Light fixture hung in ceiling fell in tank

[mbrady]

Has this ever happen to you. I have been researching how to hang my new ATI 6X54sunpower fixture.
I want to use two 3/16 toggle bolts directly into the Sheetrock.
ie not secured into a stud
There are some who warn about the fixture pulling out of ceiling and falling into the tank. I was wondering just how often this happens

[moondoggy4]

I have my light suspended with toogle type bolts in the drywall as well as my 60'' TV on the wall, my light is heavy dual MH/4 T-5s 48''.

[moondoggy4]

http://www.amazon.com/TOGGLER-SNAPTO...16+toggle+bolt I have used these and I purchased them from Lowes they all different sizes.

[Vinny Kreyling]

A safer way would be to use a long piece of wood painted to match the ceiling,
screwed into the beams & mount the fixture to it.

[ericarenee]

Originally Posted by moondoggy4

http://www.amazon.com/TOGGLER-SNAPTO...16+toggle+bolt I have used these and I purchased them from Lowes they all different sizes.

These are the way to go... Those expanding anchors are the ones that always fail.. Just be sure to DRILL A Clean hole in the ceiling not poke it with a screwdriver or drywall saw as doing this weakens the gypsum and causes it to blow out on the upper side giving you less drywall for the anchor to hold on to..

[kevin_e]

Make sure you cover your tank WELL before doing this. I covered mine but still inadvertently got some gypsum in the tank. My pH dropped into the 7.2s and before I could figure out why my SPS were STNing.

[rgulrich]

What Vinny said. Why even risk it? Put a nice piece of oak or cherry up there, something to match the rest of the room, trim, or ceiling if you want or stain/paint to match the stand, and hang the light fixture from the wood. Worked and looked great with red oak and a linear light mover for a 250W halide pendant a few years ago.

[moondoggy4]

Originally Posted by ericarenee

These are the way to go... Those expanding anchors are the ones that always fail.. Just be sure to DRILL A Clean hole in the ceiling not poke it with a screwdriver or drywall saw as doing this weakens the gypsum and causes it to blow out on the upper side giving you less drywall for the anchor to hold on to..

I used a wood drill bit, not metal, it made a perfect hole.

[hobbzz]

Originally Posted by Vinny Kreyling

A safer way would be to use a long piece of wood painted to match the ceiling,
screwed into the beams & mount the fixture to it.

This is what I would also recommend.

[mcgyvr]

Any expanding drywall anchor works just fine when used according to its load rating....regular toggles can support a light just fine

[Duke4life]

Originally Posted by Vinny Kreyling

A safer way would be to use a long piece of wood painted to match the ceiling,
screwed into the beams & mount the fixture to it.

++++
The others mentioned work, and work well. If you want total piece of mind do what Vinny said. Light crashing into the top or through the tank I think would be 1 of our biggest fears. It is here

[mbrady]

Any other thoughts?
There must be actual cases of theses toggle bolts pulling lose and the light fixtures falling into the tank or Is the believe of theses toggle bolts faailing just not bases on actual reported accidents but simply on the fear of what may happen

[lpsouth1978]

Originally Posted by mbrady

Any other thoughts?
There must be actual cases of theses toggle bolts pulling lose and the light fixtures falling into the tank or Is the believe of theses toggle bolts faailing just not bases on actual reported accidents but simply on the fear of what may happen

I will happily admit that I do not have any evidence of the dry wall toggles failing. I simply WILL NOT risk it! We have a 300g tank and have $10,000+ invested in it so far (just rock sand and water at this point) and I am not willing to risk my light falling in the tank some day. I have steel angle bolted to ceiling joists and then the light hung from those. Why do it half @ss and take the risk?

[Dr Colliebreath]

I screwed a piece of poplar painted to match the ceiling into the beams and hung the light from the wood, as others have said. I don't see any reason to take the risk with toggle bolts or a weak spot in the drywall.

The wood-to-beam approach is easy and strong. I ran a router around the edges of the wood.

[davocean]

I'm a woodworker, so I'm more prone to rely on lumber more than I am on drywall, especially on a load pulling down from ceilling, especially when it's electrical above water, and even more so when there is life that could be affected.
drywall anchors are supposed to carry a pretty good load, I trust them more on a vertical mount, than ceilings, and your ceiling would need to be sound, as in never had a roof leak or patchwork.
So I personally would do something decorative in lumber.
I happen to have this pic saved from posting in lounge and just for giggles I'll throw it up here, a floating shelf I did that has a motorized cable pulley.
probably more than what you are looking for though.

