150 gallon sump Question

Cameron2324 · 02/03/2016, 11:56 PM

I recently bought a new tank (54 Gallon Corner with overflow) I am planning a DIY sump project for a 150G tank I currently have. Reason being the sump it came with is a 7 gallon and I don't want to add water daily as there is no room for a auto top off. The build will happen in may and be documented on here. I had to go with a corner due to space I wish I could have set up my 150 gallon!

What my question is I am thinking of setting up the 150 gallon as my sump in the basement and run my plumbing through the floor. I would build a work bench out of treated 2X4's and will sit directly below the display tank. the over flow and return line would be hard plumbed from the sump to the display tank. Getting the plumbing set up is not an issue my friend is a commercial plumber and volunteered to help me run it, my problems lie else where with my return pump, the water turn over rate and heating issues. I like the 150 as my sump so my 54 gallon system can be come in essence a 125 gallon system and get as much water volume as possible. Has anyone ever done this? If so what issues have you ran into?

Issues that I see

1. the house is in Michigan so the basement can get very cold in the winter (no heat runs in the basement) so my heating could be an issue.

Idea to Fix problem 1- I am trying to find a way to insulate the sump and run multiple heaters in the sump some of which will be shut off in the summer. any other ideas would help I do think that the basement will help cool the display tank in the summer removing the need for a chiller.

2. because the sump will be almost 3x the size of the display tank I'm worried about my turn over rate for the water. would this put too much flow in the tank if I put a proper turnover rate in the display tank? can I get away with power heads in the sump or is it really needed.

Problem 3 how do I calculate how much force my return pump would need in order to push the water 8 to 10 feet up before it reaches the tank? Any recommendations on a reliable return pump if this is possible?

I am in the planning stage please let me know if you think this is even possible. If you see any other issues or have a solution to the problem please let me know!

Thank you in advance.

yacn · 02/04/2016, 08:17 AM

I live in Michigan also. I have my sump in the basement. But I have the exact opposite set up you do.

My 150 tank is on the 1st floor as my display tank, and I have 35 gallon acrylic sump/fuge in my basement. I plumbed everything using PVC pipe through the floor. My sump is located in my utility room in the basement....so my furnaces and hot water tank tend to keep that room a bit warmer than the rest of the basement during the winter. I use a single 300 watt heater and it keeps my tank around 76-78 degrees. I have (3) 250 watt MH's and (2) 160 watt VHO's heating up my water a bit and installed (2) 4" ice cap fans to help keep the lights from heating things up too much. In the summer my furnaces are used for central air and keep the basement cool. I don't need a chiller.

My sump sits on an old wooden console TV.....remember those!? I gutted the console and use that space underneath to hold equipment, buckets, etc. It is 10 feet from my sump to the display tank. I ran 2" PVC pipe to help lower the head pressure, and also because my return pump used 2" unions. My return piping runs straight up through the floor and then has an elbow to run it horizontal just underneath my display tank (as a manifold) and then have (4) one inch PVC lines going from this 2" horizontal manifold back into my tank. I have twin built in overflows utilizing 2 of the one inch return lines and the other 2 one inch return lines are used for closed loop system I built to help increase flow in the display tank. I drilled holes into the closed loop section that sits across the top section of the tank to return water into the tank. I am experiencing 13 to 15 feet of head pressure. My overflows can only handle 600 GPH so 1200 GPH total since I have 2 of them.

I used a Dolphin 3000/4000 pump for the past 10 years and it worked perfectly for my needs. It handled the head pressure and gave me the perfect flow amount without having to reduce the flow with a ball valve. I am in the process of replacing this pump due to it's age, and it has been a chore finding a replacement...as they don't make this model pump anymore. Most pumps are either too powerful for my needs or don't have enough power for the head pressure and flow!! I have it narrowed down a replacement to Iwaki 70 RLT....and I'll have to reduce my 2" piping down to 1" to hook this pump up.

