Queen Angelfish death

[Maverick79]

Good day all,

Before I begin, let me explain what I current have going in my saltwater tank:

100 gallons
Ammonia = 0
Ph = 8.2
Nitrate & Nitrite = 0
Saltwater = 1.023

I have my 100 gallon for about 10 months, it was converted from a 55 gallon previously for about 14 months, but due to my fish stock, I increased the tank size. I am already saving for a 300 gallon tank before summer next year. Here is my current fish stock with their respective size and in the order from oldest to newest fish:

Foxface 6"
Immaculate pufferfish 5"
Spiny box pufferfush 3"
Clarkii clownfish 3"
2 Blue Hippo Tangs 2" each
Stars and stripes pufferfish 4"
Pink tail trigger 4"

8 fish total BTW I know their full adult sizes for later

Here is the question/issue:
I bought a juv queen angel yesterday (3-4") and I found it dead this morning with no scars scratches or anything. How I acclimate my fish (which I'd what I did for all my fish listed above) is through drip acclimation, usually lasting 30-45 minutes at about 2-3 drips percsecond (from what I see) bc my LFS has their salinity at 1.020.

Any ideas why my expensive queen angel died? Supposedly, queens are hardy fish, semi aggressive, and should generally be added to an established tank last. PLEASE, I NEED A VALID EXPLANATION ON WHAT POSSIBLY WENT WRONG!!!!

Thank you

[BigBlueTang]

Originally Posted by Maverick79

Good day all,



Before I begin, let me explain what I current have going in my saltwater tank:



100 gallons

Ammonia = 0

Ph = 8.2

Nitrate & Nitrite = 0

Saltwater = 1.023



I have my 100 gallon for about 10 months, it was converted from a 55 gallon previously for about 14 months, but due to my fish stock, I increased the tank size. I am already saving for a 300 gallon tank before summer next year. Here is my current fish stock with their respective size and in the order from oldest to newest fish:



Foxface 6"

Immaculate pufferfish 5"

Spiny box pufferfush 3"

Clarkii clownfish 3"

2 Blue Hippo Tangs 2" each

Stars and stripes pufferfish 4"

Pink tail trigger 4"



8 fish total BTW I know their full adult sizes for later



Here is the question/issue:

I bought a juv queen angel yesterday (3-4") and I found it dead this morning with no scars scratches or anything. How I acclimate my fish (which I'd what I did for all my fish listed above) is through drip acclimation, usually lasting 30-45 minutes at about 2-3 drips percsecond (from what I see) bc my LFS has their salinity at 1.020.



Any ideas why my expensive queen angel died? Supposedly, queens are hardy fish, semi aggressive, and should generally be added to an established tank last. PLEASE, I NEED A VALID EXPLANATION ON WHAT POSSIBLY WENT WRONG!!!!



Thank you

Way too fast of an acclimation.... Raising the salinity that much in 45 mins must have shocked the fish. Also, the fish you have in that tank all need a bigger tank than a 100, not including the clowns.... Honestly, you need to remove everything but the clowns.

Do you not believe in quarantining??? You absolutely have some diseases in your tank, and if you had a qt, the fish mortality may have been avoided... Then you could have saved your "expensive queen". Sorry about being rude, but its the truth and you need to hear it. If the queen had survived, it may have died due to aggression anyways... GL, read up on tank requirements for the fish you have, and need to get rid of.

[Maverick79]

LFS said 30-45 minutes should have been more than enough. I hear you though, if rude is how you are, I can't change that so it's fine.

So from what you are telling me, is that even though my fish have survived for almost 2 years going from a smaller tank to my now 100 gallon tank that they will not survive for another 6 month until I get my 300 gallon. In addition to that, you are saying that I should get rid of my fish and only keep my one 3" clownfish (bc I only have one clown and no more than that as you suggested) I hope you do realize that the (#") is referring to their size and not the total count of that species. I have a total of 8 fish in a 100 gallon. I will still do what you are suggesting though, get rid of 7 of my fish and keep my one clownfish in the 100 gallon tank. Also, I understand the potential size of each fish when they get to their adult size, that's why I am already saving for the 300 gallon. Thanks for the analysis, I will have to speak with my LFS again and let him know that he was wrong.

