Ecotech quiet drive disappointing - product and service

[zzz111]

hey guys, just unhappy with ecotech marine, super unhappy. figured one of the few options to get over it is probably to share the experience, and also to hopefully see what the exposure of the similar problem really is like, if you guys having similar experience ever bother to share.

i had been a happy customer of ecotech marine for years, for a 24 inch cube, i installed 3 radion lights (2x g2-pro, 1x g3-pro), 2 mp-10 pumps, and a backup battery, and a reef link which fails not all the time but only every time when i needed it. I have 2 tunze 6095 too controlled by tunze 7096, used to be 4, 2 front ones replaced with ecotech mp10s. the lights and pumps worked fine, except that each and everyone of them is louder than my skimmer or return pump or anything else on my tank or in my room, excluding my home theater of course. the other problem with them, not really a secret, is their software, i don't remember ever once i touched the software without a major problem. my advice is if you don't have a full day, don't touch them.

ok here's what happened. on july 29 2015 i finally got my hands on 2 units of mp-10 qd upgrade kits, the mp-10 pumps despite the size have been the most noisy things in my room for the past many years, closely behind are the radion lights, no other equipment is anywhere close to their noise levels, so i pre-ordered the 2 qd upgrade kits the moment they announced it, sometime in 2014 i believe. installation not quite eventful although software hassles are faithful to present themselves as expected anyway, in the ever consistent ecotech way. boy they're quite, i loved them, until they fell to the sandbed one after another hours after i left for a 3-4 day short vacation. my 2 tunze 6095 are basically covered and surrounded and blocked by over grown sps, the tank is basically left with no flow when the mp-10s fell to sand bed. and if i don't have 4 webcams pointing at my tank, and trusted ecosmart live, it said my pumps were working fine, it continued to drive the dry sides at 100% power i set.

had quite some email conversations with ecotech support, guys are nice, but i checked all the emails again, not a single time can i find any useful or constructive advice or instruction, just all kinds of questions, relevant or not, and finally some really good jokes. i found out by myself that the wet side tends to drop off in the pulsing mode when dramatic speed changes happen. after i found it out myself, that's couple weeks into my email conversation with ecotech, they suddenly remembered that there were "A COUPLE" pumps around our tiny little planet ever experienced similar problem when in pulsing mode, my poor understanding of english is that "A COUPLE" can in the most loose sense mean a bit more than 1 or 2, but should probably not mean dozens or hundreds. ecotech promises to investigate the problem and try solving it, i used my math skills learnt in primary school and did some calculation and suggested them the cheapest and easiest way to solve that issue with "A COUPLE" of pumps worldwide is, simply and stupidly, to replace them, to save the valuable time of their customer support reps and r&d engineers, and to save all the troubles that "couple of" customers are suffering, but they seem to have been taught a different math at primary school. so i removed all pulsing mode periods from my program, which is actually critically important to my way overstocked overgrown sps tank, and set the power to max at 80% down from 100% just to be safe, before i left for a 2-week trip to the middle of nowhere. to my total surprise they fell again, fortunately towards the end of the trip, tank left with no flow for 2 or 3 days, i got back home on august 23, some rtn but not the end of the world.

i reached out to ecotech marine support again telling them their pumps fell even without pulsing mode working at only 80% max power, and again i reminded them the lowest cost and highest customer sat way of "solving" this problem affecting "couple" units worldwide, is to replace them. guess what solution the genius there come up with? they ask me to ship the qd upgrade kits i bought in shanghai on july 29 2015 and fell to sand bed on august 1 2015, and i guess also the pump heads i bought years ago also in shanghai, to their Singapore distributor for "troubleshooting", and he promised their Singaporean distributor will be able to diagnose the pumps and repair them and return to me, trying to convince me the distributor is more capable than themselves. i'm as of the time of writing still waiting for a power strap shipped to me in shanghai from Singapore out on august 25 or 12 days ago, having no idea when it's going to arrive, i understand it's not easy for a power strap to swim across the south china sea, but i doubt if the mp10 pumps will swim any faster. so i replied and asked the genius at ecotech if his chinese vendor asks him to ship their newly locally bought miserably and repetitively failing device to say Ecuador for troubleshooting and repair, would he do it? that marks the end of my conversation with ecotech, i have a bunch of tv channels when i needed good jokes.

