Plumber coming to possibly install floor drain - what do I need to know?

zeebies · 09/18/2015, 02:59 PM

Meeting with a plumber next week to hopefully install a drain near the main tank. Tank is on second floor of a home. I'm hoping to route my water change water down the drain and outside. We have wood floors.

I'd appreciate any help on what I should know beforehand like any specific drain types that are best, questions to ask, things to know about, etc. The extent of my plumbing knowledge is plumbing my 40 breeder...

Thanks.

Reefstarter2 · 09/18/2015, 03:15 PM

Instead of floor drain just put a standpipe behind the tank or close to front of stand and run it outside . you will miss with the floor drain and wreck your floors . I am a master plumber by the way

zeebies · 09/18/2015, 03:47 PM

Thank you Reefstarter. I like your idea. How tall should a standpipe be and what diameter? Would you cap it with something?

One advantage of the floor drain I thought would be to deal with any potential flooding accidents.

billsreef · 09/18/2015, 04:15 PM

For a floor drain to be of a real value, the floor needs to be watertight and all surfaces slope to the drain. Otherwise any spilled water will just seep through the floor and run away from the drain.

figuerres · 09/18/2015, 04:22 PM

Floor drain, what kind of foundation under the floor ? concrete ? wood ?
what kind of floor ? tile ? vinyl ?
is there a sewer line near the area ? like a bathroom or kitchen ?

think of the pipe that needs to be run to where there is a sewer line, also the drain must have what is called a "P-Trap" like under the sink that keeps sewer gas from venting into the room.
if you have a concrete foundation then they will have to get a saw and a jackhammer to make a trench to where they can connect to a sewer line, all of that will have to be plumbed and you have to get a building permit and have it inspected before the floor is closed back up with new concrete and then re tiled if you have a tile floor.

all of that being said you also need to make sure the floor drains to the drain, so you may also need to remove the current floor tile or whatever and have concrete ground / cut or a thin layer poured to create the right shape to make it drain.

yeah it might be a lot of work.

but if you are going to have a dedicated fish room I would do it.

before anything else get a plan with all the details drawn and listed, you need a general contractor to supervise and a mason for concrete work in addition to the plumber. you need to get a full estimate for all of the trades , like tile layers and any electrical work and any carpentry that may have to be done at the same time to properly finish the job.
a plumber will only have a license that cover his trade, not all of the other stuff and he should tell you this if he is on the level.
if he offers to do the whole job w/o proof that he has the other licenses and a general contractors coverage then stop right there.

just look at the Mike Holmes cable shows where folks get screwed on stuff.... and he comes in and spends a ton of time and money fixing it for them to show what the first guy did wrong.

zeebies · 09/18/2015, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billsreef

For a floor drain to be of a real value, the floor needs to be watertight and all surfaces slope to the drain. Otherwise any spilled water will just seep through the floor and run away from the drain.

Ok, I'm rethinking this floor drain idea. Thanks for the heads-up.

Figuerres, I hope to not get in to all that stuff but I do want a somewhat solid plan. Appreciate the info. Floors are wood. Foundation under wood floors is wood.

I have a floor drain (in concrete) in the basement - that's where my RODI waste water goes. I'm assuming this is NOT a sewer line? RODI set-up is in the basement.

Thoughts on a fish room floor standpipe that is plumbed down 2 floors to the basement just by gravity?

iced98lx · 09/18/2015, 05:04 PM

Floor drain in your basement is likely a sewer line/drain, complete with p trap, though there are situations where it may not be.

billsreef · 09/18/2015, 05:05 PM

Your basement floor drain is probably just a simple dry well or French drain.

If you want to run a stand pipe drain for water changes, 2 " pipe is sufficient.

Fishmommy · 09/18/2015, 05:07 PM

I have a basement floor drain that routes to a french drain out in the yahd. I route my RODI waste down it as well as my house water softener waste line. I don't put my water changes down it though....i use that to kill weeds on the patio

zeebies · 09/18/2015, 05:32 PM

If a French drain can be described as a large PVC pipe sticking out horizontally
from the hillside, yes, we have one of those. I believe that it is the end point from the drain of a garage utility sink.

Where does a basement drain drain to? We have a septic system/drain field and a 400' well if that matters.

