LED, T5, MH, or the Sunporch

Bingo22 · 12/08/2015, 09:23 PM

After searching so many forums and reading endless lighting discussion, I have thoroughly concluded that no one truly has an idea which light source is best . Its almost 2016 and people are lost. Color spectrums and intensities are as opinionated as ancient aliens. It's so frustrating because I'm looking at the new AP700's but still lean towards T5's because they are so so simple and they work. Why hasn't some marine biologist put out a proven graph yet?

Reefstarter2 · 12/08/2015, 09:33 PM

I got my reef in a sun room that gets light for a few hours during the day , but not all day so I use halides and T5s . I have to say the corals that get the most sunlight are growing like crazy and the sunlight drowns out the halides so you can't even tell they are on . but to answer the question , measuring light is not so simple . there are many different aspects to it . UVA , UVB , UVC green red blue , yellow ,.... white ??? where in sunlight is white ? theres Gamma , and all kinds of other radiation in sunlight . Ever see a tanning bed with Leds ? Nope me either Just my opinion but I like the kiss method . you have a light , you turn it on and go . I still find myself wanting Leds even though I KNOW they have none of the radiation in them . trend ? fad ? Maybe . but I stick with what is simple and works

Nano sapiens · 12/08/2015, 09:59 PM

The reason why so many different lighting schemes can work is largely due to the fact that the photosynthetic coral primarily use light in the 400nm to 480nm range (violet to blue) to nourish their zooxanthellae (symbiotic dinoflagellates). The lower energy wavelengths that we see as 'green', 'orange', etc. don't concern them nearly as much, but make a big difference as to how our eyes see the light.

There are many graphs on the web showing light spectrum/relative intensities at various depths in the ocean. However, corlas don't necessarily need to have the complete 'natural' light field mimicked as long as the all important violet/blue wavelengths are present in sufficent intensity.

This is a graph of the natural light present at various depths (note the drop off with depth of many of the 'warmer' colors such as 'red', while violet and blue remain steady):

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012...m/image005.jpg

This a graph of the absorption spectrum of corals' Zooxanthellae (the 'Red' peak would only be available in shallower water):

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012...m/image007.jpg

This is a graph of a Radion LED spectral output (notice how it comes fairly close to the absorption spectrum of the corals' Zooxanthellae:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012...m/image007.jpg

Nano sapiens · 12/08/2015, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefstarter2

I got my reef in a sun room that gets light for a few hours during the day , but not all day so I use halides and T5s . I have to say the corals that get the most sunlight are growing like crazy and the sunlight drowns out the halides so you can't even tell they are on . but to answer the question , measuring light is not so simple . there are many different aspects to it . UVA , UVB , UVC green red blue , yellow ,.... white ??? where in sunlight is white ? theres Gamma , and all kinds of other radiation in sunlight . Ever see a tanning bed with Leds ? Nope me either Just my opinion but I like the kiss method . you have a light , you turn it on and go . I still find myself wanting Leds even though I KNOW they have none of the radiation in them . trend ? fad ? Maybe . but I stick with what is simple and works

1. UV-C (100-280nm) is only available on earth in germicidal lamps (cosmic sources blocked by the earth's ozone layer/atmosphere).

2. UV-B (280-315nm) is mostly blocked by the earth's atmosphere.

3. UV-C (315-400nm) is available to corals, mostly in the upper wavelengths of the range.

4. Gamma/X-Rays: A large fraction screened by the earth's atmosphere.

5. Any electromagnetic wavelenghts of lower energy (infrared, radio waves, etc.) have somewhat limited to virtually no penetration.

What sunlight provides to organisms on earth/in the water is all the visible wavelengths (what we call 'white' light) in various quantities determined first by the atmosphere...and then the water depth. Luckily for us, corals are very adaptable since they have to adjust in nature to living at various depths which modify the light field (among other factors).

Bingo22 · 12/08/2015, 10:40 PM

Thank you for the info. This website is Great! However while searching advanced aquarist for 10 mins , I found 2 completely contradicting pieces.

1. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2014/5/aafeature

2. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog...of-stony-coral

One says red light is most effective and the other says red light is most harmful. It is not very clear for the " Average" hobby enthusiast. Which goes back to my original post. Sorry im just about to drop some casholla on lights and I'm not sure if research has caught up with technology yet.

Bingo22 · 12/08/2015, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nano sapiens

1. UV-C (100-280nm) is only available on earth in germicidal lamps (cosmic sources blocked by the earth's ozone layer/atmosphere).

