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02/06/2016, 01:17 AM | #1 |
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Early signs of ich in display tank.
So my fish seem to be scratching against the sand etc. I can't see any spots at the moment and the fish all seem happy, plump and eager to eat, but definite scratching.
It seems that its affecting only the tangs at the moment but ofc in time I'm sure it'll move on to the rest of the fish. It's really not an option for a quarantine/hospital tank at the moment. I can't afford a tank large enough to place all the fish let alone maintain a second huge tank at the same time. Is there anything I can do to prevent this from going any further? I've dealt with ich and had many fish survive without the tank going fallow, although I'm at a total loss of how. |
02/06/2016, 01:40 AM | #2 |
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One thing that might help a little is to soak food before feeding in something like selcon (fatty acids and vitamins) and garlic xtreme (essentially liquid garlic) not sure if they are in australia or not hence the parentheses.
Also, is your tank a reef tank or fowlr? There are more aggressive methods you could go with in a fowlr, but above should at least help improve their immune system/ shake some parasites if there are any |
02/06/2016, 04:34 AM | #3 |
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I did actually order some type of liquid garlic stuff that I can soak the food in. Could I soak the seaweed too? I also have a flake food called marine plus which claims it has vitamin c and garlic guard in it so for now my fish are getting at least some garlic and seem to be going nuts for it. As far as immunity goes, they all seem happy and eating apart from the scratching.
The tanks a reef so definitely copper etc is a no go. I was thinking hypo salinity as a possibility considering I don't have super sensitive corals yet but I'm not sure how hypo would do in a reef. I've already cut back on lighting and increased the temp a little in the hopes it'll hinder the ich breeding and such. I'm also waiting on a UV steriliser. I know it won't rid it completely, but at least the free floating ich. + I heard ich hop off when garlic is in food. Considering getting a cleaner shrimp or two for helping get the ich off the fish. So far that's what I've come up with as a course of action. How does that sound? |
02/06/2016, 05:06 AM | #4 |
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I use Kent's Extreme Garlic and it is an awesome product. Instead of soaking the food in it I dose at 1 drop per 10 gals of actual system water. It usually helps. Now for getting rid of parasites accept ich, you can use PraziPro in your DT without any problems or killing anything accept the fish parasites. I've researched Prazi and used it many years ago. I've got one or two fish doing the head shakes mostly and need to worm them. I'm in the same situation that you're in not being able to have another tank. I have Prazi ordered and it will be here Tuesday I think and will dose right away. See if you can buy it locally, if not many on Ebay with it at about $12.50 for the 4 oz bottle.
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Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300 |
02/06/2016, 06:42 AM | #5 |
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Also, go ahead and check your water parameters. Something may be off that has stressed out your fish. If it is something with that, go ahead and fix it. Take away the stress and their immune system should be back up to fight it.
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02/06/2016, 06:58 AM | #6 | |
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02/06/2016, 07:19 AM | #7 | |
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I'll definitely wait it out a little. I don't want to stress them any more than they should be. I'd love to get a cleaner wrasse actually, they seem awesome. Also, I do have an empty 50 gallon which I could possibly set up as a hospital tank but I have 4 small tangs and a naso. If it comes to the need, is that a reasonable size in an emergency? 4 tangs in a 50 gallon sounds like I'll be sent to hell instantly Althought it is only the hippo and yellow tang that are scratching. I was worried having 5 tangs in my tank (quite large) might cause aggression, thus stress...but they don't pick on each other at all. I'm assuming the space outweighs the whole "conspecific" thing and fighting for food isn't a problem. |
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02/06/2016, 07:26 AM | #8 | |
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The tank is only a few months old so I'm assuming it's still maturing in terms of the algae/nutrients etc but I'm waiting on my media reactor & media to help. Although the water changes are ofc murdering those nitrates. |
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02/06/2016, 07:29 AM | #9 |
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The problem is that if you have any fish that are positively ID'd as having Ich you will have to pull all of your fish out and let the DT fallow for at least 72 days. This means ALL FISH. I would try the Prazipro as long as all of your fish are eating well. If not find some food that the picky eaters will eat, many of the frozen mixes usually get most fish to eating very well. Doing Prazi will make many fish not eat during the duration of the treatment, at least it can. But scratching alone doesn't mean that they have Ich.