Is it preferable to send water change water to a French drain or the septic system? Assuming I have a choice...

Thanks everyone so far. Would it help to post a picture of the basement drain for better ID?

figuerres · 09/18/2015, 06:45 PM

Not sure but this might be the way to go if you want a floor drain on a wood frame, check on how they make large showers, create a large floor pan that has a waterproof membrane, on top of that you can lay tile and the sides can go like a foot up the base of the walls just in case of splashing water or a small flood, this may need some bracing added in the floor frame but then you have water tight floor and the floor drain can be routed much easier than in concrete floors. Get someone who has done like locker room showers and they can put it together for you, tiles should be low cost ones, and you can bleach mop the floor to keep it clean and sterile after any spills.

figuerres · 09/18/2015, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeebies

If a French drain can be described as a large PVC pipe sticking out horizontally
from the hillside, yes, we have one of those. I believe that it is the end point from the drain of a garage utility sink.

Where does a basement drain drain to? We have a septic system/drain field and a 400' well if that matters.

Is it preferable to send water change water to a French drain or the septic system? Assuming I have a choice...

Thanks everyone so far. Would it help to post a picture of the basement drain for better ID?

Basement drain, may be any of several ways depending on how and when it was done also if you have elevation changes and where the groundwater level is at. If you do not have a way to gravity drop then they can use a pump just like how we pump water from a sump up to a display tank.

Reefstarter2 · 09/18/2015, 07:07 PM

never run your salt water to a septic system dry wells are fine sanitary drains are also fine the shower pan idea is a good one and lastly unless the floor is slab on grade it can be cored through to floor below to run drain lines vents etc remember the kiss method keep it simple stupid good luck

zeebies · 09/18/2015, 08:11 PM

Yeah, "the keep it simple" thing can be tough.

An alternative to the floor drain/standpipe idea might be to put a small utility sink in my tiny fish room - sort of like a big elevated floor drain. I'd be tempted to install a faucet but all I want is a simple drain.

The plumbing could run from the new 2nd floor sink to the 1st floor garage utility sink and out the French drain. Workable?

Does there need to be any venting or P-traps with this idea?

09/18/2015, 02:59 PM	#1
zeebies Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: NE Coast Posts: 851	Plumber coming to possibly install floor drain - what do I need to know? Meeting with a plumber next week to hopefully install a drain near the main tank. Tank is on second floor of a home. I'm hoping to route my water change water down the drain and outside. We have wood floors. I'd appreciate any help on what I should know beforehand like any specific drain types that are best, questions to ask, things to know about, etc. The extent of my plumbing knowledge is plumbing my 40 breeder... Thanks.

09/18/2015, 04:15 PM	#4
billsreef Moderator 10 & Over Club Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Long Island, NY/North Miami Posts: 36,538	For a floor drain to be of a real value, the floor needs to be watertight and all surfaces slope to the drain. Otherwise any spilled water will just seep through the floor and run away from the drain. __________________ Bill "LOL, well I have no brain apparently. " - dc (Debi) Current Tank Info: Far too many tanks according to my wife, LOL.

09/18/2015, 04:22 PM	#5
figuerres Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Plant City,FL,USA Posts: 1,339 Blog Entries: 15	Floor drain, what kind of foundation under the floor ? concrete ? wood ? what kind of floor ? tile ? vinyl ? is there a sewer line near the area ? like a bathroom or kitchen ? think of the pipe that needs to be run to where there is a sewer line, also the drain must have what is called a "P-Trap" like under the sink that keeps sewer gas from venting into the room. if you have a concrete foundation then they will have to get a saw and a jackhammer to make a trench to where they can connect to a sewer line, all of that will have to be plumbed and you have to get a building permit and have it inspected before the floor is closed back up with new concrete and then re tiled if you have a tile floor. all of that being said you also need to make sure the floor drains to the drain, so you may also need to remove the current floor tile or whatever and have concrete ground / cut or a thin layer poured to create the right shape to make it drain. yeah it might be a lot of work. but if you are going to have a dedicated fish room I would do it. before anything else get a plan with all the details drawn and listed, you need a general contractor to supervise and a mason for concrete work in addition to the plumber. you need to get a full estimate for all of the trades , like tile layers and any electrical work and any carpentry that may have to be done at the same time to properly finish the job. a plumber will only have a license that cover his trade, not all of the other stuff and he should tell you this if he is on the level. if he offers to do the whole job w/o proof that he has the other licenses and a general contractors coverage then stop right there. just look at the Mike Holmes cable shows where folks get screwed on stuff.... and he comes in and spends a ton of time and money fixing it for them to show what the first guy did wrong. __________________ Denny, Geek of all things... I guess I could fit the phrase "inquiring minds want to know..." :-) Current Tank Info: 150 reef tank underway, getting it stocked

