Tank Cycling Help and Quarantine Tank

[isomorphic85]

Hey Guys,

first post here. I've searched countless threads on this site and others for tank cycling.

I'm currently cycling a Red Sea Max S650 .. 150 gallong tank 25 gallon sump.

It's been 2.5 weeks since water was added to the tank.

i've got 120 pounds of arab alive live reef sand and 160 lbs of live dry rock.

I haven't seen any ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate in the tank during water testings.

I'm using red sea test kits that are not new (not expired, checked this)

I've used RODI water and redsea coral pro salt.

Is this normal? I would have thought i would have seen at least ammonia by now

any thoughts on this are appreciated.

I also picked up a quarantine tank and am trying to figure out the correct way of doing this being both tanks are brand new.

I believe I need to wait until the main tank cycles completely, use the water from the main tank to fill the quarantine tank. At this point I could then add a fish or two to the quarantine tank , wait 4-5 weeks to make sure everything is good with the fish then add them to the main tank. Does this sound correct?

Thanks again for the help it's appreciated.

-Mike

[gone fishin]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074

The link may be of some use to. It is a book really with multiple topics. It is found at the top of this forum. The link has info on QT.

What did you use to start the cycle with? Was the rock you used fully cured?

[mystikal]

When I cycled my tank I used macbac to assist the cycling. You might need to get that.

Or I heard people sometime use pure ammonia to kick start the cycling, live fish, or a dead shrimp.

Good luck!

[IDreamOReefin]

What are you using as an ammonia source? Chunk of shrimp? Ghost feeding? Dosing?
Your QT procedure sounds about right. More could be added to the QT procedure like tank to tank transfer, preemptive treatment, sacrificing a chicken, training new additions on to new foods, etc. I believe you should do anything you can to have a good QT system. If you have room and resources do as much as you can (not really on the chicken thing). An ounce of prevention and all that.

[christopher7]

I'm new to SW too and I cycled by "ghost feeding." I added 3-4 food pellets daily until I saw the ammonia spike and fall off to 0. I kept that up until my ammonia tested at 0 for 5 days in a row. I read about this method somewhere on this forum but I can't seem to find it again.

^^the link that gonefishin posted has been invaluable so far

[smittysmith2]

I used a small piece of tilapia to initiate the cycle. I have done a 20 gallon water change. This brought the nitrates down, but they're still around 20. Also, where should pH be?

[isomorphic85]

Originally Posted by IDreamOReefin

What are you using as an ammonia source? Chunk of shrimp? Ghost feeding? Dosing?
Your QT procedure sounds about right. More could be added to the QT procedure like tank to tank transfer, preemptive treatment, sacrificing a chicken, training new additions on to new foods, etc. I believe you should do anything you can to have a good QT system. If you have room and resources do as much as you can (not really on the chicken thing). An ounce of prevention and all that.

I was told I shouldn't need to add anything as an ammonia source because of the live sand and rock. As things died off from this it would create ammonia. is this not true? Do I need to add something else to start the cycle? I also read that ghost feeding is bad because it adds phosphates which lead to algae growth?

[Azedenkae]

Originally Posted by isomorphic85

Hey Guys,

first post here. I've searched countless threads on this site and others for tank cycling.

I'm currently cycling a Red Sea Max S650 .. 150 gallong tank 25 gallon sump.

It's been 2.5 weeks since water was added to the tank.

i've got 120 pounds of arab alive live reef sand and 160 lbs of live dry rock.

I haven't seen any ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate in the tank during water testings.

I'm using red sea test kits that are not new (not expired, checked this)

I've used RODI water and redsea coral pro salt.

Is this normal? I would have thought i would have seen at least ammonia by now

any thoughts on this are appreciated.

I also picked up a quarantine tank and am trying to figure out the correct way of doing this being both tanks are brand new.

I believe I need to wait until the main tank cycles completely, use the water from the main tank to fill the quarantine tank. At this point I could then add a fish or two to the quarantine tank , wait 4-5 weeks to make sure everything is good with the fish then add them to the main tank. Does this sound correct?

Thanks again for the help it's appreciated.

-Mike

Hey mate, just a quick note, but it's actually not necessarily the case to see ammonia, nitrite or nitrate to spike. At all. Or in that turn either. They are common myths that seem to pervade.

Starting with live rock, one may not even see a cycle at all. Or that the live sand you start of with may have one type of bacteria in more abundance than others from the getgo, for example.

Of course, you used er... dry rock, is that right? So I doubt that's the case.