early next week i'm leaving again for the us, for 2 weeks. guess i won't be able to sleep with these pumps on my tank so i dug out the old white mp-10-ND noisy-drive drivers, and upgraded from qd to nd (of course it's an upgrade, from a pump that falls to one that does not). with the usual familiar software hurdles it took me only 3 hours this time to get them work again, if you're interested i'm happy to share how i bricked them, googled the net, recovered them, have reef link found them and lost them, having them showing "RF_STATUS OFF" while controllable in ecosmart live demo mode (these things are quite spiritual they can communicate with no RF no cable, maybe through "vibration" or "quantum") but not in program mode, ...., anyway, ecotech customers are probably already too used to these wonders.

now I'm a happy customer again, upgrading from the latest quiet-drive to the years old noisy-drive, with piece of mind that my pumps wouldn't drop to sand bed when i'm out of town, yahoo! If they do drop again, I promise I'll glued them on the front door of ecotech and post the picture of that everywhere on the web, yes i'm serious, how can i be not after all these, and if some more :-)

[uwish]

Why would the upgrade kits result in decoupling? Did you also replace the wet side and or the dry side as well?

[zzz111]

Originally Posted by uwish

Why would the upgrade kits result in decoupling? Did you also replace the wet side and or the dry side as well?

No the upgrade kits are just drivers (the box with lights and nob), the new black ones, to replace the old white ones, and supposedly by selling these upgrade kits they imply they should work with the old wet side/dryside you bought with the old white controller to be replaced. My original mp10s were bought in 2011, old, but i don't see anywhere ecotech ever mentioned mp10s older than which year are not compatible with these upgrade kits. and they never said that during our weeks long email conversation, so i guess it's double confirmation they should work, supposedly.

as to why they decouple, I'm a bit slow but i still came to the conclusion that they are simply not compatible, they didn't test enough with all models they're supposed to support before they began to sell the upgrade kits. that's ok, you can never test enough, what's not ok, is the way they handle this. first they don't tell you pulsing mode is most prone to wet side drop off after login into my account looking at my program seeing 4 or 5 sections of those in my schedule, then when i found it out myself, they tell you there're only "a couple" units ever seen that problem but they won't replace that couple units they prefer to see these couple bad boys continue to torture their customers. and the worst is, knowing that I was going out for a 2-week trip, they told me with pulsing mode removed there's no reason they shall fall again. Given their track record on not remembering pulsing mode cause decoupling until i discover it myself, I'm not sure if they knew the wet side could still fall even with other more smooth transition modes. these guys just don't care about your full tank loads of life, i have problem with people don't care about life, that's wrong, especially not in this business, they might do perfectly well in the defense industry, good business good money too. right?

[EllisJuan]

How thick is the glass on your tank?

[zzz111]

Originally Posted by EllisJuan

How thick is the glass on your tank?

10mm, they asked. Same as when the noisy-drives worked fine for years, didn't notice any dramatic change of glass thickness lately when qd drivers fell

[zzz111]

Frankly I'm not looking for troubleshooting tips here regarding these 2 pumps, since ecotech has made it clear to me only their Singaporean disti are capable of this, not even themselves as they've proved. It's just compatibility issue no way to resolve other than replacement or recall in my opinion, save their Singapore distributor. I'm just here to share the experience, and hopeful people with similar experience show up so I get a better understanding of the English phrase "a couple", see how many a couple can actually mean these days :-)

[zzz111]

I wish the fed don't watch this thread otherwise rate hike in sep inevitable

[n2585722]

I have this same issue of decoupling. It happens on mine when the pumps are turned on. I had to reinstall the white drivers. The only difference is I never have them turned up high at all. Only a third of the way up.

[Spiffy]

Originally Posted by zzz111

Frankly I'm not looking for troubleshooting tips here regarding these 2 pumps, since ecotech has made it clear to me only their Singaporean disti are capable of this, not even themselves as they've proved. It's just compatibility issue no way to resolve other than replacement or recall in my opinion, save their Singapore distributor. I'm just here to share the experience, and hopeful people with similar experience show up so I get a better understanding of the English phrase "a couple", see how many a couple can actually mean these days :-)

If you're not here to troubleshoot the issue, then why even bother posting this thread? You seem peeved because EcoTech won't replace something that you can't figure out how to use. Trolling, maybe?

