to trip a breaker.

[jrlamountain]

Good to know thanks I've been reading good and bad reports about them

[jrlamountain]

So I just rechecked the heaters and they are only leaking less then a bolt each into the tank I also undid the grounding plug. My meter is measuring about 9vac in the tank compared to last night 55vac

[alton]

With the grounding probe installed, you should be reading 0 volts. If you are reading voltage with grounding probe installed you definitely have a major problem

[mcgyvr]

GFCI reminder.....

and the only thing a ground probe really does (or is proven to do) is that when used in combination with a GFCI device it will ensure that the instant a problem develops that the GFCI device will operate. Without a probe the problem will/could continue until your hand goes into the water then the GFCI will operate to save your life.

[jrlamountain]

With the grounding prob installed I get a reading of .001vac with it unplugged I get 8.9vac I'm still concerned about last nights readings and in the past readings of 54v but I will keep a close eye on it for now I will keep the grounding plug in and where my shoes when working on the tabk

[BuzzPion]

Originally Posted by kcress http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...0#post20407420

"Furthermore DO NOT use a ground probe. Those are the work of the devil and are nothing more than a misguided fool's errand with tons of down side and ZERO 0, NO, upside - except to the unwitting fools or devious scammers selling them."

[jrlamountain]

So probe should never be plugged in then I keep reading different opinions on it

[mmn]

Originally Posted by jrlamountain

So probe should never be plugged in then I keep reading different opinions on it

I see only two differing opinions - informed and uninformed...

[jrlamountain]

True but I'm my situation I work on my sumo area a lot which is on a concrete floor and I almost never have shoes on so is it better to have me be the grounding probe or my actually one if something is went bad

[Member No. 1]

You've stated that you've unplugged ALL the devices that are in the water, either the sump or tank, tub, refug and checked voltage and it still shows. Did you unplug them all at once then one by one plug them back in while checking? You said you have one pump running multiple tanks, tubs. Be sure everything is unplugged when you start to preform the tests.

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by jrlamountain

True but I'm my situation I work on my sumo area a lot which is on a concrete floor and I almost never have shoes on so is it better to have me be the grounding probe or my actually one if something is went bad

Again... GFCI.. That is the most important device to have.
Forget/ditch the ground probe..
Do not continue until you have ALL submerged equipment protected by a GFCI device..

GFCI..

Did someone say GFCI..

Again.. GFCI..

You can install a GFCI breaker or outlet or even a power strip with built in GFCI..
But do not do anything until you have a GFCI..

Did I mention GFCI..

[jrlamountain]

Lol I have a gfi plug for the tank everything is on that

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by jrlamountain

Lol I have a gfi plug for the tank everything is on that

Then don't worry..
if/when any problem develops it will trip..

A GFCI is the BEST way to know there is a problem..
Using a multimeter is not at all and causes more "false scares" than anything..

[dkeller_nc]

Originally Posted by jrlamountain

True but I'm my situation I work on my sumo area a lot which is on a concrete floor and I almost never have shoes on so is it better to have me be the grounding probe or my actually one if something is went bad

Just an FYI - do not ever work in/around/on a tank or its connected equipment without shoes on, particularly if it's on a grade-level concrete floor. Doing so is extremely dangerous; with dry shoes on, it's difficult to get a life-threatening shock by working on faulty electrical equipment. Without shoes, and especially if the floor's damp, it's quite easy to get a fatal shock if you grab a faulty cord/powerstrip/plug.

Honestly, this is far more important than a GFCI; GFCIs can and do fail without any external evidence. If you have good, dry, rubber-soled tennis shoes on, the worst that happens is you get a very unpleasant shock. With bare, potentially wet feet, the outcome could be far different.