How did you cycle your tank by the way? Please don't tell me you just added water and do nothing. That won't really... do anything, unless you have a bunch of organic waste from decomposing matter. Which starting with live sand and dry rock (right?), you won't really see.

Actually reading further posts, I am a bit confused.

But anyways, if you did start with live rock, but with decomposing matter, then it is true you may not need to add a source of organics. However if the matter decomposes slowly, any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate produced may be being converted as it goes along, so you pick up nothing.

Long story short, really, like others said, just test your filtrative capacity and see what is going on in your aquarium.

[Jdavis8824]

If your using dry rock then there might not be any die off. Everything has already died and will not produce ammonia. I had the same problem and after 3 weeks I no spikes. I used live sand and dry rock and couldn't get no spikes even with the live sand. So I added a raw piece of shrimp from supermarket whole. Check your ammonia levels once to twice a day and let it raise to at least 2ppm, you can go more but not too much or you will need a big water change. After that it should take anywhere from 1-2 weeks for you to get nitrate readings and wait til they start to go down and then it's cycled. Do a water change, at least 50% and test nitrates again. Nitrates should read 0. Then your ready to add live stock. Remember a couple at a time so your system can keep up. And since your using dry rock you can wait a little bit for clean up crew.

[Jdavis8824]

Make sure you take out shrimp after ammonia gets to desired level. Forgot to add that

[Jdavis8824]

Azedenkae could be right too. The live sand could have bacteria in it which is eating up what little ammonia dry rock or sand might have. I still recommend doing what I said though. You will be creating more bacteria which in turn will make it less stressful for your fish. Best to make sure you have enough bacteria to keep up with what you plan to add to your aquarium.

[IDreamOReefin]

Originally Posted by isomorphic85

I was told I shouldn't need to add anything as an ammonia source because of the live sand and rock. As things died off from this it would create ammonia. is this not true? Do I need to add something else to start the cycle? I also read that ghost feeding is bad because it adds phosphates which lead to algae growth?

Die off will provide the needed ammonia. This is dependent on how much life was on the rock, how the rock was shipped, and how much of it died. Some people only use dry rock to start with and so nothing really to die off. When I got my rock from off the Florida coast it shipped across country. There was enough life to die off and cycle, and still import a ton of cool life forms. I'm not so sure about sand though, unless it's used sand the only thing to die or rot is bacteria. That would cycle, but it would take a lot more time.

[Jdavis8824]

As far as a quarantine tank all you need is a 10-30g tank with a sponge filter or power filter, a airstone and a heater. You don't need to cycle it but you will have to do frequent water changes. 2-3 times a week and at least 20%. If you cycle it then water changes won't have to be as much. A ammonia badge is a good idea as well. Oh yea and a good heater. Had two break on me

[gone fishin]

OP to help the situation what type of rock did you use. Live dry rock is meaningless.

Was the rock dry, if so it is dead and needs to be cycled with the tank. Depending on how dirty the rock is/was you may or may not get some ammonia from it. In this case more than likely you will need to add an ammonia source to start a cycle.

If the rock was wet then it may be live or may not be. If this is the case then some of the previous posts would apply.

[isomorphic85]

Originally Posted by Jdavis8824

If your using dry rock then there might not be any die off. Everything has already died and will not produce ammonia. I had the same problem and after 3 weeks I no spikes. I used live sand and dry rock and couldn't get no spikes even with the live sand. So I added a raw piece of shrimp from supermarket whole. Check your ammonia levels once to twice a day and let it raise to at least 2ppm, you can go more but not too much or you will need a big water change. After that it should take anywhere from 1-2 weeks for you to get nitrate readings and wait til they start to go down and then it's cycled. Do a water change, at least 50% and test nitrates again. Nitrates should read 0. Then your ready to add live stock. Remember a couple at a time so your system can keep up. And since your using dry rock you can wait a little bit for clean up crew.

Thanks... I guess i was given false information about the live sand and dry live rock. I was originally told that the live sand and dry live rock would cycle the tank on it's own. What do you guy's feel is the best thing to add at this point to start the cycle? A piece of shrimp worked well for you? I have frozen shrimp (like for shrimp cocktail) in the freezer that are precooked. Will this suffice by adding a piece of this into the tank? or does it need to be raw?

I also have biospira that i can add to the tank which is supposed to help cycle but i don't believe it adds the ammonia portion i believe it just adds the nitrite bacteria?

thanks again guys

[Azedenkae]

Originally Posted by isomorphic85

Thanks... I guess i was given false information about the live sand and dry live rock. I was originally told that the live sand and dry live rock would cycle the tank on it's own. What do you guy's feel is the best thing to add at this point to start the cycle? A piece of shrimp worked well for you? I have frozen shrimp (like for shrimp cocktail) in the freezer that are precooked. Will this suffice by adding a piece of this into the tank? or does it need to be raw?

