Ethics question when selling AI Lights

[knowen87]

I have a quick question for you all. Is it ethical to sell a light as an AI VEGA when it was originally an AI SOL but was upgraded to the AI VEGA using a kit. The light is essentially a VEGA because it has new LED PowerPucks, Driver Boards, a Vega mainboard, new lenses, and a Vega plastic housing. This is not a dispute I have on this site. I bought some lights the other day and was told they were VEGAs but later realized that some of them were upgraded SOLs and I think this is dishonest but what do you think? would you pay the same for either light?

[nvladik]

I would agree it's dishonest. If I upgrade - I mention it. You can always reach out to the seller and ask, it could be something as simple as he/she forgot.

[kcinnick]

so what is the problem?

[BlackTip]

Seller should disclose condition, upgrade, modification, and prior repair to the buyer. Anything less than that is dishonest.

[d0ughb0y]

I think it is the buyer's responsibility to do due diligence, just like what you would do buying anything else.

[thegrun]

I would have disclosed the upgrade, but having done the upgrade myself the only thing left from the original light is the heatsink, so I would not feel cheated.

[knowen87]

Thanks for your input. I think that it was a little shady for him to sell me upgraded AI SOLs as VEGAs. I feel like it would have been better for him to do like thegrun said and disclose that they were upgrades. If he would have told me that they were upgrades but the only original portion of the light was a heat sink I still would have bought the lights.

I also agree with d0ughb0y and I should have gone in with more information to protect myself....but I also feel that it is dishonest to sell something that you know is not what the buyer expects.

It is especially dishonest if you know it has a flaw or issue and you do not disclose it (even though that was not the case with my purchase)

[JP Reef]

They are Vega's. The only thing that would be different is the heat sink and fan. I would disclose the upgrade only because the heat sink looks different. I would charge the same either way.

[Sounds Fishy]

Caveat Emptor...means "let the buyer beware".
I am thinking the person who you've purchased from would have answered all your questions,if you asked the right questions.I buy some used things every so often and afterwards, 50 percent of the time I have the feeling someone held back on something that may have swayed my decision.Only if I new what questions to ask at the time.Hindsight,is a wonderful thing.Sometimes I deal with honest people too.They are the best.Unfortunately,dishonest people also will tell you they are honest.
In your case you are basically getting what you paid for,and if it works and is in good condition ,at least you are able to use it for what you intended it for.If it didn't work properly then I would be upset.

[vhuang168]

Agreed that it should have been disclosed it was an upgraded light. I've purchased a few AI lights used and I always make sure to ask if it was an upgraded light or all original. Sometimes it is hard to tell from the pictures.

[D-Nak]

I actually think this is pretty simple. A Vega is a Vega and a Sol is a Sol. Aren't the heatsinks completely different? IIRC the Vega's heatsink is half the size. I don't think it's your fault that you received an upgraded Sol. If someone was selling a Vega, I would expect that it's a Vega.

[ReefInterest]

Originally Posted by knowen87

I have a quick question for you all. Is it ethical to sell a light as an AI VEGA when it was originally an AI SOL but was upgraded to the AI VEGA using a kit. The light is essentially a VEGA because it has new LED PowerPucks, Driver Boards, a Vega mainboard, new lenses, and a Vega plastic housing. This is not a dispute I have on this site. I bought some lights the other day and was told they were VEGAs but later realized that some of them were upgraded SOLs and I think this is dishonest but what do you think? would you pay the same for either light?

My ethics would cause me to disclose any and all information (including upgrades). However, my ethics don't tend to apply to the people I'm buying from.

[kcinnick]

I would have noted they were Vega's upgraded from Sol's, maybe the seller bought them like that?

[Dkuhlmann]

I agree it's dishonest!

What does IIRC mean?

[Sounds Fishy]

Originally Posted by Dkuhlmann

I agree it's dishonest!

What does IIRC mean?

If I are correct.?

[D-Nak]

Originally Posted by Sounds Fishy

If I are correct.?

If I Remember Correctly

If I Recall Correctly

[Dkuhlmann]

Thanks!

[karimwassef]

What would you want someone to do if you were the buyer?



Disclosure is always best. You can both say it's a VEGA and explain the details of how it became a VEGA. Disclosing both gives the buyer all the information they need to make the decision that's right for them.

[knowen87]

Originally Posted by Sounds Fishy

Caveat Emptor...means "let the buyer beware".
I am thinking the person who you've purchased from would have answered all your questions,if you asked the right questions.I buy some used things every so often and afterwards, 50 percent of the time I have the feeling someone held back on something that may have swayed my decision.Only if I new what questions to ask at the time.Hindsight,is a wonderful thing.Sometimes I deal with honest people too.They are the best.Unfortunately,dishonest people also will tell you they are honest.
In your case you are basically getting what you paid for,and if it works and is in good condition ,at least you are able to use it for what you intended it for.If it didn't work properly then I would be upset.

Ya I think that it is possible that the seller did not know that they were SOL upgrades or he just plain lied to me cause I did notice that the heat sinks were different and I asked him. He said that the that earlier versions of the VEGA had a different heat sink (which is not true). I obviously wasn't too concerned because the actual leds were all the same and they are working great.

[vhuang168]

Originally Posted by D-Nak

I actually think this is pretty simple. A Vega is a Vega and a Sol is a Sol. Aren't the heatsinks completely different? IIRC the Vega's heatsink is half the size. I don't think it's your fault that you received an upgraded Sol. If someone was selling a Vega, I would expect that it's a Vega.

