Restarting a dead tank, cycling questions

ilykpie · 07/12/2015, 11:33 PM

Hi All,

Just some background before I ask my questions...

Long story short, we attempted to start a FOWLR tank quite a few years ago, but due to our set up (apparently the dude who originally set our tank up gave us all the wrong equipment) and lack of knowledge it failed. My parents recently decided to start up again and asked a local fish store to essentially upgrade our set up.

From what I can see, we have kept the same water in the tank from the failed tank, the same live rock (what used to be anyway) and the same substrate which looks like crushed coral. I've spoken to my dad and he says we're waiting 2 weeks until we bring a sample of our water to the local fish store for testing. So from this, I assume we're in the process of cycling the tank. Only after my parents got our new set-up installed, I started doing a lot of research into reef tanks so it doesn't fail again (wasn't aware they had plans to reboot)

Now I understand cycling the tank is to basically encourage the growth of bacterial colonies and there are several ways of doing this such as live rock, live sand, fish food, prawn, etc. I don't believe we've added anything into the tank nor do I believe the people from the local fish store added anything into our tank either.

So:
- How long does live rock stay live?
- Will the tank cycle effectively if we haven't added anything with new bacteria?
- If I want to change the substrate to a fine sand like sugar sand or something, do I need to wait until the cycle is finished or can I change it during the cycle?

Thanks in advanced!

tkeracer619 · 07/12/2015, 11:42 PM

First off... welcome to Reef Central! Thanks for researching your tank, I am sure it's future inhabitants will appreciate it

So the tank sat stagnant for years?

Can you post some pics?

Live rock needs a food source and a few conditions to stay live. I assume you saw a lot of evaporation over those years if it is in fact the same water.

Was copper ever used in the tank?

Crushed coral isn't ideal for substrate. Since there is nothing in the tank for starters I would drain the tank and suck the crushed coral out. Refill the tank with fresh made RODI saltwater. Then add the live sand. I would also add a raw shrimp from the supermarket seafood department.

This will certainly get a cycle going and get your water chemistry on track.

Who knows what is going on with the rock at this point but I assume if the tank made it years someone was topping it up. If that is the case than maybe the rock still has some life left. It is "live" from bacteria and bacteria does need food.

ilykpie · 07/13/2015, 03:13 AM

Sump, Skimmer & Filter

http://i.imgur.com/zYU6Aq8.jpg

Light Setup

http://i.imgur.com/oSklLgh.jpg

Front shot, haven't messed around with the light settings.. so really blue atm.

http://i.imgur.com/ttSHM0e.jpg

Sorry for the quality of the pics, taken with my iPhone.

The tank has been stagnant for years including the rock and water.
I don't believe copper was used in the tank.
I'm not sure what the local fish shop is trying to achieve, as far as I can see nothing has been added.

I'm leaning towards the method you recommended as I'll understand what's going on if I'm in control.

ilykpie · 07/13/2015, 03:20 AM

Hi, thanks for the fast reply!

Here are pics of the set-up

Sump, Skimmer & Filter

http://i.imgur.com/zYU6Aq8.jpg

Light Setup

http://i.imgur.com/oSklLgh.jpg

Front shot, haven't messed around with the light settings.. using the default. Photo was taken at its brightest point.

http://i.imgur.com/ttSHM0e.jpg

Sorry for the quality of the pics, taken with my iPhone.

The tank has been stagnant for years including the rock and water.
I don't believe copper was used in the tank.
I'm not sure what the local fish shop is trying to achieve, as far as I can see nothing has been added.

I'm leaning towards the method you recommended as I'll understand what's going on if I'm in control.

gone fishin · 07/13/2015, 07:30 AM

I think I would pull the crushed coral and replace with some aragonite sand. The crushed coral can hold detritus making things a bit more difficult than they need to be. Also, I think I would start out with some new water. Then toss in the deli shrimp.

I would also suggest getting a set of tests, API kits are fine for cycling. Makes life easier when you can do your own testing.

The link may be of some use to you. It has multiple topics. Good luck

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074

ericarenee · 07/13/2015, 11:22 AM

along with everything above i would also be weary of Nutrient levels in that live rock. If it starts leaching phosphates and nitrates later on this can become a serious issue. OF course depending on what you keep in there and the amount of water changes you intend on doing..