I personally like Dolphin pumps and had great results with the one I've owned the past 10 years. If you can get away with their model 4750 I would highly consider it....get their type-3 seal made for reef aquariums....it's worth the extra money. But this pump chokes out at 12 feet head pressure so I'm not sure it will work for your situation. I'm not a fan of Reeflo pumps...I've read too many posts about shaft seal failures and they use a cheap seal to begin with. For some reason Dolphin discontinued their model 3000/4000 and Reeflo discontinued their model Goby which would work perfectly for our setups. Iwaki and Panworld seem like good alternatives and offer wide variety of sizes to meet your needs. DC pumps are a consideration especially considering they use less energy, but I've found them to be way too expensive for the models that can handle the flow rate I want at the head pressure my plumbing causes....ie Red Dragon & Abyzz DC pumps.

What I love about having the sump in the basement: Lot's of room to work with!! You don't hear the noise caused from return pump or protein skimmer, etc. Although you can still hear the gurgling noise from the overflows on the display tank....my gurgling noise is somewhat muffled since I have built in cupboards above my tank hiding my lighting, etc. Located right next to my sump I have (2) 40 gallon food grade Rubber Made garbage cans (white) that are filled with RO water automatically from my RO filter using a float valve in one of the garbage cans. I have the 2 garbage cans connected with flexible hose, bulk head fittings and ball valve. I can turn off the ball valve and make salt water for water changes in one can while still using the other can as fresh water top off for my tank. I use http://autotopoff.com/ to top off evaporated water automatically in my sump. When doing water changes I have Python siphon that I run from display tank through the floor and into the floor drain located in basement right in front of my sump. Then I drop mag drive pump fitted with flexible hose into the garbage can with freshly made salt water and fill up sump for water change. Takes me less than 1/2 hour.

Since you are running the 150 as your sump and the 54 corner as your display I would think you won't need nearly the flow rate I do. It seems the trend today is to use slower return flows between tank and sump and then use power heads in display tank to move the water around. I personally can't stand the look of power heads in my display tank, even the type that attach to the sides like eco tech. I built up my live rock in front of my overflows in an attempt to hide them. I even painted the back of my tank black to match the color of my overflows in an attempt to blend in with the background, and used schedule 80 grey pvc for my closed loop system so lessen it's appearance...luckily different color algae has grown on my closed loop pvc kind of hiding that too.

Here is link to calculate your head pressure:
http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php...oss-calculator

PM me with your phone number...I'd be happy to chat and answer any questions you might have. My tank is 10 years old and I've learned a lot through trial, error and reading forums like this. If room allows it I would put the larger tank upstairs....although I don't think the 54 corner will make an ideal sump.

Cameron2324 · 02/04/2016, 10:08 AM

Hello I wanted to tank you for the detailed response I am glad that it is possible to do what I am looking for in the sump. I have not looked at the head preasure calculator but it is going to be very helpful. I am currently living in California but am moving to Michigan in April completing work on our house and am planning on completing the build in may I currently have a 55G set up out here with a 40 gallon sump. my main issue with the house were we are moving to is shear floor space the corner tank was my one and only option, the 54G was the biggest I could go with.

I just had my bother in law pick up the tank and it came with a T5 Lighting system a UV sterilizer and the 7G sump. could you post some pictures of the setup you have I would love to see it.

Is there any ideas on how to solve my heating issue? would it be possible to wrap the sump in blankets in the winter to insulate it and help the loss of heat?

Also the tank is going to be in Jackson so its just right up 94 from you!

yacn · 02/04/2016, 02:51 PM

I deer hunt in Jackson Oct-Dec....very familiar with the area.

And totally understand dealing with floor space. I initially was going to buy a 90 corner tank due to space. But then the wife decided to gut our family room and wanted to install custom wood book shelves.....it didn't cost much more to add custom wood shelving/cupboards, etc for built in 150 gallon fish tank....yeah!!

And yes I need to post some pics....will do one day soon.

I'm guessing you can insulate the sump with foam insulation instead of blankets...they sell multiple thicknesses and density foam sheets that can be cut and used for insulating purposes at home depot/lowes.

You can also consider cutting a hole in the sheet metal duct work from your furnace in the basement and install a grill/register to heat the basement area where your sump is located.... http://www.homedepot.com/p/TruAire-1...4X08/202535816 assuming you have gas forced air and ducts that run through that area...if you don't have duct work in the area your sump is located in, but have gas forced air furnace with duct work in the basement you can run flexible duct into the sump room to help heat it. http://www.homedepot.com/p/6-in-x-25...X300/100396935 I'm not sure your layout or situation just trying to come up with economical alternatives to add some heat in the winter to your basement.