Anyway, it sounds like you have them incorrectly spaced. Whenever I have had an issue with decoupling, it has always been because I had them incorrectly spaced. Make sure you check your glass thickness, and cross-reference it with the recommendations in the owners manual.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by n2585722

I have this same issue of decoupling. It happens on mine when the pumps are turned on. I had to reinstall the white drivers. The only difference is I never have them turned up high at all. Only a third of the way up.

That's interesting. How old is your 10? Certainly seems possible that in controlling the dry side differently the character of torque may have changed causing decoupling. I bought a brand new 40QD that has worked flawlessly. I also replaced just the driver on a second 40 and on my 60. On the 60, I have had the wetside fall off once, which it never did before with the white driver.

Backwards compatibility is never 100%, so perhaps some applications where glass thickness approaches maximum will be problematic.

[zzz111]

Originally Posted by Spiffy

If you're not here to troubleshoot the issue, then why even bother posting this thread? You seem peeved because EcoTech won't replace something that you can't figure out how to use. Trolling, maybe?

Anyway, it sounds like you have them incorrectly spaced. Whenever I have had an issue with decoupling, it has always been because I had them incorrectly spaced. Make sure you check your glass thickness, and cross-reference it with the recommendations in the owners manual.

Thanks for you question. If you didn't notice high up in my original post, the goal of this post was to share experience and have people with similar experience to voice up, so I know how much does "a couple" mean nowadays in modern english, and EcoTech hopefully learn some lessons together with me and their other customers.

And thanks for your diagnose on incorrect spacing too. Just one question, how fast can my glass change thickness over a month while the same wet side / dry side had happily working together opposite on that same glass since 2011 until QD upgrade on July 29th?

[zzz111]

Originally Posted by n2585722

I have this same issue of decoupling. It happens on mine when the pumps are turned on. I had to reinstall the white drivers. The only difference is I never have them turned up high at all. Only a third of the way up.

Thanks a lot for sharing, that's new knowledge to me. I was tempted to further lower the power from 80% to maybe 60%, and hope they stay, I really liked it quiet, and was very reluctant to "upgrade" back to my white Noisy-Drive controllers. Now I feel lucky I didn't fool around further and risk my tank for the next 2 week while I'll be half a world away.

[zzz111]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

That's interesting. How old is your 10? Certainly seems possible that in controlling the dry side differently the character of torque may have changed causing decoupling. I bought a brand new 40QD that has worked flawlessly. I also replaced just the driver on a second 40 and on my 60. On the 60, I have had the wetside fall off once, which it never did before with the white driver.

Backwards compatibility is never 100%, so perhaps some applications where glass thickness approaches maximum will be problematic.

Backwards compatibility is always a huge headache, definitely I'm with you, and I don't blame them on THAT, as I've hopefully made clear in earlier posts.

Frankly I believe they should have never marketed that "upgrade kit" without serious testing and strict specification of applicable past products such as a serial number or mfg date range, or at least be honest with people that they are aware of "a couple" of their pumps having that kind of failure that can easily wipe off a densely populated SPS tank in days. There is a little bit extra money to make this way, but quite irresponsibly, to the lives in the tanks, and to their own name if they ever care.

[Spiffy]

Ca1ore hit the nail on the head. It's like switching tire sizes on a car and expecting the speedometer to read the same as before. Compatibility is never absolute. That's why products come with Owners Manuals. You can't mix and match parts and expect there to not be a problem.

[zzz111]

Originally Posted by Spiffy

Ca1ore hit the nail on the head. It's like switching tire sizes on a car and expecting the speedometer to read the same as before. Compatibility is never absolute. That's why products come with Owners Manuals. You can't mix and match parts and expect there to not be a problem.

I wish EcoTech understands this too, if they had tested more seriously, and came up with a compatibility guideline before they squeeze that last drop of upgrade kit money, they would have caused much less problems.

