Sump Refugium Help

Jahalu · 12/01/2015, 11:41 PM

Hello all. I'm in need of help. I'd like to add a refugium to my sump. I plan to use miracle mud and macro algae with the hope of keeping a healthy population of pods. My tank is 75 gallon semi cube with a 20 gallon sump (homemade). I am confused about how to configure the baffles and where to put it. I don't want mud to slip under a baffle etc... I made a sketch to explain my setup. The red is where I would add a baffle. Does this seem ok? Will there be enough flow with the water passing over one and then over again? Thanks ahead of time for the help. I want to get this right the first time. I will also post a photo of the setup as it is now.

Jahalu · 12/01/2015, 11:43 PM

Here is the photo.

Coelli · 12/02/2015, 01:10 AM

I think your baffle height is incorrect but maybe that's just your drawing.

The water level in your skimmer chamber is going to be higher than the red baffle. It will rise to the height of the black baffle to the left of it, rendering the red one useless. In a 20g sump I don't know that you could add enough mud to make a difference in your system; it will only be a few inches wide right?

broke1 · 12/02/2015, 04:31 AM

Corelli is right about the baffle height. The red one will be there just to hold mud/sand/rock from getting to the skimmer, the black one is what will dictate your height. While I think any refugium is useful, it really depends on what you want it to do. If it's mostly about pod growth without predators than any size is fine, but a small one may not be the end all for nutrient export.

Jahalu · 12/02/2015, 09:41 AM

Thanks for the replies. Essentially you're correct- the red one would just be to hold the mud. Do you think the water will circulate enough through that section? Maybe I could drill some holes in the red one to help the water circulate a bit more through there? I keep reconfiguring the baffles on paper, but always seem to wind up with mud going under. And yes, I know it is a small refugium. It will just be a few inches wide. Really just a predator free place for pods, was not even thinking about nutrient export. Just wanted to supplement my goby as it grows.

Coelli · 12/02/2015, 10:21 AM

Honestly I'd skip the mud and just add more LR anywhere you can (in the sump and DT). Also, remove your sock. You won't have crystal clear water but the sock is catching pods as they go through the system. If you add chaeto to the skimmer section (using the baffle) it may float up and bits get caught in the skimmer. I use a piece of plastic canvas along the edge of my fuge to prevent chaeto from getting into my return.

If you truly want a refugium is it possible to rebuild your sump? When I built mine I put the refugium on the left side, return in the middle, drain & skimmer in the same section on the right. Flow to the fuge is from a tee off the return, with a ball valve. It can be turned off for cleaning, harvesting chaeto, etc. and because it's to the side and not the middle I was able to make it quite tall and as wide as possible (here's a pic right after it was set up: http://imgur.com/pf7PkPw). Just a thought. You'd also regain some of that head pressure you're losing by your return having to travel so far.

I'm successfully keeping a healthy male blue mandarin in a 65g but I built the tank with that goal in mind - as large a fuge as possible for a small sump, a rock wall that covers the entire back of the tank, and didn't skimp on the LR in the tank itself. I don't run socks and I broadcast feed the tank frequently to feed both coral and pods. My mandarin also eats planaria which is handy.

I bought him from a LFS that has a large copper-treated system where a lot of the fish are in tiny open-topped compartments. He'd been there for about 10 days and was a little skinny but was still trying to jump out of his prison, so I took a chance. He didn't gain too much weight at first but he spontaneously started eating mysis and a few months later he's starting to get a little fat, even. So just look for more ways you can stack your system in a mandy's favor, there may be more you're not thinking of!

Er... All that said, I'm adding a 30g remote display fuge to my setup soon to give the mandy an even better support system. I love that little guy. I might have to lose the in-sump fuge to hold the extra water from the new tank when the return shuts off, but it would be worth it. You could maybe consider something like that too?

A1t2o · 12/02/2015, 10:42 AM

Skip the mud, I'd go with chaeto and a light. You can keep the idea of adding a baffle to hold in the chaeto and keep it from getting into the skimmer. The only reason I would put a substrate in is if I wanted a rooting macroalgae to grow (or if you were to keep any livestock that need a substrate in there). If you do, then you need a screen to prevent any pieces of algae from getting up to and taking over your display tank.

Jahalu · 12/02/2015, 07:45 PM

Thanks for the help everyone. I think I will skip the mud and section off part for chaeto and live rock rubble on bottom. I will start to think about rebuilding the skimmer. Might be a good project for next spring. Always a work in progress. �� thanks again!

