noob plumbing

NedFlounders · 05/08/2015, 05:05 AM

New aquarium was delivered yesterday but I'm unsure how the connections work with the overflow? There are 3 holes under the overflow but I only see 2 connections inside the stand. I'm pretty sure it's simple, but but being this is my first time, I could use some help

Thanks!

CuzzA · 05/08/2015, 05:17 AM

Looks like you're missing a bulkhead for the return pipe. (Can be purchased at most LFS) Get those pipes out of there and secure the bulkheads first. The gasket goes on the flange side of the bulkhead and the nut on the outside.

What you have is a Herbie drain.
http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-...method-basics/

Lose the grey spa flex pipe and cover over the filter sock section. Instead hard plumb with schedule 40 pvc both drains. You'll want the main full siphon to have a gate (best) or true union ball valve and the end of the pipe to terminate 1" or less below the water level in the sump. The emergency drain can go anywhere and would be best if it did not terminate below the water line so you can hear water crashing from it, indicating your full siphon has clogged.

Also, it would be a very good idea to paint or seal any exposed plywood. Once plywood gets wet and/or over time the humidity in the stand starts to penetrate the exposed plywood and it will start to swell and separate.

Also, your two drains should be the same size bulkhead. It doesn't look like that in the picture. In the first picture it appears the far right hole is smaller than the two left. If this is the case then that would be where your return goes. If they are all different sizes (which would be odd) then use the two largest holes for the drains and the largest of the two for the emergency.

You're going to need threaded male adapters on all three bulkheads to make the connection under the tank. For the return you'll use "male pipe thread to barbed hose" and secure the hose with either plastic or stainless steel hose clamps. Put a union directly on the return pump so you can easily remove the pump for servicing. A LFS will have plastic clamps while Ace Hardware will have everything else you'll need. Be sure to use Teflon tape on the pipe thread and do not glue the standpipes inside the overflow box.

Also, be sure the top of the return pipe has a siphon break. Some companies drill the hole for you, but if not drill a hole at the bottom of the elbow and keep it clean.

NedFlounders · 05/08/2015, 05:48 AM

Ahh, thanks Cuzza. I edited the pic under the overflow so you can see it better. Pretty sure the holes are the same size. You can see the 2 threaded connections better. I do have a bulkhead attached to the vinyl tubing coming from the pump, i just have to attach it to the tank...i'm guessing it attaches underneath the pipe with no threads? That same pvc with no threads runs up the overflow and into the tank (the black knobby hose thing). What exactly is that?

CuzzA · 05/08/2015, 06:09 AM

Go back and read what I wrote. All three holes should have bulkheads. There should not be a bulkhead on the pump. The "black knobby hose thing" is called lockline. It allows you to adjust the direction of the return.

NedFlounders · 05/08/2015, 06:22 AM

Ok I think most of it makes sense. Thanks again.

I also added one more pic so you can see what I meant about the bulkhead on the tube from the pump.

CuzzA · 05/08/2015, 06:33 AM

Ok. I see what your saying. You're getting a little ahead of yourself. The first thing that gets installed are the bulkheads. Then start hooking up the plumbing to them.

And again, put a union directly on the pump. Think about what a pain it's going to be to try and take the pump out of the sump for cleaning. Constantly removing vinyl tubing is going to compromise the connection. It is designed to be installed once as once it is clamped it will form a memory around the barb. I promise you'll need to clean the pump every 3-6 months or flow will be substantially reduced.

Do it right once. Post pics of your progress and I'll help you along the way.

NedFlounders · 05/08/2015, 06:39 AM

Yeah I totally hear you on the union. I did that for my pump in my mixing station. I'm all about it doing right the first time so thanks a ton for your advice! Here's the full thing:

CuzzA · 05/08/2015, 06:47 AM

You're welcome. Nice tank and even cuter kid. Good luck. You'll get it right.

intyme · 05/08/2015, 07:04 AM

Thanks for the link!

CuzzA · 05/08/2015, 08:06 AM

You're welcome.

Stolireef · 05/08/2015, 09:59 AM

This is just an opinion but my understanding (and practical experience) is that you should not use Teflon tape on pvc threaded connections. You are better off with pvc sealant. It's a little messy to work with but it does a better job at sealing the connection and does not let you overtighten the connection.

Teflon tape is supposed to be used as a lubricant on metal threaded connections to allow you to sufficiently tighten them down.

