Tampa Bay Saltwater Live Rock 2.1 And Pests

[AugustWest]

Really considering trying some of this Aquacultured Live Rock 2.1 for my new 93 Cube setup.

Any tips on getting rid of unwanted hitchhikers like Gorilla crabs and Mantis shrimp ( the 2 most common from what I read ) before they can cause any problems ? Also, are Aiptasia or Majanos common also? Maybe run the rock in a rubber made with a heater and a power head for a couple of weeks and look for unwanted hitchhikers?

My last tank was started with 100% dry rock and honestly was pretty boring and never had much diversity. Took a long time to look decent and eventually leached PO4 on me.

Want to go with a slightly minimalist approach to the aquascape this time. Any suggestions on how many pounds to order? I was thinking about 60 lbs or so in a 30"x30"x24"H 93 Gallon. Too little?

[KingTriton1]

Most common liverock pest to me is unwanted algae. I did exactly what you are planning to do except I did it for 2 months. Only 20lbs and still didn't work. Live rock diversity is over rated imo.

[ArmanS]

I got TBS Rock, the package. I would recommend if you have a 93g display then get a package that is 1/2 the size of your display tank. About 50-60lbs of live rock is all you need if you want a minimalist look.

Regarding hitchikers, you will get tons of good and bad. When your putting the rock in I would look at them carefully for Gorilla Crabs and Mantis Shrimp, I got 1 Mantis and over 10 Gorilla Crabs and still have a few that I am trying to catch.

Having said that, TBS Live Rock is the best rock you can get hands down!

[codyreed29]

Lol just get yourself a couple clear Rubbermaids or small tanks grab a ten gallon and put pieces of the rock into the tank. Grab a suction cup clip or veggie clip and put a piece of table shrimp.

Watch the tank for the crabs and mantis to go and eat the shrimp then catch them.

Once you have done these rocks put them in a rubbermaid. Conine until you have done all the rock 7 to 10 pounds at a time.

Note put the clip at the bottom of the tank so that the crabs can get to it or else they will just stay on the rocks.

I put a shrimp in my tank once a week I get my hermits emeralds cleaner and peppermint shrimps coming to it to have a little snack.

[AugustWest]

Yeah, it seems pretty clear they have the best Live Rock. Just not sure the benefits out weigh the risk. 10 Gorilla crabs and you still have more ? Not sure I want to deal with that! Thanks for your input.

[AugustWest]

Cody, it looks like you posted while I was typing. That sounds like a good idea. I did have a Gorilla crab a couple of years ago and i caught him after about 20 minutes with an old jelly jar and a piece of shrimp.

[ArmanS]

It's well worth it! The life that comes on the rock is amazing.

[toothybugs]

With 10 Gorillas you could have one interesting sump

[CuzzA]

So, I live a few miles from the aquaculture site and can offer this...

Algae will die in a low nutrient environment. Manual removal would be wise to speed up the process.

As far as stone or gorilla crabs you can make a mini crab pot similar to what we use to catch stone crabs. Below is a picture of what a standard stone crab pot looks like.

Here's a little tutorial on how to build one to scale.

Items needed:

• Plastic gutter guard
• Small zip ties
• PVC pipe (Size depends on largest crab in system)
• 2 Large rubber bands
• 1 Small rubber band
• Fishing line
• Bobber or piece of styrofoam
• Small rock
• Raw shrimp

Assembly:

• Cut 5 equal squares of plastic gutter guard. The bigger the better.
  
• Cut 1 side slighlty larger for the lid.
  
• Put the small rubberband on the bottom side. This will hold the shrimp in place.
  
• Attach the 5 sides using zip ties to hold the sides together. Don't attach the top lid yet.
  
• Cut a hole in the lid to fit the piece of PVC pipe.
  
• Drill a few holes in the pipe large enough to accommodate the zip ties. Zip tie the pipe to the lid so that it extends down in the pot.
  
• Attach the lid to the box with zip ties on one side only. This will act as a hinge.
  