[richieii]

Don't get rid of your other fish, get that 300 and transfer them before they get too big. I would of done the same thing. You didn't mention temp. but you dripped, is your device for measuring the salinity calibrated? died pretty quick, maybe someone can chime in

[BigBlueTang]

Originally Posted by Maverick79

LFS said 30-45 minutes should have been more than enough. I hear you though, if rude is how you are, I can't change that so it's fine.

So from what you are telling me, is that even though my fish have survived for almost 2 years going from a smaller tank to my now 100 gallon tank that they will not survive for another 6 month until I get my 300 gallon. In addition to that, you are saying that I should get rid of my fish and only keep my one 3" clownfish (bc I only have one clown and no more than that as you suggested) I hope you do realize that the (#") is referring to their size and not the total count of that species. I have a total of 8 fish in a 100 gallon. I will still do what you are suggesting though, get rid of 7 of my fish and keep my one clownfish in the 100 gallon tank. Also, I understand the potential size of each fish when they get to their adult size, that's why I am already saving for the 300 gallon. Thanks for the analysis, I will have to speak with my LFS again and let him know that he was wrong.

You do understand that the single goal of the LFS is to make money? Your LFS may be an extremely reputable one, but in the end they are trying to sell you money and we are not.

I understand your points. I am sorry about being rude, however, Reef Central's recommendations for Paracanthurus Hepatus(Blue Hippo Tang) is an 8ft tank.... and you have two. You don't need to get rid of your fish just yet. However, you do need to realize 90% of tank upgrades never happen, plus the cash you need for a functioning 300 gallon is a gigantic amount, and lots of people do not end up doing it. I am trying to help you, so your sarcastic attitude is not appreciated. I am also trying to help you with your queen angel to find out why it died. Richieii made a good point about salinity, but do you have a QT? You really need one for this hobby.

[Maverick79]

Thanks for the input, I appreciate your non aggressive response. I understand, i am hoping to get my 300 gallon by March. I am hoping to acquire a 500 gallon if the prices drop by then. My apologies, the temp is 78 degrees. Another thing I forgot to mention was that the guy at the LFS told me that the juv queen got in some fight with another fish and it's fin was damaged. It was heald by the time I bought it, but the LFS guy gave me an API medication general cure to be safe and told me to keep giving the fish that. He explained he has had the queen for about 3 weeks.

Thank you for getting more detailed. Let me know if there is any other info I can provide you.

Originally Posted by richieii

Don't get rid of your other fish, get that 300 and transfer them before they get too big. I would of done the same thing. You didn't mention temp. but you dripped, is your device for measuring the salinity calibrated? died pretty quick, maybe someone can chime in

[Maverick79]

I understand that's the goal for LFS. You don't need to be sorry for being rude either. Like I said, if that's how you are, I can't get mad. Also, I wasn't being sarcastic, I was already explaining to my wife on why we need to let go of all our other fish based on your comments. So I didn't take amything personal and sorry if I sounded sarcastic.

also, I do not have a QT. Had one before when I first started the hobby for treating ich, but the tank somehow got cracked and started leaking. Never thought to do another one. Thanks for the heads up though.

[NYReef]

Originally Posted by BigBlueTang

Way too fast of an acclimation.... Raising the salinity that much in 45 mins must have shocked the fish. Also, the fish you have in that tank all need a bigger tank than a 100, not including the clowns.... Honestly, you need to remove everything but the clowns.

Do you not believe in quarantining??? You absolutely have some diseases in your tank, and if you had a qt, the fish mortality may have been avoided... Then you could have saved your "expensive queen". Sorry about being rude, but its the truth and you need to hear it. If the queen had survived, it may have died due to aggression anyways... GL, read up on tank requirements for the fish you have, and need to get rid of.

Why are you being such a jerk to a fellow reefer asking for help. How can you possibly know the tank has disease, the other fish lived a long time, its them that stand the bigger risk, not the new fish. A fish can be harassed to death and not show much damage, that would be my first guess.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by BigBlueTang

Way too fast of an acclimation.... Raising the salinity that much in 45 mins must have shocked the fish.

This. While I also agree with the other points in the quoted post they do not pertain to the question asked.

[BigBlueTang]

Originally Posted by NYReef

Why are you being such a jerk to a fellow reefer asking for help. How can you possibly know the tank has disease, the other fish lived a long time, its them that stand the bigger risk, not the new fish. A fish can be harassed to death and not show much damage, that would be my first guess.