2. UV-B (280-315nm) is mostly blocked by the earth's atmosphere.

3. UV-C (315-400nm) is available to corals, mostly in the upper wavelengths of the range.

4. Gamma/X-Rays: A large fraction screened by the earth's atmosphere.

5. Any electromagnetic wavelenghts of lower energy (infrared, radio waves, etc.) have somewhat limited to virtually no penetration.

What sunlight provides to organisms on earth/in the water is all the visible wavelengths (what we call 'white' light) in various quantities determined first by the atmosphere...and then the water depth. Luckily for us, corals are very adaptable since they have to adjust in nature to living at various depths which modify the light field (among other factors).

So since corrals adapt in nature to various depths ( 1 foot -hundreds of feet), shouldn't there already be a proven light parameter for the small range of 12 inches-30 inches ( the typical tank depth)? Maybe im too hopeful for humanity. i guess ill go with a T5/Led/MH hybrid and put the tank on my sunporch.

Nano sapiens · 12/09/2015, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo22

So since corrals adapt in nature to various depths ( 1 foot -hundreds of feet), shouldn't there already be a proven light parameter for the small range of 12 inches-30 inches ( the typical tank depth)? Maybe im too hopeful for humanity. i guess ill go with a T5/Led/MH hybrid and put the tank on my sunporch.

Light attenuation in the aquarium is very different than in the ocean. Pulling numbers out of a hat, one yard of depth in the ocean might equal one inch depth in an aquarium (gives the general idea). Has to do with the great differences between natural light and light generated by man-made sources.

If all this lighting stuff is a headache, best to go with proven technologies from the most reputable/experienced supplier you can find (Giesseman, ATI come to mind). A T5/LED hyrid is quite popular these days and is what I'd consider if I still had a medium to large tank.

Nano sapiens · 12/09/2015, 12:21 AM

Duplicate

Nano sapiens · 12/09/2015, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo22

Thank you for the info. This website is Great! However while searching advanced aquarist for 10 mins , I found 2 completely contradicting pieces.

1. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2014/5/aafeature

2. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog...of-stony-coral

One says red light is most effective and the other says red light is most harmful. It is not very clear for the " Average" hobby enthusiast. Which goes back to my original post. Sorry im just about to drop some casholla on lights and I'm not sure if research has caught up with technology yet.

Red light in limited quanties is very natural in shallower water. Some light sources build iin a decent amount, some extremely little. I like a bit of red which makes the fish and corals look more natural to me, but it can be argued that corals don't need it (especailly deeper water types) as red is filtered out fairly quickly in the natural environment.

It's only harmful when it is too intense and/or if a coral is placed under red light without slow acclimation as it can cause corals to bleach (expel their zooxanthellae).

shifty51008 · 12/09/2015, 04:05 AM

This is the main reason i try to get new reefers to use t5's or mh's for their lights, they are mainly just plug and play whereas leds there are to many things to adjust and if you dont know how to adjust the spectrum and stuff they are not as good as everyone thinks, alot just adjust to what color's they like when in reality that mostly isnt the light the corals need.

Spartanman22 · 12/09/2015, 05:53 AM

I have used LEDs for the last couple years on my 25 gallon, but I am going back to MH/T5 on my upgrade. LEDs are great, but I will always prefer a quality MH/T5 unit over LEDs. You get much better, more even distribution of light, and they just seem to put a little something extra that LEDs haven't quite been able to replicate yet.

firemountain · 12/09/2015, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shifty51008

This is the main reason i try to get new reefers to use t5's or mh's for their lights, they are mainly just plug and play whereas leds there are to many things to adjust and if you dont know how to adjust the spectrum and stuff they are not as good as everyone thinks, alot just adjust to what color's they like when in reality that mostly isnt the light the corals need.

+1.

Once you start introducing corals, there is definitely a learning curve with LED's. I just added a T5 to my Kessils, mainly for clam and SPS.

Think a hybrid setup is the way to go....even BRS chose a LED and T5 setup for their new build.

Nano sapiens · 12/09/2015, 10:18 AM

Even coverage is a main difficulty with LEDs. Many have found that they have to use quite a few more units over their tanks than suggested by the manufacturers, especially for finicky SPS. An excellent approach to LED configuration is illustrated by the LANI system where the LEDs are run at lower power, but there are many more of them nearly covering the entire tank. Both of these methods are quite expensive, however.

Hard to dismiss that a T5 + LED hybrid is a more cost effective solution. There is even a LED tube now that mimics a T5 in shape consisting of many LEDs in sequence, so that's another possibility for those who want to go 'all LED' and not have to replace bulbs, but still keep the T5 spread/form factor:

http://www.reefedition.com/euroquati...aquarium-lamp/

12/08/2015, 09:23 PM	#1
Bingo22 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 10	LED, T5, MH, or the Sunporch After searching so many forums and reading endless lighting discussion, I have thoroughly concluded that no one truly has an idea which light source is best . Its almost 2016 and people are lost. Color spectrums and intensities are as opinionated as ancient aliens. It's so frustrating because I'm looking at the new AP700's but still lean towards T5's because they are so so simple and they work. Why hasn't some marine biologist put out a proven graph yet?