If your basement isn't heated at all, and the basement walls aren't insulated nor any carpeting on the floors...I am going to assume it will get really cold down there in the winter...like 40-50 degrees. That's a big difference in temperature to try and heat up 150 gallon sump to 75 degrees or higher located in that cold of an area. If that's the case consider building walls around the sump area ceiling to floor out of 2x2 or 2x4's studs, and particle board or plywood sheets for walls, and rolled fiberglass insulation stapled to that to insulate the area instead of trying to just insulate the sump itself.

Cameron2324 · 02/04/2016, 03:33 PM

nice I deer hunt on my aunts property in grass lake! as far as the heating issue goes it does seem to be the biggest issue. the basement is one room so it is a cement foundation and a cement floor. The problem with building a room around it is my wife is not wanting to put a ton of money into the tank and I am still trying to find a way to convince her to let me drill holes in the hardwood floors. so I think I would have to be insulated and run three to 4 heaters. I may run the tank on my canister filter for a week or two when it does get cold so I can check out and experiment with the heating of the system. and there is no heat in the basement I will have to check and see if there is duct work running down there to see if I could at least keep the basement 60-65 degrees to cut my heaters a break.

Cameron2324 · 02/04/2016, 03:34 PM

Also cant wait to see some pictures of your set up!

clowndog · 02/04/2016, 05:58 PM

Will you consider a cold water saltwater fish/reef tank instead? This will solve much of your heating problem. In fact, being able to have a sump in the basement to have temperature down is perfect! In the summer, you will just need to mainly cool down the main tank not the sump provided that your return pump is not too strong. This will save you lots of energy bills!

Cameron2324 · 02/04/2016, 08:23 PM

My wife and I are big into the tropical reefs and are looking at having a little piece of the reef in our home I would not be against a cold water tank but I don't think we would love it in our house if that make sense.

scubadan206 · 02/06/2016, 11:12 PM

My DT is 120 gallons. My new sump in the basement is a little over 375 gallons. The idea of insulating a room around the sump might be your only option for a reasonable cost to heating your sump.
Although if you have 1000 watts of heater in the sump, that might be enough to heat your basement.
With that much evaporation, in that scenario, you will grow a very healthy mold population in the basement.
Oh! That means you need a dehumidifier. Which will put out a bunch of heat.....
Let's carry it further. Put your growout tank in the basement and light it with a big honkin' 400 watt MH.
Light your tank with Mh in winter and LED's in summer?

Cameron2324 · 02/11/2016, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scubadan206

My DT is 120 gallons. My new sump in the basement is a little over 375 gallons. The idea of insulating a room around the sump might be your only option for a reasonable cost to heating your sump.
Although if you have 1000 watts of heater in the sump, that might be enough to heat your basement.
With that much evaporation, in that scenario, you will grow a very healthy mold population in the basement.
Oh! That means you need a dehumidifier. Which will put out a bunch of heat.....
Let's carry it further. Put your growout tank in the basement and light it with a big honkin' 400 watt MH.
Light your tank with Mh in winter and LED's in summer?

I was worried about the molding issue the more I look into this I think that I may just put a 55 G tank behind one of the couches with an auto top off pump in it I just don't want to be dealing with putting water in the tank every day. that was one of the main reasons I was looking at having the sump in the basement but due to the heating issues and mold I think I am going to have to remain with my 7G tank.

scubadan206 · 02/11/2016, 12:58 PM

My ATO is a 10 gallon tank next to my main DT. I too want to get rid of all the stuff around the DT and is a main reason for putting my sump in the basement. I use my ATO tank for a DIY style kalkwasser doser. I dump spoonfulls of kalk into the tank when I refill it. I have a small powerhead in-tank that runs for 4 minutes every three hours. The kalk will create a crust on top of the water and prevent CO2 from lowering the PH. The supplied pump from Tunze has run for over two years in the kalk slurry with no problems.
Daniel.