I wasn't trying to be a jerk, however that was the truth and he needed to hear it..

[enjetek]

Just from reading your original post did you use prime once you started the drip acclimation? Opening that bag and letting the drip take long could have meant the water was turning toxic.

[gji]

Always Qt new additions, but the quick rise of salinity is possible but so is many other diseases

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by enjetek

Just from reading your original post did you use prime once you started the drip acclimation? Opening that bag and letting the drip take long could have meant the water was turning toxic.

If the animal was shipped, that was possible but if just a local transport, highly unlikely.

[Dkuhlmann]

This fish also could have died from collection methods. Cyanide maybe? This is another possibility.

[viggen]

To from the data provided it's difficult to state if the salinity increase is to blame. I assume the same tool wasn't used to measure the salinity at home and at the LFS.... thus for all we know they could both be identical.... Or obviously farther then .03 apart

Just a week ago I had to tear down my 475g and put everyone in a temporary home. Salinity was .02 apart and I did a 30 minute acclimation. I do not use the drip method but bucket of water method. Every 5-10 minutes I double the water volume

Within 5-10 minutes of adding the fish to their new home..... my queen angel was eating out of my hand.

Imwoukd say he could of been sick or already very stressed. Did you watch him eat before you took him home? And also watch his behavior?

I would als be very cautious adding a queen with the spiny box puffer.... Even in a 300g they might not get along. I would also hold off on new fish until you get your new tank up and running. Queens have a huge attitude... Not a mild attitude....

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by viggen

To from the data provided it's difficult to state if the salinity increase is to blame. I assume the same tool wasn't used to measure the salinity at home and at the LFS.... thus for all we know they could both be identical.... Or obviously farther then .03 apart

Just a week ago I had to tear down my 475g and put everyone in a temporary home. Salinity was .02 apart and I did a 30 minute acclimation. I do not use the drip method but bucket of water method. Every 5-10 minutes I double the water volume

Within 5-10 minutes of adding the fish to their new home..... my queen angel was eating out of my hand.

Imwoukd say he could of been sick or already very stressed. Did you watch him eat before you took him home? And also watch his behavior?

I would als be very cautious adding a queen with the spiny box puffer.... Even in a 300g they might not get along. I would also hold off on new fish until you get your new tank up and running. Queens have a huge attitude... Not a mild attitude....

Going up in SG should be slower than going down.

[viggen]

Originally Posted by snorvich

Going up in SG should be slower than going down.

Correct, however as stated two different salinity meters at two different locations its impossible to accuratly state what the true salinity is. For all we know the salinity could of actually gone down despite the reading stating otherwise.....

type of equiptment used to test salinity
was equiptment calibrated propery

I have 3 different tools for measuring salinity & they do not show the same numbers with the same water.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by viggen

Correct, however as stated two different salinity meters at two different locations its impossible to accuratly state what the true salinity is. For all we know the salinity could of actually gone down despite the reading stating otherwise.....

type of equiptment used to test salinity
was equiptment calibrated propery

I have 3 different tools for measuring salinity & they do not show the same numbers with the same water.

If I were a betting man, I would bet on acclimation error.

[Sk8r]

I would tend to suspect same. My recommended method is to preset the qt salinity to that of the store tank, and NOT to acclimate except for a 15 minute temperature float with the sealed bag, then to adjust the salinity slowly during qt. This, however presupposes that the store is right about their salinity in the first place. You might take some refractometer test fluid, tell them what happened, and ask to cross compare. You could always test your refractometer against their water, too, and just clean and dry it well. If the store's refractometer is off, they might like to know it.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

I would tend to suspect same. My recommended method is to preset the qt salinity to that of the store tank, and NOT to acclimate except for a 15 minute temperature float with the sealed bag, then to adjust the salinity slowly during qt. This, however presupposes that the store is right about their salinity in the first place. You might take some refractometer test fluid, tell them what happened, and ask to cross compare. You could always test your refractometer against their water, too, and just clean and dry it well. If the store's refractometer is off, they might like to know it.

I agree. I do not trust the store to measure, I always measure bag water or bring my refractometer to measure their water. It is very easy to quickly lower QT tank water with RO/DI addition.