• Attach a length of fishing line to the pot and the bobber or styrofoam to the other side for easy retrieval.
  
• Bait the mini pot with the shrimp and place a small rock in the pot to keep it in one place.
  
• Wrap the remaining two larger rubberband around the entire pot over the lid to keep the crabs from escaping.
  
• Set your pot and wait.

While you wait, get yourself a beer and put Deadliest Catch on the TV.

There are other simpler crab trapping techniques like the glass jar, but they're not as cool as this one.

* If the crabs are small enough to fit through the gutter guard you can wrap the trap with common patio screen.

[d2mini]

I've set up several tanks with The Package and it wouldn't do it any other way.
The only pests I've ever had were mantis and gorilla crabs, neither a big deal. And once i had a big stone crab. He took a while to get, but i got him eventually.
The best tool I have is a 24" long pair of stainless steel forceps.
Here's a pic... ignore the starfish... he's actually in the tank. The pic was a coincidental optical illusion.




I use these to nab anything I see crawling around the rock that I don't want.
Things get hungry and have to come out for food, so that's your chance.
Carefully lower the forceps, stay really still, let them get comfy and then SNAP! Gotcha!
May take a few tries, you may even have to try it over multiple days, but have patience and you'll eventually get them.
Meanwhile, don't fret so much. The stories you hear are generally blown way out of proportion. The mantis are cool to watch and they don't really do any damage. They forage for leftover food, maybe go after a snail or crab but those are cheap to replace anyway.
Same with gorillas. Unless they get really big they are pretty harmless.

And algae? NEVER had a problem. Free food for the fish and it dwindles fairly quickly.

[KingTriton1]

Originally Posted by CuzzA

Algae will die in a low nutrient environment. Manual removal would be wise to speed up the process.

I do agree, but this is not always the case with some types of algae. The algae I received on my rock was bubble algae, which manual removal is not so easy (even though some say it is) nor is it the best course of action in many cases . The worst part is when you start to aquascape and realize you just busted a whole group of them . This type of algae can be controlled , but not eliminated by lower nutrients from my experience.

That said if I were to ever buy live rock again it would only be from Richard at TBS. Great to deal with.

[MBMAX]

I am too considering to seed my 200gl with some TBS live rock . All I have right now is dry rock.
But since I want a SPS dominated tank , I am concerned about all these pets that I have never deal before.( at least most of them).
Have anyone keep a Successful SPS tank with this live rock?

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by MBMAX

I am too considering to seed my 200gl with some TBS live rock . All I have right now is dry rock.
But since I want a SPS dominated tank , I am concerned about all these pets that I have never deal before.( at least most of them).
Have anyone keep a Successful SPS tank with this live rock?

Yes my tank is SPS dominant.
I have all kinds of critters in it.
You will have a more successful tank with quality live rock than dry imho. At least the first year or two.
It just makes it so much easier and more stable/mature.

[CuzzA]

Also it's important to note Gulf waters off Tampa Bay don't have the same pests that are detrimental to common Indo Pacific corals we commonly buy or trade. There's no red bugs, aefw, monti nudis, aiptasia, etc. I would be more concerned with the pests you get from buying corals. A few crabs and mantis shrimp are nothing compared to an aefw invasion.

[pmcarbrey]

Originally Posted by CuzzA

Also it's important to note Gulf waters off Tampa Bay don't have the same pests that are detrimental to common Indo Pacific corals we commonly buy or trade. There's no red bugs, aefw, monti nudis, aiptasia, etc. I would be more concerned with the pests you get from buying corals. A few crabs and mantis shrimp are nothing compared to an aefw invasion.

This x1000. A few crabs might kill a couple corals before you get them if you're unlucky. Aefw may kill your entire tank before you eradicate them

[KingTriton1]

Originally Posted by CuzzA

Also it's important to note Gulf waters off Tampa Bay don't have the same pests that are detrimental to common Indo Pacific corals we commonly buy or trade. There's no red bugs, aefw, monti nudis, aiptasia, etc. I would be more concerned with the pests you get from buying corals. A few crabs and mantis shrimp are nothing compared to an aefw invasion.