07/12/2015, 11:33 PM	#1
ilykpie Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 8	Restarting a dead tank, cycling questions Hi All, Just some background before I ask my questions... Long story short, we attempted to start a FOWLR tank quite a few years ago, but due to our set up (apparently the dude who originally set our tank up gave us all the wrong equipment) and lack of knowledge it failed. My parents recently decided to start up again and asked a local fish store to essentially upgrade our set up. From what I can see, we have kept the same water in the tank from the failed tank, the same live rock (what used to be anyway) and the same substrate which looks like crushed coral. I've spoken to my dad and he says we're waiting 2 weeks until we bring a sample of our water to the local fish store for testing. So from this, I assume we're in the process of cycling the tank. Only after my parents got our new set-up installed, I started doing a lot of research into reef tanks so it doesn't fail again (wasn't aware they had plans to reboot) Now I understand cycling the tank is to basically encourage the growth of bacterial colonies and there are several ways of doing this such as live rock, live sand, fish food, prawn, etc. I don't believe we've added anything into the tank nor do I believe the people from the local fish store added anything into our tank either. So: - How long does live rock stay live? - Will the tank cycle effectively if we haven't added anything with new bacteria? - If I want to change the substrate to a fine sand like sugar sand or something, do I need to wait until the cycle is finished or can I change it during the cycle? Thanks in advanced!

07/12/2015, 11:42 PM	#2
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	First off... welcome to Reef Central! Thanks for researching your tank, I am sure it's future inhabitants will appreciate it So the tank sat stagnant for years? Can you post some pics? Live rock needs a food source and a few conditions to stay live. I assume you saw a lot of evaporation over those years if it is in fact the same water. Was copper ever used in the tank? Crushed coral isn't ideal for substrate. Since there is nothing in the tank for starters I would drain the tank and suck the crushed coral out. Refill the tank with fresh made RODI saltwater. Then add the live sand. I would also add a raw shrimp from the supermarket seafood department. This will certainly get a cycle going and get your water chemistry on track. Who knows what is going on with the rock at this point but I assume if the tank made it years someone was topping it up. If that is the case than maybe the rock still has some life left. It is "live" from bacteria and bacteria does need food. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

07/13/2015, 07:30 AM	#5
gone fishin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wyocena Wi Posts: 6,936	I think I would pull the crushed coral and replace with some aragonite sand. The crushed coral can hold detritus making things a bit more difficult than they need to be. Also, I think I would start out with some new water. Then toss in the deli shrimp. I would also suggest getting a set of tests, API kits are fine for cycling. Makes life easier when you can do your own testing. The link may be of some use to you. It has multiple topics. Good luck http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074 __________________ Tony Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT

07/13/2015, 03:13 AM	#3
ilykpie Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 8	Sump, Skimmer & Filter http://i.imgur.com/zYU6Aq8.jpg Light Setup http://i.imgur.com/oSklLgh.jpg Front shot, haven't messed around with the light settings.. so really blue atm. http://i.imgur.com/ttSHM0e.jpg Sorry for the quality of the pics, taken with my iPhone. The tank has been stagnant for years including the rock and water. I don't believe copper was used in the tank. I'm not sure what the local fish shop is trying to achieve, as far as I can see nothing has been added. I'm leaning towards the method you recommended as I'll understand what's going on if I'm in control.

07/13/2015, 03:20 AM	#4
ilykpie Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 8	Hi, thanks for the fast reply! Here are pics of the set-up Sump, Skimmer & Filter http://i.imgur.com/zYU6Aq8.jpg Light Setup http://i.imgur.com/oSklLgh.jpg Front shot, haven't messed around with the light settings.. using the default. Photo was taken at its brightest point. http://i.imgur.com/ttSHM0e.jpg Sorry for the quality of the pics, taken with my iPhone. The tank has been stagnant for years including the rock and water. I don't believe copper was used in the tank. I'm not sure what the local fish shop is trying to achieve, as far as I can see nothing has been added. I'm leaning towards the method you recommended as I'll understand what's going on if I'm in control.

07/13/2015, 11:22 AM	#6
ericarenee Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Louisville Kentucky Posts: 3,110	along with everything above i would also be weary of Nutrient levels in that live rock. If it starts leaching phosphates and nitrates later on this can become a serious issue. OF course depending on what you keep in there and the amount of water changes you intend on doing..