12/02/2015, 01:10 AM	#3
Coelli Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Tujunga, CA Posts: 1,443	I think your baffle height is incorrect but maybe that's just your drawing. The water level in your skimmer chamber is going to be higher than the red baffle. It will rise to the height of the black baffle to the left of it, rendering the red one useless. In a 20g sump I don't know that you could add enough mud to make a difference in your system; it will only be a few inches wide right? __________________ "Get a reef tank!" they said. "It'll be relaxing!" they said. 65g mixed reef, 30g display fuge, 20L sump/pod fuge, ATI 4x24 + 2 Kessil A360NEs, Aquamaxx EM100, Gyre 130

12/02/2015, 04:31 AM	#4
broke1 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: IL Posts: 1,721	Corelli is right about the baffle height. The red one will be there just to hold mud/sand/rock from getting to the skimmer, the black one is what will dictate your height. While I think any refugium is useful, it really depends on what you want it to do. If it's mostly about pod growth without predators than any size is fine, but a small one may not be the end all for nutrient export. __________________ Removed. Current Tank Info: Too big, yet too small

12/02/2015, 10:21 AM	#6
Coelli Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Tujunga, CA Posts: 1,443	Honestly I'd skip the mud and just add more LR anywhere you can (in the sump and DT). Also, remove your sock. You won't have crystal clear water but the sock is catching pods as they go through the system. If you add chaeto to the skimmer section (using the baffle) it may float up and bits get caught in the skimmer. I use a piece of plastic canvas along the edge of my fuge to prevent chaeto from getting into my return. If you truly want a refugium is it possible to rebuild your sump? When I built mine I put the refugium on the left side, return in the middle, drain & skimmer in the same section on the right. Flow to the fuge is from a tee off the return, with a ball valve. It can be turned off for cleaning, harvesting chaeto, etc. and because it's to the side and not the middle I was able to make it quite tall and as wide as possible (here's a pic right after it was set up: http://imgur.com/pf7PkPw). Just a thought. You'd also regain some of that head pressure you're losing by your return having to travel so far. I'm successfully keeping a healthy male blue mandarin in a 65g but I built the tank with that goal in mind - as large a fuge as possible for a small sump, a rock wall that covers the entire back of the tank, and didn't skimp on the LR in the tank itself. I don't run socks and I broadcast feed the tank frequently to feed both coral and pods. My mandarin also eats planaria which is handy. I bought him from a LFS that has a large copper-treated system where a lot of the fish are in tiny open-topped compartments. He'd been there for about 10 days and was a little skinny but was still trying to jump out of his prison, so I took a chance. He didn't gain too much weight at first but he spontaneously started eating mysis and a few months later he's starting to get a little fat, even. So just look for more ways you can stack your system in a mandy's favor, there may be more you're not thinking of! Er... All that said, I'm adding a 30g remote display fuge to my setup soon to give the mandy an even better support system. I love that little guy. I might have to lose the in-sump fuge to hold the extra water from the new tank when the return shuts off, but it would be worth it. You could maybe consider something like that too? __________________ "Get a reef tank!" they said. "It'll be relaxing!" they said. 65g mixed reef, 30g display fuge, 20L sump/pod fuge, ATI 4x24 + 2 Kessil A360NEs, Aquamaxx EM100, Gyre 130

12/02/2015, 09:41 AM	#5
Jahalu Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 46	Thanks for the replies. Essentially you're correct- the red one would just be to hold the mud. Do you think the water will circulate enough through that section? Maybe I could drill some holes in the red one to help the water circulate a bit more through there? I keep reconfiguring the baffles on paper, but always seem to wind up with mud going under. And yes, I know it is a small refugium. It will just be a few inches wide. Really just a predator free place for pods, was not even thinking about nutrient export. Just wanted to supplement my goby as it grows.

12/02/2015, 10:42 AM	#7
A1t2o Moved On Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Mankato, MN Posts: 382	Skip the mud, I'd go with chaeto and a light. You can keep the idea of adding a baffle to hold in the chaeto and keep it from getting into the skimmer. The only reason I would put a substrate in is if I wanted a rooting macroalgae to grow (or if you were to keep any livestock that need a substrate in there). If you do, then you need a screen to prevent any pieces of algae from getting up to and taking over your display tank.

12/02/2015, 07:45 PM	#8
Jahalu Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 46	Thanks for the help everyone. I think I will skip the mud and section off part for chaeto and live rock rubble on bottom. I will start to think about rebuilding the skimmer. Might be a good project for next spring. Always a work in progress. �� thanks again!