I also have biospira that i can add to the tank which is supposed to help cycle but i don't believe it adds the ammonia portion i believe it just adds the nitrite bacteria?

thanks again guys

Okay firstly can you please just call it 'dry rock'. Or 'base rock' is fine too (it's actually preferable). 'dry live rock' is very confusing, as it conjures up two separate images.

A shrimp is fine. Precooked is best. I prefer to have a mix of seafood, and blend it all up nicely before addition. So things just get mixed throughout the water (and tank), rather than sitting in one place. And you won't need to pick anything out either, once you've added the blended mix it, that's it.

And yes, Biospira just adds bacteria.

If you want to, read through my tank journal, the first few posts go through how I cycled my aquarium and just follow that. You can see too that ammonia, nitrite and nitrate all sort of spiked, rather than one after the other. What you see with your parameters may be the same or different, but anyways it doesn't quite matter.

[Jdavis8824]

Yes that did work for me. Live dry rock is a good thing to use as you won't get any hitch hikers, good or bad. It will however take a few months depending on your light to color up. Mine has been set up for six months now and still isn't colored like live rock yet but it is getting there. That's why I said cuc isn't nessary yet. They won't have much to eat. But my dry rock is turning purple green and brown now so it will work. I'm not sure about pre cooked shrimp. I used a raw piece that I got from the deli at publix. And keep in mind you will get different types of aglae blooms after a couple of months after cycling. Just add cuc then let the blooms cycle and they will go away on there own. Hermits and snails are best to add at that point. I have blue hermits and trochus snails. Start off with smaller amounts of them because again your using dry rock. Then when you see more aglae after the blooms subside then add more.

[Jdavis8824]

Your right I wondered why people called it live dry rock too. That's what the LFS called it when I bought it but I agree it's just dry rock

[isomorphic85]

Originally Posted by Azedenkae

Okay firstly can you please just call it 'dry rock'. Or 'base rock' is fine too (it's actually preferable). 'dry live rock' is very confusing, as it conjures up two separate images.

A shrimp is fine. Precooked is best. I prefer to have a mix of seafood, and blend it all up nicely before addition. So things just get mixed throughout the water (and tank), rather than sitting in one place. And you won't need to pick anything out either, once you've added the blended mix it, that's it.

And yes, Biospira just adds bacteria.

If you want to, read through my tank journal, the first few posts go through how I cycled my aquarium and just follow that. You can see too that ammonia, nitrite and nitrate all sort of spiked, rather than one after the other. What you see with your parameters may be the same or different, but anyways it doesn't quite matter.

Got it... sorry for the confusion

Here is the rock I used http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-re...live-rock.html

I will add the shrimp now.

Thanks again for the advice everyone. I apologize for the newb questions here.

[IDreamOReefin]

I like the ghost feeding method myself. IMO, Even if it imports some phosphate, you are going to have to deal with phos. sometime anyway so why worry about it. If you go the shrimp route, be sure to put the shrimp in somthing to make removing it, as it falls apart, easier.

[juscalmej]

I guess I used a blended method. I added Biospera and also dosed pure ammonia to ensure the tank was cycled.

[isomorphic85]

suggestions on where to get pure ammonia?

[CStrickland]

This dry rock thing is a peeve of mine. There are really 3 types of rock, and they are not named consistently among sellers. It's annoying cause it makes a diff when you are cycling a tank. This is how it seems to break out:

1) Rock that is mined from the ground where reefs used to be, pale tan color all over and a very clean look. "Base rock" "dry rock" sometimes "dry live rock"
2) Rock that is taken from the ocean, dried out and cleaned (thoroughness varies), still pale but you can tell something lived on it if there is color variation or dead barnacles and stuff. "Dry rock" "dry live rock"
3) Rock that has life on it "live rock" sold moist or in water.

1 and 2 are often sold by the same names, but 2 has some dead stuff that will start the cycle since it is just cleaned up and dried to make it cheaper to ship and kill hitchikers, where 1 doesn't cause it hasn't been in the ocean for many years. Also, some sellers clean or cure better than others. If you start with 1, there is no food source in the tank.

[isomorphic85]

Yeah I get it now....the name and they way they sell it is very misleading

[uncleL]

Hey There! I always use Dr Tim's bacteria to cycle my tanks that I setup and add 2 clowns in the first 24hrs. Then I start adding 5lbs of live rock after a week.