02/03/2016, 11:56 PM	#1
Cameron2324 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 29	150 gallon sump Question I recently bought a new tank (54 Gallon Corner with overflow) I am planning a DIY sump project for a 150G tank I currently have. Reason being the sump it came with is a 7 gallon and I don't want to add water daily as there is no room for a auto top off. The build will happen in may and be documented on here. I had to go with a corner due to space I wish I could have set up my 150 gallon! What my question is I am thinking of setting up the 150 gallon as my sump in the basement and run my plumbing through the floor. I would build a work bench out of treated 2X4's and will sit directly below the display tank. the over flow and return line would be hard plumbed from the sump to the display tank. Getting the plumbing set up is not an issue my friend is a commercial plumber and volunteered to help me run it, my problems lie else where with my return pump, the water turn over rate and heating issues. I like the 150 as my sump so my 54 gallon system can be come in essence a 125 gallon system and get as much water volume as possible. Has anyone ever done this? If so what issues have you ran into? Issues that I see 1. the house is in Michigan so the basement can get very cold in the winter (no heat runs in the basement) so my heating could be an issue. Idea to Fix problem 1- I am trying to find a way to insulate the sump and run multiple heaters in the sump some of which will be shut off in the summer. any other ideas would help I do think that the basement will help cool the display tank in the summer removing the need for a chiller. 2. because the sump will be almost 3x the size of the display tank I'm worried about my turn over rate for the water. would this put too much flow in the tank if I put a proper turnover rate in the display tank? can I get away with power heads in the sump or is it really needed. Problem 3 how do I calculate how much force my return pump would need in order to push the water 8 to 10 feet up before it reaches the tank? Any recommendations on a reliable return pump if this is possible? I am in the planning stage please let me know if you think this is even possible. If you see any other issues or have a solution to the problem please let me know! Thank you in advance. __________________ Read, Then Read, Then read some more, always ask questions. 55G corner tank with overflow, Dual T5 fixture, Eshopps protein skimmer, 9W UV sterilizer, MR-20 media reactor. Current Tank Info: 55g small reef 2 corals 1 anenome with 40G sump

02/04/2016, 08:17 AM	#2
yacn Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Detroit, Michigan Posts: 212	I live in Michigan also. I have my sump in the basement. But I have the exact opposite set up you do. My 150 tank is on the 1st floor as my display tank, and I have 35 gallon acrylic sump/fuge in my basement. I plumbed everything using PVC pipe through the floor. My sump is located in my utility room in the basement....so my furnaces and hot water tank tend to keep that room a bit warmer than the rest of the basement during the winter. I use a single 300 watt heater and it keeps my tank around 76-78 degrees. I have (3) 250 watt MH's and (2) 160 watt VHO's heating up my water a bit and installed (2) 4" ice cap fans to help keep the lights from heating things up too much. In the summer my furnaces are used for central air and keep the basement cool. I don't need a chiller. My sump sits on an old wooden console TV.....remember those!? I gutted the console and use that space underneath to hold equipment, buckets, etc. It is 10 feet from my sump to the display tank. I ran 2" PVC pipe to help lower the head pressure, and also because my return pump used 2" unions. My return piping runs straight up through the floor and then has an elbow to run it horizontal just underneath my display tank (as a manifold) and then have (4) one inch PVC lines going from this 2" horizontal manifold back into my tank. I have twin built in overflows utilizing 2 of the one inch return lines and the other 2 one inch return lines are used for closed loop system I built to help increase flow in the display tank. I drilled holes into the closed loop section that sits across the top section of the tank to return water into the tank. I am experiencing 13 to 15 feet of head pressure. My overflows can only handle 600 GPH so 1200 GPH total since I have 2 of them. I used a Dolphin 3000/4000 pump for the past 10 years and it worked perfectly for my needs. It handled the head pressure and gave me the perfect flow amount without having to reduce the flow with a ball valve. I am in the process of replacing this pump due to it's age, and it has been a chore finding a replacement...as they don't make this model pump anymore. Most pumps are either too powerful for my needs or don't have enough power for the head pressure and flow!! I have it narrowed down a replacement to Iwaki 70 RLT....and I'll have to reduce my 2" piping down to 1" to hook this pump up. I personally like Dolphin pumps and had great results with the one I've owned the past 10 years. If you can get away with their model 4750 I would highly consider it....get their type-3 seal made for reef aquariums....it's worth the extra money. But this pump chokes out at 12 feet head pressure so I'm not sure it will work for your situation. I'm not a fan of Reeflo pumps...I've read too many posts about shaft seal failures and they use a cheap seal to begin with. For some reason Dolphin discontinued their model 3000/4000 and Reeflo discontinued their model Goby which would work perfectly for our setups. Iwaki and Panworld seem like good alternatives and offer wide variety of sizes to meet your needs. DC pumps are a consideration especially considering they use less energy, but I've found them to be way too expensive for the models that can handle the flow rate I want at the head pressure my plumbing causes....ie Red Dragon & Abyzz DC pumps. What I love about having the sump in the basement: Lot's of room to work with!! You don't hear the noise caused from return pump or protein skimmer, etc. Although you can still hear the gurgling noise from the overflows on the display tank....my gurgling noise is somewhat muffled since I have built in cupboards above my tank hiding my lighting, etc. Located right next to my sump I have (2) 40 gallon food grade Rubber Made garbage cans (white) that are filled with RO water automatically from my RO filter using a float valve in one of the garbage cans. I have the 2 garbage cans connected with flexible hose, bulk head fittings and ball valve. I can turn off the ball valve and make salt water for water changes in one can while still using the other can as fresh water top off for my tank. I use http://autotopoff.com/ to top off evaporated water automatically in my sump. When doing water changes I have Python siphon that I run from display tank through the floor and into the floor drain located in basement right in front of my sump. Then I drop mag drive pump fitted with flexible hose into the garbage can with freshly made salt water and fill up sump for water change. Takes me less than 1/2 hour. Since you are running the 150 as your sump and the 54 corner as your display I would think you won't need nearly the flow rate I do. It seems the trend today is to use slower return flows between tank and sump and then use power heads in display tank to move the water around. I personally can't stand the look of power heads in my display tank, even the type that attach to the sides like eco tech. I built up my live rock in front of my overflows in an attempt to hide them. I even painted the back of my tank black to match the color of my overflows in an attempt to blend in with the background, and used schedule 80 grey pvc for my closed loop system so lessen it's appearance...luckily different color algae has grown on my closed loop pvc kind of hiding that too. Here is link to calculate your head pressure: http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php...oss-calculator PM me with your phone number...I'd be happy to chat and answer any questions you might have. My tank is 10 years old and I've learned a lot through trial, error and reading forums like this. If room allows it I would put the larger tank upstairs....although I don't think the 54 corner will make an ideal sump. Last edited by yacn; 02/04/2016 at 09:07 AM.