But I don't get it why is owners manual relevant here, is there anywhere in the original MP10 owners manual which says it won't work with a future EcoTech upgrade kit? I must have missed this one:-) I'm sure there's nowhere in the QD upgrade kit package or official web, which says it doesn't work with any MP10 EcoTech ever sold.

[Scorpius]

Sounds like user error on OP's part. Just sayin....

[zzz111]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

Sounds like user error on OP's part. Just sayin....

Definitely my first guess too, that's why I reached out for EcoTech support, they don't seem to agree with you though, or they have probably pointed that out during our weeks long conversations.

[n2585722]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

Sounds like user error on OP's part. Just sayin....

So you are saying both of us are doing something wrong. I stoped by their booth at MACNA. All they could ask is did you clean the wetside. One has a new wetside. Do you need to clean a new never before used part. Then they said I need to run it. Well I ran it for a few months no help. I ask if I was not doing something after installing the QD upgrade. The things run with the ES drivers without any issues. So the only suggestion is to contact support. So I guess I will see what they have to say, but for now the ES drivers are back on the units.

[EllisJuan]

I think you should just cut your losses and sell it...

...cheaply to me.

[SoloGarth]

The way they made it quiet, as I understand it changes the way the motor windings are fired. It is possible to remove noise, vibration and increase efficiency by changing where each winding fires in relation to the magnet position. I can imagine how making these changes could result in decoupling as tolerances are likely much smaller now and a misfiring might decrease (by canceling out) the strength of the field used to couple the two parts.

[zzz111]

Originally Posted by EllisJuan

I think you should just cut your losses and sell it...

...cheaply to me.

I had had to make a painful decision when I was a teenage, when a street food vendor pointed to me that the 50 yuan note I paid was a fake, it looked very much like real, and didn't get to see 50 yuan notes very often anyway. It took me hours to finally decide to tear it up and throw it to the trash, and months after to digest the loss. Thanks for the offer to help, but these two are much, much easier to swallow :-)

[zzz111]

Originally Posted by SoloGarth

The way they made it quiet, as I understand it changes the way the motor windings are fired. It is possible to remove noise, vibration and increase efficiency by changing where each winding fires in relation to the magnet position. I can imagine how making these changes could result in decoupling as tolerances are likely much smaller now and a misfiring might decrease (by canceling out) the strength of the field used to couple the two parts.

Yes decoupling happens when the magnetic fields of the wet and dry sides, not just canceling, but pushes against each other. I can tell the wet sides were not sliding down the glass, but they were pushed out to knock down some tips of my sps not supposedly reachable on its way down.

But I don't think they know the position of the wet side magnetic poles, they just drive it blindly, and wish somehow the wet/dry sides will align well with each other. Simple test to confirm this: just remove your wet side, and watch the controller lights, as well as ecosmart live, happily working as before, and reporting perfect working condition back to you, so they don't even know if there IS a wet side or not, let along the magnet alignment. You'll need a webcam to tell you if the wetsides are still on, EcoTech stuffs don't know that.

[zzz111]

Originally Posted by n2585722

So you are saying both of us are doing something wrong. I stoped by their booth at MACNA. All they could ask is did you clean the wetside. One has a new wetside. Do you need to clean a new never before used part. Then they said I need to run it. Well I ran it for a few months no help. I ask if I was not doing something after installing the QD upgrade. The things run with the ES drivers without any issues. So the only suggestion is to contact support. So I guess I will see what they have to say, but for now the ES drivers are back on the units.

You are closer so you might get better result, at least shouldn't be asked to ship them to Tanzania. Wish you good luck! Those quiet drives are really quiet, and a bit more flow, really good when they work.

[Griff500]

If it makes you feel any better, I had a MP40 QD with the same problem, so I'm not sure it is a matter of compatibility. I used a thinner gasket (or it might have been without a gasket, cannot recall, but no issues since.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Griff500

If it makes you feel any better, I had a MP40 QD with the same problem, so I'm not sure it is a matter of compatibility. I used a thinner gasket (or it might have been without a gasket, cannot recall, but no issues since.

Oh, so user error. User used wrong spacer for particular glass thickness. Gotcha.