Wow, thats interesting. I did not know that.

[smatter]

I say diversity is underrated and the "risk" is well worth it. I can hear a little mantis in my new 2.1 rock but I'm not worried, in fact, I look forward to getting a lucky glimpse of him. If he gets naughty he is trigger food.

[KingTriton1]

What benefit will this diversity bring exactly?

[smatter]

Originally Posted by KingTriton1

What benefit will this diversity bring exactly?

A reef tank rather than a coral display, and just general coolness if you want a more scientific explanation.

Nice avatar. Chief Brody needs to get to the Carolinas!

[AugustWest]

Originally Posted by CuzzA

Also it's important to note Gulf waters off Tampa Bay don't have the same pests that are detrimental to common Indo Pacific corals we commonly buy or trade. There's no red bugs, aefw, monti nudis, aiptasia, etc. I would be more concerned with the pests you get from buying corals. A few crabs and mantis shrimp are nothing compared to an aefw invasion.

Good points. What about Majanos? Seems like Gorilla crabs and Mantis shrimp are pretty much a guarantee, I wonder why they're so plentiful ?

[CuzzA]

Originally Posted by KingTriton1

What benefit will this diversity bring exactly?

My feelings on bio diversity are it keeps everything in balance. In the wild everything eats everything. Every life form is kept in check. With our tanks we don't have that luxury. If left unchecked something in your tank would dominate and eliminate most or all of what's in it. Aside from that, having a lot of cool critters makes for a more interesting reef. My current tank started out all dry and it got boring pretty quick. I've been adding all sorts of small life recently and the tank is just that much more alive.

Originally Posted by AugustWest

Good points. What about Majanos? Seems like Gorilla crabs and Mantis shrimp are pretty much a guarantee, I wonder why they're so plentiful ?

Manjanos, yes. Fortunately they are much easier to kill and eradicate or even control if you happen to have some pretty ones. I have these electric green manjanos in my frag tank that I won't kill because they look so awesome. Like neon green mini bubble tip anemones.

I can't explain for sure why there are so many mantis shrimp and crabs other than the fact there are a lot of crabs in the ocean and places to hide. Lol. After watching a season of Deadliest Catch you'd think they caught all of the crabs, but there are so many. Same deal here. During stone crab season the commercial fisherman are bringing in boat load after boat load. Also, they're likely so abundant simply because they have excellent defense and hiding skills. You do not want to get your fingers caught between an adult stone crab's claw.

[d2mini]

I think in all the TBS tanks I've set up I've seen maybe two or three clear/glass anemone or something.
One even moved around the tank for a while! Don't recall ever seeing Majano.
And nothing was ever an infestation so I'm thinking whatever they were, there were not the "pests" we typically see people fighting.

[liverock]

Originally Posted by d2mini

I think in all the TBS tanks I've set up I've seen maybe two or three clear/glass anemone or something.
One even moved around the tank for a while! Don't recall ever seeing Majano.
And nothing was ever an infestation so I'm thinking whatever they were, there were not the "pests" we typically see people fighting.

Majano is an indo pacific type of anemone...they do not occur here in the Gulf of Mexico....and we don't have the invasive type of aptasia anemones here either....they are also indo-pacific species.

Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com

[CuzzA]

My mistake. Perhaps I'm confusing them with a different hitchhiker anenome.

[liverock]

Originally Posted by CuzzA

My mistake. Perhaps I'm confusing them with a different hitchhiker anemone.

That happens a lot...is pretty much a knee jerk reaction as you read so much about them on the net....There are many hitch hiker anemones that seem to originate on the specimen corals that folks buy for their tanks...from what I have seen at the wholesalers holding facilities....most likely why the invasive type aptasia are seen in the hobby so much.


CuzzA ...got that C-card yet?

Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com