Stolireef · 05/08/2015, 10:01 AM

This stuff works great.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rectorsea...3631/100201204

CuzzA · 05/08/2015, 10:26 AM

Yes. A lot of people use pipe sealant. Personally, I don't like the idea of a wet product that does not dry being in contact with my tank water. I know it states for potable use, but a couple wraps of Teflon tape have never failed me in the years I've been plumbing. There are solvents and voc's in the product. And potable water doesn't mean reef safe. Copper is used for potable water too. I'm not suggesting it's not safe. I just don't use it.

Over tightening fittings and using too much tape is usually where people have problems.

Just my personal preference. And even Spears has a video stating Teflon tape is just fine for PVC fittings.

Stolireef · 05/08/2015, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuzzA

Yes. A lot of people use pipe sealant. Personally, I don't like the idea of a wet product that does not dry being in contact with my tank water. I know it states for potable use, but a couple wraps of Teflon tape have never failed me in the years I've been plumbing. There are solvents and voc's in the product. And potable water doesn't mean reef safe. Copper is used for potable water too. I'm not suggesting it's not safe. I just don't use it.

Over tightening fittings and using too much tape is usually where people have problems.

Just my personal preference. And even Spears has a video stating Teflon tape is just fine for PVC fittings.

That's interesting about Spears. I've got to look that up. I've seen the over-tightening problem with pumps more than anything else. Their inputs tend to be a bit delicate and once you've overtightened, it's good bye hard plumbing on pump.

CuzzA · 05/08/2015, 12:54 PM

Stolireef · 05/08/2015, 03:05 PM

Then again, see Lasco's dos and don'ts...
http://www.lascofittings.com/threads
Proving once again that there are many ways to do things and no matter what I think, I'm probably wrong.

CuzzA · 05/08/2015, 04:52 PM

I don't think you're wrong. And I agree with the link you posted for obvious reasons.

Perhaps I worry too much about potential contaminants getting into my reef.

Stolireef · 05/08/2015, 06:36 PM

I'm always wrong. Just ask my teenage kids.

Oh, and sorry about the thread hijack. Back to our normally scheduled programming.

OP, it looks like you're well on your way with a nice setup. Ask lots of questions and I'm sure we'll all help out.

05/08/2015, 05:17 AM	#2
CuzzA Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 2,997	Looks like you're missing a bulkhead for the return pipe. (Can be purchased at most LFS) Get those pipes out of there and secure the bulkheads first. The gasket goes on the flange side of the bulkhead and the nut on the outside. What you have is a Herbie drain. http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-...method-basics/ Lose the grey spa flex pipe and cover over the filter sock section. Instead hard plumb with schedule 40 pvc both drains. You'll want the main full siphon to have a gate (best) or true union ball valve and the end of the pipe to terminate 1" or less below the water level in the sump. The emergency drain can go anywhere and would be best if it did not terminate below the water line so you can hear water crashing from it, indicating your full siphon has clogged. Also, it would be a very good idea to paint or seal any exposed plywood. Once plywood gets wet and/or over time the humidity in the stand starts to penetrate the exposed plywood and it will start to swell and separate. Also, your two drains should be the same size bulkhead. It doesn't look like that in the picture. In the first picture it appears the far right hole is smaller than the two left. If this is the case then that would be where your return goes. If they are all different sizes (which would be odd) then use the two largest holes for the drains and the largest of the two for the emergency. You're going to need threaded male adapters on all three bulkheads to make the connection under the tank. For the return you'll use "male pipe thread to barbed hose" and secure the hose with either plastic or stainless steel hose clamps. Put a union directly on the return pump so you can easily remove the pump for servicing. A LFS will have plastic clamps while Ace Hardware will have everything else you'll need. Be sure to use Teflon tape on the pipe thread and do not glue the standpipes inside the overflow box. Also, be sure the top of the return pipe has a siphon break. Some companies drill the hole for you, but if not drill a hole at the bottom of the elbow and keep it clean. Last edited by CuzzA; 05/08/2015 at 06:11 AM.

05/08/2015, 09:59 AM	#11
Stolireef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scottsdale AZ Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 5	This is just an opinion but my understanding (and practical experience) is that you should not use Teflon tape on pvc threaded connections. You are better off with pvc sealant. It's a little messy to work with but it does a better job at sealing the connection and does not let you overtighten the connection. Teflon tape is supposed to be used as a lubricant on metal threaded connections to allow you to sufficiently tighten them down. __________________ I want to burn twice as bright and half as long. Oh, and a full tank crash is just an excuse for a new build. Current Tank Info: 125 Rimless Leemar, Apex, Trigger 30 Elite Sump, Vertex 180i Skimmer, 2 X Gen4 Radion XR30W, BM Doser, 2xMP40WES, 2xTunze 6095, Sicce Syncra 4.0.