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Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300 |
02/06/2016, 08:57 AM | #10 | |
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The thing is that ich is going to be in pretty much any tank. It's just a matter of the fish being able to fight it off with there immune system, just like we fight things off everyday without noticing, so do fish. Since your tank is only a few months old, it's just still adjusting. So something may have happened that upset your delicate tangs that you don't even know about. It will most likely just go away on its on with water quality and proper nutrition. |
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02/06/2016, 09:03 AM | #11 | |
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Any larger tank is out of the question in terms of money, life, practicality etc. If it's okay to have all those fish in such a small quarantine tank all together as a last case resort and it's something people do then I guess I could try but if not, then I'm not sure what else to do other than what I've already said. I have actually had ich in my old tank before. It killed a lot of my fish and only a few survived. I never took those fish out but for weeks I never added any new fish. After that, I never ever had an ich problem again. I'm not sure why. I'm sure it only takes one fish for them to reproduce. It could be that my tank had ich and for all the time and no fish ever got it again but that seems just as unlikely as the ich disappearing completely with a tank that didn't go fishless. The only thing I could think of that got rid of the ich was polyp labs medic. It's apparently reef safe but ofc as everyone says reef safe meds never work. However IME, that's literally the only thing that makes sense. I might have to give that a go again as a last resort and hope for a miracles I guess? |
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02/06/2016, 09:05 AM | #12 |
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Im assuming you didn't QT? Scratching can mean many things, none of which are good. Just because you don't see spots doesn't mean there isn't ich present. Could also be flukes. Hypo won't work in a reef tank unless you want to kill your "reef" I would read up on disease and treatments and get yourself a QT. Velvet can be brought into your tank just as easily as ich can be and that wipes out tanks. It's your time and money
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Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs |
02/06/2016, 09:07 AM | #13 |
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Setup the 50g and take your corals out and do hypo in the DT. 17 fish in a 50g will never work. I'm not convienced its ich
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Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs |
02/06/2016, 09:09 AM | #14 | |
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In my previous reply I was saying that my old tank had ich and then it just "never showed up again". I'm sure it didn't just magically disappear or never affect my fish ever again. Like you said, ich is going to be in pretty much every tank. So maybe my fish just built up a good immunity and were able to fight it? Anyway, thanks for the hopeful words. It's nice to have someone make you feel a bit better about a situation like this. No one likes ich |
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02/06/2016, 09:16 AM | #15 | |
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Also, thank you so much I never thought of it the other way around. Your idea could be a life saver here if worst comes to worst. |
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02/06/2016, 09:30 AM | #16 |
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I personally do not believe ich is in about every tank. I do not really care to get in to another of those debates.
If indeed your fish have ich then either you manage the ich in the tank by good diet and water quality and hope they fight it off. If you choose to treat ich then all the fish must be removed and treated along with the tank being fallow. There are numerous stickies in the fish disease forum on the topic.
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02/06/2016, 09:35 AM | #17 | |
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Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs |
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02/06/2016, 09:39 AM | #18 | |
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If they do have ich, I'll take out my corals and treat the display that way. I can't quarantine 17 fish that's out of the question but the other way around I can do. |
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02/06/2016, 10:37 AM | #19 | |
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Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300 |
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02/06/2016, 10:39 AM | #20 | |
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Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300 |
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02/06/2016, 01:53 PM | #21 | |
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Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs |
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02/06/2016, 05:18 PM | #22 | |
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Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300 |
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02/08/2016, 01:31 AM | #23 |
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After watching out for a few days, I realised I have stray voltage in the tank. Didn't know till I stuck my hand in and felt buzzing. I'm starting to think the flashing might not be ich and it has to do with the stray voltage.
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02/08/2016, 08:07 AM | #24 |
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I sure hope that was your issue.
But you now have been warned. You have too many fish to QT them all without a lot of work and expense. QT your new arrivals going forward.
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02/08/2016, 11:46 AM | #25 |
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I really hope so too.
As for the quarantine Dmorty gave me a great idea to just put the corals in another tank and treat the display so that's not a problem. That's the last of the stocking though. I'd say the tanks really under stocked but with the tangs...the more space the better. Fish are okay so far though, giving them plenty of garlic guard etc. I'm hoping for voltage being the cause of scratching but if not, then its a waiting game for now. They're fat and happy atm I won't bother them if I don't have to otherwise it's inverts to QT and treatment in display. Strangely enough, they're eating like absolute horses. Even Mr Ich Magnet. (Blue tang) |
Tags |
display tank, ich, ich in reef, medication, scratching |
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