02/04/2016, 10:08 AM	#3
Cameron2324 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 29	thank you! Hello I wanted to tank you for the detailed response I am glad that it is possible to do what I am looking for in the sump. I have not looked at the head preasure calculator but it is going to be very helpful. I am currently living in California but am moving to Michigan in April completing work on our house and am planning on completing the build in may I currently have a 55G set up out here with a 40 gallon sump. my main issue with the house were we are moving to is shear floor space the corner tank was my one and only option, the 54G was the biggest I could go with. I just had my bother in law pick up the tank and it came with a T5 Lighting system a UV sterilizer and the 7G sump. could you post some pictures of the setup you have I would love to see it. Is there any ideas on how to solve my heating issue? would it be possible to wrap the sump in blankets in the winter to insulate it and help the loss of heat? Also the tank is going to be in Jackson so its just right up 94 from you! __________________ Read, Then Read, Then read some more, always ask questions. 55G corner tank with overflow, Dual T5 fixture, Eshopps protein skimmer, 9W UV sterilizer, MR-20 media reactor. Current Tank Info: 55g small reef 2 corals 1 anenome with 40G sump

02/04/2016, 02:51 PM	#4
yacn Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Detroit, Michigan Posts: 212	I deer hunt in Jackson Oct-Dec....very familiar with the area. And totally understand dealing with floor space. I initially was going to buy a 90 corner tank due to space. But then the wife decided to gut our family room and wanted to install custom wood book shelves.....it didn't cost much more to add custom wood shelving/cupboards, etc for built in 150 gallon fish tank....yeah!! And yes I need to post some pics....will do one day soon. I'm guessing you can insulate the sump with foam insulation instead of blankets...they sell multiple thicknesses and density foam sheets that can be cut and used for insulating purposes at home depot/lowes. You can also consider cutting a hole in the sheet metal duct work from your furnace in the basement and install a grill/register to heat the basement area where your sump is located.... http://www.homedepot.com/p/TruAire-1...4X08/202535816 assuming you have gas forced air and ducts that run through that area...if you don't have duct work in the area your sump is located in, but have gas forced air furnace with duct work in the basement you can run flexible duct into the sump room to help heat it. http://www.homedepot.com/p/6-in-x-25...X300/100396935 I'm not sure your layout or situation just trying to come up with economical alternatives to add some heat in the winter to your basement. If your basement isn't heated at all, and the basement walls aren't insulated nor any carpeting on the floors...I am going to assume it will get really cold down there in the winter...like 40-50 degrees. That's a big difference in temperature to try and heat up 150 gallon sump to 75 degrees or higher located in that cold of an area. If that's the case consider building walls around the sump area ceiling to floor out of 2x2 or 2x4's studs, and particle board or plywood sheets for walls, and rolled fiberglass insulation stapled to that to insulate the area instead of trying to just insulate the sump itself. Last edited by yacn; 02/04/2016 at 02:57 PM.