05/08/2015, 10:01 AM	#12
Stolireef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scottsdale AZ Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 5	This stuff works great. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rectorsea...3631/100201204 __________________ I want to burn twice as bright and half as long. Oh, and a full tank crash is just an excuse for a new build. Current Tank Info: 125 Rimless Leemar, Apex, Trigger 30 Elite Sump, Vertex 180i Skimmer, 2 X Gen4 Radion XR30W, BM Doser, 2xMP40WES, 2xTunze 6095, Sicce Syncra 4.0.

05/08/2015, 03:05 PM	#16
Stolireef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scottsdale AZ Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 5	Then again, see Lasco's dos and don'ts... http://www.lascofittings.com/threads Proving once again that there are many ways to do things and no matter what I think, I'm probably wrong. __________________ I want to burn twice as bright and half as long. Oh, and a full tank crash is just an excuse for a new build. Current Tank Info: 125 Rimless Leemar, Apex, Trigger 30 Elite Sump, Vertex 180i Skimmer, 2 X Gen4 Radion XR30W, BM Doser, 2xMP40WES, 2xTunze 6095, Sicce Syncra 4.0.

05/08/2015, 06:36 PM	#18
Stolireef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scottsdale AZ Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 5	I'm always wrong. Just ask my teenage kids. Oh, and sorry about the thread hijack. Back to our normally scheduled programming. OP, it looks like you're well on your way with a nice setup. Ask lots of questions and I'm sure we'll all help out. __________________ I want to burn twice as bright and half as long. Oh, and a full tank crash is just an excuse for a new build. Current Tank Info: 125 Rimless Leemar, Apex, Trigger 30 Elite Sump, Vertex 180i Skimmer, 2 X Gen4 Radion XR30W, BM Doser, 2xMP40WES, 2xTunze 6095, Sicce Syncra 4.0. Last edited by Stolireef; 05/08/2015 at 07:00 PM.

05/08/2015, 05:48 AM	#3
NedFlounders Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 239	Ahh, thanks Cuzza. I edited the pic under the overflow so you can see it better. Pretty sure the holes are the same size. You can see the 2 threaded connections better. I do have a bulkhead attached to the vinyl tubing coming from the pump, i just have to attach it to the tank...i'm guessing it attaches underneath the pipe with no threads? That same pvc with no threads runs up the overflow and into the tank (the black knobby hose thing). What exactly is that?

05/08/2015, 06:09 AM	#4
CuzzA Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 2,997	Go back and read what I wrote. All three holes should have bulkheads. There should not be a bulkhead on the pump. The "black knobby hose thing" is called lockline. It allows you to adjust the direction of the return.

05/08/2015, 06:33 AM	#6
CuzzA Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 2,997	Ok. I see what your saying. You're getting a little ahead of yourself. The first thing that gets installed are the bulkheads. Then start hooking up the plumbing to them. And again, put a union directly on the pump. Think about what a pain it's going to be to try and take the pump out of the sump for cleaning. Constantly removing vinyl tubing is going to compromise the connection. It is designed to be installed once as once it is clamped it will form a memory around the barb. I promise you'll need to clean the pump every 3-6 months or flow will be substantially reduced. Do it right once. Post pics of your progress and I'll help you along the way.

05/08/2015, 06:47 AM	#8
CuzzA Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 2,997	You're welcome. Nice tank and even cuter kid. Good luck. You'll get it right.

05/08/2015, 07:04 AM	#9
intyme Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Farmington Ny Posts: 854	Thanks for the link!

05/08/2015, 08:06 AM	#10
CuzzA Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 2,997	You're welcome.

05/08/2015, 10:26 AM	#13
CuzzA Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 2,997	Yes. A lot of people use pipe sealant. Personally, I don't like the idea of a wet product that does not dry being in contact with my tank water. I know it states for potable use, but a couple wraps of Teflon tape have never failed me in the years I've been plumbing. There are solvents and voc's in the product. And potable water doesn't mean reef safe. Copper is used for potable water too. I'm not suggesting it's not safe. I just don't use it. Over tightening fittings and using too much tape is usually where people have problems. Just my personal preference. And even Spears has a video stating Teflon tape is just fine for PVC fittings.

05/08/2015, 12:54 PM	#15
CuzzA Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 2,997

05/08/2015, 04:52 PM	#17
CuzzA Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 2,997	I don't think you're wrong. And I agree with the link you posted for obvious reasons. Perhaps I worry too much about potential contaminants getting into my reef.