09/18/2015, 05:05 PM	#8
billsreef Moderator 10 & Over Club Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Long Island, NY/North Miami Posts: 36,538	Your basement floor drain is probably just a simple dry well or French drain. If you want to run a stand pipe drain for water changes, 2 " pipe is sufficient. __________________ Bill "LOL, well I have no brain apparently. " - dc (Debi) Current Tank Info: Far too many tanks according to my wife, LOL.

09/18/2015, 05:07 PM	#9
Fishmommy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: NH, USA Posts: 1,214	I have a basement floor drain that routes to a french drain out in the yahd. I route my RODI waste down it as well as my house water softener waste line. I don't put my water changes down it though....i use that to kill weeds on the patio __________________ 135 DSA reef w/50 MRC sump. 10 + 5 QT, 180 planted, 75 planted

09/18/2015, 03:15 PM	#2
Reefstarter2 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 295	Instead of floor drain just put a standpipe behind the tank or close to front of stand and run it outside . you will miss with the floor drain and wreck your floors . I am a master plumber by the way

09/18/2015, 03:47 PM	#3
zeebies Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: NE Coast Posts: 851	Thank you Reefstarter. I like your idea. How tall should a standpipe be and what diameter? Would you cap it with something? One advantage of the floor drain I thought would be to deal with any potential flooding accidents.

09/18/2015, 05:04 PM	#7
iced98lx Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,258	Floor drain in your basement is likely a sewer line/drain, complete with p trap, though there are situations where it may not be.

09/18/2015, 05:32 PM	#10
zeebies Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: NE Coast Posts: 851	If a French drain can be described as a large PVC pipe sticking out horizontally from the hillside, yes, we have one of those. I believe that it is the end point from the drain of a garage utility sink. Where does a basement drain drain to? We have a septic system/drain field and a 400' well if that matters. Is it preferable to send water change water to a French drain or the septic system? Assuming I have a choice... Thanks everyone so far. Would it help to post a picture of the basement drain for better ID?

09/18/2015, 06:45 PM	#11
figuerres Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Plant City,FL,USA Posts: 1,339 Blog Entries: 15	Not sure but this might be the way to go if you want a floor drain on a wood frame, check on how they make large showers, create a large floor pan that has a waterproof membrane, on top of that you can lay tile and the sides can go like a foot up the base of the walls just in case of splashing water or a small flood, this may need some bracing added in the floor frame but then you have water tight floor and the floor drain can be routed much easier than in concrete floors. Get someone who has done like locker room showers and they can put it together for you, tiles should be low cost ones, and you can bleach mop the floor to keep it clean and sterile after any spills. __________________ Denny, Geek of all things... I guess I could fit the phrase "inquiring minds want to know..." :-) Current Tank Info: 150 reef tank underway, getting it stocked

09/18/2015, 07:07 PM	#13
Reefstarter2 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 295	never run your salt water to a septic system dry wells are fine sanitary drains are also fine the shower pan idea is a good one and lastly unless the floor is slab on grade it can be cored through to floor below to run drain lines vents etc remember the kiss method keep it simple stupid good luck

09/18/2015, 08:11 PM	#14
zeebies Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: NE Coast Posts: 851	Yeah, "the keep it simple" thing can be tough. An alternative to the floor drain/standpipe idea might be to put a small utility sink in my tiny fish room - sort of like a big elevated floor drain. I'd be tempted to install a faucet but all I want is a simple drain. The plumbing could run from the new 2nd floor sink to the 1st floor garage utility sink and out the French drain. Workable? Does there need to be any venting or P-traps with this idea?