SPS Dying, LPS doing great??

[LittleSardines]

Hi guys!
About 5 months ago I upgraded to a 120g peninsula tank, and it's mostly been doing great except the last month or so all my SPS started to really struggle.

I had a few acropora frags along with a few encrusting montis, a pocillopora, a povona, and a cyphastrea. The acros are all dead - they held on for quite a while and finally gave out about two days ago. The montis are holding on, but not looking great, the pocillopora is nearly gone - but looked good for quite a while then went really quickly about a week ago. The povona is still around but only barely.

I have a good number of LPS on a separate rock that are all doing very well - save for a pink goniopora I have. I also have a number of zoas and mushrooms that are doing well and a clam that is doing well.

Here' an overview of my setup:
120g peninsula w/ 30g sump
2 ecodrift 8.0
reef breeders photon 48 light
water temp: steady @ 80
salinity: 1.025
ammonia/nitrite: 0
nitrate: ~5
calcium: 460 (auto dosing 30ml per day in 10ml increments)
alk: 8-8.1 (auto dosing 33ml a day in 11ml increments)

I have quite a bit of hawaiian black sand in my tank which we are suspecting might have some silicates and or heavy metals in it - i have a diatom bloom which is a little strange for a 5 month old tank (i think?).

does anyone have any ideas on why my SPS would be dying but not anything else in my tank?

[LittleSardines]

Does anyone have any thoughts here? I'd love to be able to keep SPS in my tank. A few thoughts from other sites have been flow related - what's the ideal amount of flow that should be given to SPS??

[Pife]

What's your po4s at?
What is your light?

[LittleSardines]

Originally Posted by Pife

What's your po4s at?
What is your light?

phosphate is about .1
lighting is reef breeders photon 48 at 40% white and 80% blue at peak for about 3 hours a day - ramping up and back down of course.

[Pife]

Originally Posted by LittleSardines

phosphate is about .1

If this is correct that it your problem. I keep my po4s lower than .02

[lynchmob3000]

For a younger tank this could be it

[150778]

How close are your lights to the water
80 % seems high

I was bleaching my sps with my photon 60 I had to drop back to 37/48 %
The Lps are more forgiving with sudden bright light than sps

[LittleSardines]

I feel like I'd have a lot more algae growth going on if the phosphates were really the problem - the tank is 5 months old.
my lights are about 10 inches above the water - tested my par and was getting about 460-500 par on the SPS. In the reef breeder lights the blues don't do much for photosynthesis, all the UV lights are paired in with the white channel, so I'm only giving about 40% white/UV.

[Pife]

Originally Posted by LittleSardines

I feel like I'd have a lot more algae growth going on if the phosphates were really the problem - the tank is 5 months old.
my lights are about 10 inches above the water - tested my par and was getting about 460-500 par on the SPS. In the reef breeder lights the blues don't do much for photosynthesis, all the UV lights are paired in with the white channel, so I'm only giving about 40% white/UV.

It sounds like you have all your own answers. Good luck.

[LittleSardines]

Originally Posted by Pife

It sounds like you have all your own answers. Good luck.

Not trying to offend anyone... I've been thinking about this for a long time now and couldn't settle on anything in particular that fit just right. Looking for some ideas on things that are perhaps less common than the typical reason why corals die.
Can you have high Po4 with low algae growth and dying coral? I didn't think so but tell me if I'm wrong.

[oldbones]

Not familiar with your powerheads, but flow could be an issue. That's a good size tank, you need to be moving some serious water. Think total water movement of 20-30 times your tank volume, or 2,400-3,600 gph flow. Some have considerably more than that.

Give us some good pics of the tank and sump, that might help.

[LittleSardines]

Hmm. It says that each pump should provide 1-2,000 gph of water movement, and I'm running both at 100%. We've been changing up the flow quite a bit to try to get the best movement we can, and when the corals had polyps they seemed to be moving around a good amount. I'm thinking flow may still be part of the trouble though just because it's a peninsula.
Here's a pic of the tank:

The sump:

[Pife]

Originally Posted by LittleSardines

Can you have high Po4 with low algae growth and dying coral? I didn't think so but tell me if I'm wrong.

Yes you can.


Are your acros turning brown and then dying?