You can upgrade a SOL to a Vega. I actually was going to upgrade my SOL to be a Hydra 52. But the taller heat sink bugged me, so I traded in my old SOL heat sink and purchased a refurbed Hydra heat sink from AI. Purchased the Hydra 52 upgrade kit and viola, a correctly equipped Hydra 52.

[D-Nak]

Originally Posted by vhuang168

You can upgrade a SOL to a Vega. I actually was going to upgrade my SOL to be a Hydra 52. But the taller heat sink bugged me, so I traded in my old SOL heat sink and purchased a refurbed Hydra heat sink from AI. Purchased the Hydra 52 upgrade kit and viola, a correctly equipped Hydra 52.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I know that the Sol can be upgraded, but with the taller heatsink, it can never be called a Vega. To me, that's the issue -- though something functions like something else, it can never be called that something else.

I have a Radion G1 that I updated to a G3 and replaced the bottom cover so that it looks like a G3. But the top panel still has the touch buttons instead of the actual buttons -- so I will never call it at Radion G3 -- it's clearly an upgraded G1. In this case, it's a Sol upgraded to perform like a Vega, but you can't call it a Vega because it doesn't have a Vega heatsink.

[JP Reef]

Originally Posted by D-Nak

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I know that the Sol can be upgraded, but with the taller heatsink, it can never be called a Vega. To me, that's the issue -- though something functions like something else, it can never be called that something else.

I have a Radion G1 that I updated to a G3 and replaced the bottom cover so that it looks like a G3. But the top panel still has the touch buttons instead of the actual buttons -- so I will never call it at Radion G3 -- it's clearly an upgraded G1. In this case, it's a Sol upgraded to perform like a Vega, but you can't call it a Vega because it doesn't have a Vega heatsink.

Did you buy the light for the heat sink? I think you are splitting hairs. What if you upgrade a Vega to a Hydra 52? There is absolutely nothing shared but the heat sink. They even had you replace the fan if needed. It isn't like you got ripped off or something, unless the taller heat sink is a problem, but then you should have looked at them before you bought them. You are paying for the light and insides not the chunk of metal attached to them as the heat sink has no effect on performance other than requiring one. As far as you are concerned, would you reduce the price on your G1 radion that you upgraded vs a regular G3(disclosed or not)? I bet not, but the fact that there is a difference in how the buttons are designed it would matter. The difference in a sol heat sink and vega heat sink have no effect on the performance of the light. Buttons are a different story.

[sixpackgarage]

Stop worrying about it.. Karma will deal out pimp slaps to dishonest sellers later

[vhuang168]

If you went from a Vega to a Hydra 52, it is essentially the same light. But I will still give full disclosure and state that it is an upgraded light.

Going from a SOL to a Hydra or Vega is a different story.

If you bought 3 used Hydras n 1 is an upgraded SOL, would you just shrug it off and use it?

What would you do if all 3 lights were meant to go on a custom light mount and now 1 light will sit lower than the other 2. Shrug it off and use it?

Knowing D-nak, I'm betting he will fully disclose it and will price it accordingly.

How would you feel if you bought a G3 but ended up with a upgraded G1?

[D-Nak]

Originally Posted by JP Reef

Did you buy the light for the heat sink?

I didn't buy this light. We are speaking in hypothetical terms.

Originally Posted by JP Reef

I think you are splitting hairs.

I don't think I'm splitting hairs -- but this is why it's a morals/ethical debate. IMO, if you modify or upgrade anything, it should be mentioned during the sale. It's as simple as pointing out a cosmetic chip on a used glass tank versus having the buyer notice it. I would rather deal with a seller who believes in full disclosure than purchase something and later notice that something was wrong with it. I wouldn't buy anything else from the seller. But again, that's just me.

Originally Posted by JP Reef

What if you upgrade a Vega to a Hydra 52? There is absolutely nothing shared but the heat sink. They even had you replace the fan if needed. It isn't like you got ripped off or something, unless the taller heat sink is a problem, but then you should have looked at them before you bought them. You are paying for the light and insides not the chunk of metal attached to them as the heat sink has no effect on performance other than requiring one.

It should still be mentioned that the Hydra 52 was an upgraded Vega. Then the buyer can decide if he/she still wants to buy it. I don't think the OP thinks he got ripped off, but was merely opening it up for debate. I completely agree that the heatsink isn't an issue at all since the functionality is the same, but since they physically look different you obviously can't sell a Sol heatsink as a Vega heatsink.

Originally Posted by JP Reef

As far as you are concerned, would you reduce the price on your G1 radion that you upgraded vs a regular G3(disclosed or not)? I bet not, but the fact that there is a difference in how the buttons are designed it would matter. The difference in a sol heat sink and vega heat sink have no effect on the performance of the light. Buttons are a different story.

I don't think I would reduce the price -- that's not really the point -- but I would definitely disclose it. Some people prefer the capacitive buttons over the physical buttons. By you saying that "buttons are a different story" couldn't I say that you were "splitting hairs"? The difference between the G1 capacitive buttons and the G3 physical buttons have no effect on the performance of the light.

Bottom line -- like the title of the thread says -- this is an ethics question. We can agree to disagree. Some people may call the seller dishonest, others will not.