[BigJohnny]

Yea I think the biggest thing here is whether you can guarantee your drywall is sound. If it is and you install it properly using the toggle bolts in the ATI hanging kit, it will work. Otherwise ATI wouldn't include them. They are obviously a reputable company. I am actually in a similar boat in that I have the 36" 6X39W fixture and do not have joists with proper spacing to center the fixture on my tank. Mounting a board up there would look hideous (no matter how you dress it up) because it won't be centered over the tank either (even though the light would be) I have plaster walls and ceilings, with brick exterior wall behind the plaster behind my tank, so toggle bolts from the back wall won't work. Don't know what to do! May just build a conduit rack unfortunately

[rgulrich]

Um...why wouldn't you center the board over the tank? Yep, that would look a bit out of feng shui - that's why most of us that have had to hang heavy halide systems from the ceiling centered the finished wooden support over the aquarium but still drilled the screw mounts into the joists. It doesn't matter where the screws are, it matters where the wood is and that the light fixture is adequately supported.

Now, if you really want to work on it and have access to the ceiling from above, go ahead and center a lift mounted across the joists up top so you can even raise and lower the lights with a remote control and only have two little cable holes (obviously carefully placed with a plumb line to be centered over the desired location for the light fixture) to deal with.

[BigJohnny]

Originally Posted by rgulrich

Um...why wouldn't you center the board over the tank? Yep, that would look a bit out of feng shui - that's why most of us that have had to hang heavy halide systems from the ceiling centered the finished wooden support over the aquarium but still drilled the screw mounts into the joists. It doesn't matter where the screws are, it matters where the wood is and that the light fixture is adequately supported.

Now, if you really want to work on it and have access to the ceiling from above, go ahead and center a lift mounted across the joists up top so you can even raise and lower the lights with a remote control and only have two little cable holes (obviously carefully placed with a plumb line to be centered over the desired location for the light fixture) to deal with.

If the joists aren't centered over the tank, then nailing a board to them wouldn't be centered, unless you do what you just said about centering the board but not centering the screws! Haha. Something I didn't even consider because I assumed that would compromise stability.

Good call, my next problem.......actually finding the joists in my lathe n plaster ceiling! Got an epic stud finder and accomplished nothing in normal and deep sense modes. Don't really feel like drilling test holes everywhere and risk tearing into wiring/venting/etc...... I've heard of some people utilizing neodymium magnets to find where the lathes were nailed into the joists however if you have any other metal up there that's useless. Thoughts?

[Tweaked]

used toggles alone for my Cebu sun which must weigh about 55lbs easy. If you use the toggles correctly your good IMO.

[BigJohnny]

Originally Posted by Tweaked

used toggles alone for my Cebu sun which must weigh about 55lbs easy. If you use the toggles correctly your good IMO.

I'm just not comfortable as I have old lathe n plaster ceilings rather than drywall. I also have no idea of the condition below (or in this case above) the surface. Toggle bolts would work if installed properly on perfect condition drywall, but if it has been patched/moisture absorbed/water damage etc it's a risk. Thanks though! My fixture only weighs 17-25 lbs but still scares me.

[strikerhawk01]

toggles will work just fine. no need to go all out with adding wood just to hang a light little light fixture. 2 toggle bolts can hold an easy 15 - 20 pounds dead weight.
If however you wanted to go the wood route you simple center it over the tank and put the screws wherever the studs are.. However, I would make the wood as long as the tank is that way gives you more options for upgraded lights later

[rgulrich]

Had popcorn ceilings in S. AZ, and had to hold a sheet of cardboard up to use a stud finder. A piece about the thickness of a cereal box and use the "deep" setting on the stud finder. Not sure if it would work with lath and plaster ceilings, but might be worth a try.

Another thing I have to ask if it's possible you have metal lath such as diamond mesh expanded metal or rib lath (a combination of expanded metal and ribs for stiffening). There is also woven wire lath which is usually 17ga. 1.5" mesh or 20ga 1" mesh. I'm no expert on these (although here in MD it's actually pretty common to find homes dating back a few hundred years, let alone early-mid 1900's), and I'm not sure what kind of stress the lath can handle. If there's a metal lath, that doesn't make finding the trusses any easier, I apologize.

Hope this helps.

[Tweaked]

Originally Posted by BigJohnny

I'm just not comfortable as I have old lathe n plaster ceilings rather than drywall. I also have no idea of the condition below (or in this case above) the surface. Toggle bolts would work if installed properly on perfect condition drywall, but if it has been patched/moisture absorbed/water damage etc it's a risk. Thanks though! My fixture only weighs 17-25 lbs but still scares me.

I went with 2 per run so the weight is displaced. However, toggles are fine when used correctly.

[BigJohnny]

Originally Posted by Tweaked

I went with 2 per run so the weight is displaced. However, toggles are fine when used correctly.

Right they are fine when used correctly on sound drywall. the drywall condition is key, otherwise you'll wind up with big holes in your ceiling and dead fish

[KingTriton1]

Cut out part of the drywall between the joist and add a 2x4-6 between them then re-patch. its very easy and cheap to do. Lowes sells the individual squares so you don't have to buy the whole sheetrock board. They make these for this particular purpose. Do it right the first time because after every option has been exhausted your alway going to end up doing it anyway!