[billyzbear]

I think 5 months is too early for sps.
Kinda hard to tell from pick. Is that a 3g mummy eye chalice center to right part way up? Green...If your light is really too bright for sps that chalice would be burnt.
Center right top sps, looks like there is a white mark, a little ways up from bottom, could be flat worms.
Center bottom left, that guy is really stressed. Maybe easier to re-home it. Scoly?
As for flow nothing gets direct flow.
What are you feeding your tank? Corals need to eat too.
I don't think p04 at .1 is going to kill sps. I've been higher and nothing died.
Have you tested rodi water?
Was the monti's polps out at one time?

[arashsheikhpoor]

Lower your phosphates.. I have been going through the same thing..

[nemodan]

Do you do water changes ? Frequency and how much ?

You are adding Alk 3 x 11 ml. You are inducing an Alk and PH peak each time. I will suggest you split that in more doses during the day. Same for Ca. Do not add both,at the same time. Give a few minutes after you add one to add the other.

Acros needs very stable conditions.

[LittleSardines]

Originally Posted by Pife

Yes you can.


Are your acros turning brown and then dying?

They're actually not turning brown first, they receded from the base and had normal coloring most of the time.

Originally Posted by billyzbear

I think 5 months is too early for sps.
Kinda hard to tell from pick. Is that a 3g mummy eye chalice center to right part way up? Green...If your light is really too bright for sps that chalice would be burnt.
Center right top sps, looks like there is a white mark, a little ways up from bottom, could be flat worms.
Center bottom left, that guy is really stressed. Maybe easier to re-home it. Scoly?
As for flow nothing gets direct flow.
What are you feeding your tank? Corals need to eat too.
I don't think p04 at .1 is going to kill sps. I've been higher and nothing died.
Have you tested rodi water?
Was the monti's polps out at one time?

I've seen tanks stayed for week with sps that are doing well, but maybe there is something going on with the sheer of the tank i guess.
The green one center right is either a sunset Monti or psammacora. I have a few chalices doing well on the other side of the tank but you can't see them from the picture.
The center right sps is unfortunate totally dead now, it was a copps cali cali.
Center bottom left is struggling im pretty sure because it's infested with aptasia in the skeleton underneath.

Nothing is getting direct flow, my power heads are pointed at the glass and bouncing around the tank from there.
I've heard similar stories about Po4, that's why I'm hesitant to call that the issue, i am trying to lower it with phosguard though.
Haven't tested my rodi, i will.
Both monti's polyps are still out, rainbow Monti with red polyps and sunset Monti with green ones.

Originally Posted by nemodan

Do you do water changes ? Frequency and how much ?

You are adding Alk 3 x 11 ml. You are inducing an Alk and PH peak each time. I will suggest you split that in more doses during the day. Same for Ca. Do not add both,at the same time. Give a few minutes after you add one to add the other.

Acros needs very stable conditions.

Ive been doing water changes monthly, my nitrates never read more than 5 though. I am thinking about starting to do them more.
I'll split up the dosing more and see if that helps any, they've been set to add at 15 minutes apart. Thanks!

[nemodan]

I asked about the WC frequency because, could be, you are having depletion of elements that you are not suplementing. Weekly water changes helps to restore those elements. Could be this is affecting your Acros.

About the dosing, I am dosing now 65 ml (2parts) spread from Midnight to 5 PM every hour.

[toothman]

It really looks like a nice tank. It does however look a bit young, kind of sterile. Black sand also does not buffer the best. Not that big of a issue. Phosphates at .1 will be fine for lps, but acros really do better when phos is lower than .06. What you want to do is build over the months on how much food you can put in the tank and keep water parameters normal. A mature tank has a lot of life in it and can take a lot of food and do well. Things like sponges will grow, fan worms etc. Which all help to purify the water.

[Reefvet]

Your tank is not too young. You can grow SPS in a 3 week old tank. The age bit is outdated urban lore. Your tank will support more SPS in time but there's no reason it shouldn't now.

Your black sand has the same buffering ability as white sand, which you're not relying on anyway.

It sounds like you have sufficient light and flow.

Your phosphate level isn't a problem though it can't hurt to lower it with water changes. Phosguard is an aluminum based product that's outdated and no the best solution. It potentially can introduce problems.