02/04/2016, 03:33 PM	#5
Cameron2324 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 29	nice I deer hunt on my aunts property in grass lake! as far as the heating issue goes it does seem to be the biggest issue. the basement is one room so it is a cement foundation and a cement floor. The problem with building a room around it is my wife is not wanting to put a ton of money into the tank and I am still trying to find a way to convince her to let me drill holes in the hardwood floors. so I think I would have to be insulated and run three to 4 heaters. I may run the tank on my canister filter for a week or two when it does get cold so I can check out and experiment with the heating of the system. and there is no heat in the basement I will have to check and see if there is duct work running down there to see if I could at least keep the basement 60-65 degrees to cut my heaters a break. __________________ Read, Then Read, Then read some more, always ask questions. 55G corner tank with overflow, Dual T5 fixture, Eshopps protein skimmer, 9W UV sterilizer, MR-20 media reactor. Current Tank Info: 55g small reef 2 corals 1 anenome with 40G sump

02/04/2016, 03:34 PM	#6
Cameron2324 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 29	Also cant wait to see some pictures of your set up! __________________ Read, Then Read, Then read some more, always ask questions. 55G corner tank with overflow, Dual T5 fixture, Eshopps protein skimmer, 9W UV sterilizer, MR-20 media reactor. Current Tank Info: 55g small reef 2 corals 1 anenome with 40G sump

02/04/2016, 05:58 PM	#7
clowndog Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 17	Will you consider a cold water saltwater fish/reef tank instead? This will solve much of your heating problem. In fact, being able to have a sump in the basement to have temperature down is perfect! In the summer, you will just need to mainly cool down the main tank not the sump provided that your return pump is not too strong. This will save you lots of energy bills!

02/04/2016, 08:23 PM	#8
Cameron2324 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 29	My wife and I are big into the tropical reefs and are looking at having a little piece of the reef in our home I would not be against a cold water tank but I don't think we would love it in our house if that make sense. __________________ Read, Then Read, Then read some more, always ask questions. 55G corner tank with overflow, Dual T5 fixture, Eshopps protein skimmer, 9W UV sterilizer, MR-20 media reactor. Current Tank Info: 55g small reef 2 corals 1 anenome with 40G sump

02/06/2016, 11:12 PM	#9
scubadan206 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Kenosha WI Posts: 985	My DT is 120 gallons. My new sump in the basement is a little over 375 gallons. The idea of insulating a room around the sump might be your only option for a reasonable cost to heating your sump. Although if you have 1000 watts of heater in the sump, that might be enough to heat your basement. With that much evaporation, in that scenario, you will grow a very healthy mold population in the basement. Oh! That means you need a dehumidifier. Which will put out a bunch of heat..... Let's carry it further. Put your growout tank in the basement and light it with a big honkin' 400 watt MH. Light your tank with Mh in winter and LED's in summer?

02/11/2016, 12:58 PM	#11
scubadan206 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Kenosha WI Posts: 985	My ATO is a 10 gallon tank next to my main DT. I too want to get rid of all the stuff around the DT and is a main reason for putting my sump in the basement. I use my ATO tank for a DIY style kalkwasser doser. I dump spoonfulls of kalk into the tank when I refill it. I have a small powerhead in-tank that runs for 4 minutes every three hours. The kalk will create a crust on top of the water and prevent CO2 from lowering the PH. The supplied pump from Tunze has run for over two years in the kalk slurry with no problems. Daniel.