12/08/2015, 09:59 PM	#3
Nano sapiens Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: East Bay, Northern California Posts: 658	The reason why so many different lighting schemes can work is largely due to the fact that the photosynthetic coral primarily use light in the 400nm to 480nm range (violet to blue) to nourish their zooxanthellae (symbiotic dinoflagellates). The lower energy wavelengths that we see as 'green', 'orange', etc. don't concern them nearly as much, but make a big difference as to how our eyes see the light. There are many graphs on the web showing light spectrum/relative intensities at various depths in the ocean. However, corlas don't necessarily need to have the complete 'natural' light field mimicked as long as the all important violet/blue wavelengths are present in sufficent intensity. This is a graph of the natural light present at various depths (note the drop off with depth of many of the 'warmer' colors such as 'red', while violet and blue remain steady): http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012...m/image005.jpg This a graph of the absorption spectrum of corals' Zooxanthellae (the 'Red' peak would only be available in shallower water): http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012...m/image007.jpg This is a graph of a Radion LED spectral output (notice how it comes fairly close to the absorption spectrum of the corals' Zooxanthellae: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012...m/image007.jpg Last edited by Nano sapiens; 12/08/2015 at 10:12 PM.

12/09/2015, 04:05 AM	#10
shifty51008 12-5 Chiefs record Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 10,134	This is the main reason i try to get new reefers to use t5's or mh's for their lights, they are mainly just plug and play whereas leds there are to many things to adjust and if you dont know how to adjust the spectrum and stuff they are not as good as everyone thinks, alot just adjust to what color's they like when in reality that mostly isnt the light the corals need. __________________ 75 gal. mixed DT, 100 gal. sump, 50 gal. fuge, Clownfish breeder

12/08/2015, 09:33 PM	#2
Reefstarter2 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 295	I got my reef in a sun room that gets light for a few hours during the day , but not all day so I use halides and T5s . I have to say the corals that get the most sunlight are growing like crazy and the sunlight drowns out the halides so you can't even tell they are on . but to answer the question , measuring light is not so simple . there are many different aspects to it . UVA , UVB , UVC green red blue , yellow ,.... white ??? where in sunlight is white ? theres Gamma , and all kinds of other radiation in sunlight . Ever see a tanning bed with Leds ? Nope me either Just my opinion but I like the kiss method . you have a light , you turn it on and go . I still find myself wanting Leds even though I KNOW they have none of the radiation in them . trend ? fad ? Maybe . but I stick with what is simple and works

12/08/2015, 10:40 PM	#5
Bingo22 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 10	Thank you for the info. This website is Great! However while searching advanced aquarist for 10 mins , I found 2 completely contradicting pieces. 1. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2014/5/aafeature 2. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog...of-stony-coral One says red light is most effective and the other says red light is most harmful. It is not very clear for the " Average" hobby enthusiast. Which goes back to my original post. Sorry im just about to drop some casholla on lights and I'm not sure if research has caught up with technology yet.

12/09/2015, 12:21 AM	#8
Nano sapiens Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: East Bay, Northern California Posts: 658	Duplicate

12/09/2015, 05:53 AM	#11
Spartanman22 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Oswego Posts: 1,314	I have used LEDs for the last couple years on my 25 gallon, but I am going back to MH/T5 on my upgrade. LEDs are great, but I will always prefer a quality MH/T5 unit over LEDs. You get much better, more even distribution of light, and they just seem to put a little something extra that LEDs haven't quite been able to replicate yet.

12/09/2015, 10:18 AM	#13
Nano sapiens Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: East Bay, Northern California Posts: 658	Even coverage is a main difficulty with LEDs. Many have found that they have to use quite a few more units over their tanks than suggested by the manufacturers, especially for finicky SPS. An excellent approach to LED configuration is illustrated by the LANI system where the LEDs are run at lower power, but there are many more of them nearly covering the entire tank. Both of these methods are quite expensive, however. Hard to dismiss that a T5 + LED hybrid is a more cost effective solution. There is even a LED tube now that mimics a T5 in shape consisting of many LEDs in sequence, so that's another possibility for those who want to go 'all LED' and not have to replace bulbs, but still keep the T5 spread/form factor: http://www.reefedition.com/euroquati...aquarium-lamp/