Only changing water once a month and not feeding or supplementing any coral foods means the only food sources for the SPS are light and detritus from the fish.

I'd change a significant amount of water and start doing water changes at least every 2 weeks. You also don't mention any dosing of aminos or feeding the corals. Monthly water changes are not sufficient for many SPS.

I only see 1 clown fish and I see what looks like cyano on the sand.

How many fish are in the tank ?

Have you siphoned/cleaned the sand since you set the tank up ? The sand be looks pretty deep and if that's cyano it may be holding too much detritus and that's where your nitrates are coming from.

I've been keeping SPS for 25+ years, been in the hobby for 40+ years. I have a pretty good idea of how to run a reef tank

[Reefvet]

And just to make my point. Here's a 4 week old frag tank. Lots of SPS growing with great color. It's a little hot in Southern California right now but the tanks cruising along at 82 without issues.

[Tweaked]

Leave it to a vet to tell us it's easy lol. He's right though and his comments above should be absorbed. I did want to comment on the statement that shouldn't you have more algae then with the po4 that high- yes and no. I have seen where LED lit tanks have a harder time with coralline algae including the plant algaes.

[v10king]

Are those real reef rocks with fake corraline or real corraline? Tank looks pretty new and sterile. I started SPS in my tank after 7 days and those I first put in are still alive and kicking and are biggest ones I have now 9 months later. I don't change water on my tank and I dose CA, ALK, MG, and Fauna Marin color elements . I used to have GFO and Carbon and change water all the time and had no success with sps, they floundered along and were pale and eventually would stn never growing a MM. Now, every 45 days I take a reference pic and these things are growing significantly with minimal maintenance work required. Best of both worlds, try dosing Fauna Marin color elements and take off any carbon or gfo if you are running any. Let me know if that works, I bet it does.

[150778]

Originally Posted by v10king

Are those real reef rocks with fake corraline or real corraline? Tank looks pretty new and sterile. I started SPS in my tank after 7 days and those I first put in are still alive and kicking and are biggest ones I have now 9 months later. I don't change water on my tank and I dose CA, ALK, MG, and Fauna Marin color elements . I used to have GFO and Carbon and change water all the time and had no success with sps, they floundered along and were pale and eventually would stn never growing a MM. Now, every 45 days I take a reference pic and these things are growing significantly with minimal maintenance work required. Best of both worlds, try dosing Fauna Marin color elements and take off any carbon or gfo if you are running any. Let me know if that works, I bet it does.

How long does a 500ml bottle last on a 150 gal setup

[mhucasey]

Originally Posted by LittleSardines

They're actually not turning brown first, they receded from the base and had normal coloring most of the time.



I've seen tanks stayed for week with sps that are doing well, but maybe there is something going on with the sheer of the tank i guess.
The green one center right is either a sunset Monti or psammacora. I have a few chalices doing well on the other side of the tank but you can't see them from the picture.
The center right sps is unfortunate totally dead now, it was a copps cali cali.
Center bottom left is struggling im pretty sure because it's infested with aptasia in the skeleton underneath.

Nothing is getting direct flow, my power heads are pointed at the glass and bouncing around the tank from there.
I've heard similar stories about Po4, that's why I'm hesitant to call that the issue, i am trying to lower it with phosguard though.
Haven't tested my rodi, i will.
Both monti's polyps are still out, rainbow Monti with red polyps and sunset Monti with green ones.



Ive been doing water changes monthly, my nitrates never read more than 5 though. I am thinking about starting to do them more.
I'll split up the dosing more and see if that helps any, they've been set to add at 15 minutes apart. Thanks!

When you say receded from the base, are you saying they thin slowly there then die off a little at a time, or are you seeing the pieces of flesh slough off the skeleton from the base up? If it s the first It's similar to what Ive seen in my tank. The cause seemed to be a combination of too much light and too aggressive skimming. Based on your picture, your skimmer is pulling a lot of stuff out of the water. If you skim aggressively enough you can have no algae even with Phosphate and Nitrate in the water. I would back the skimmer off to dry skim(gunk mostly collects in the neck) and lower the level of light by at least a third.

If you are concerned with something leaching from the sand, a polyfilter in the sump is good insurance and its a cheap way to give you peace of mind.