Why do NTTH (new) people have more trouble? In specific...

Sk8r · 03/03/2016, 02:44 PM

1. water quality.
salinity 1.024, alkalinity 8.3, and if you have corals---calcium 420, magnesium 1350; temperature around 79-80.

2. lack of tests. Buy a refractometer and a NUMERICAL set of tests. Sorta-pink is not a helpful answer to 'what is your alkalinity?' If you don't test, you don't know what's going on . And use these things BEFORE you get a fish or coral.

3. buying sick fish. Do not pity-buy unless you have a spare tank to devote to your rescue for at least several months. Buy the oneriest, pushiest, fattest fish with impeccable finnage, the one the others are afraid of. Not the poor little fellow hovering in the corner, and be particular. Pick. Don't leave it to the store. [And the other fish will thank you for removing the bully.]

4. Have enough live rock and don't rush the cycle. 4 weeks of CUC only will mature your sandbed into something far more useful. End of cycle is not a signal to dump 10 unresearched fish into a new tank. Go slow!

5. Google the fish before buying. Just because it's shiny-new in the store doesn't mean it's the last they'll ever have. Most stores will try to get you one too, once you know it really is going to do well in your tank.

6. ask other owners about the fish's habits. Wrasses may sleep in the sand. Filefish may sleep nose-down. Many gobies dig, some more than others. Blennies can starve without green food. 'Dory' maxes at 10" to a foot in length and does NOT adjust her size to the tank she's in. Chromis assassinate the weakest of their number until they fit the tank. If ever. Certain fish hate other fish. Ask. Don't accidentally buy a food chain.

Bent · 03/03/2016, 02:49 PM

Going slow was my biggest problem as a new guy. Granted back then a lack of available information was a big deal too, but now with the internets available, the information is there but one has to actually read it...

TatorTaco · 03/03/2016, 03:44 PM

I'm new, and going slow is my biggest hurdle. I spent so much time, effort, and money into piecing it all together, just to sit and stare at an empty tank during the cycling process.

After the cycle, I want to just rush into spending a lot of time and money buying up loads of fish, but I have to keep slapping my own hand to remind myself I'll be doomed that way.

I wish their was something fun you could do other than research during that lull between your tank being setup, and and your tank being fully stocked.

Sk8r · 03/03/2016, 04:36 PM

Ah, but being there is NOW. Meaning---get a bare glass qt tank going and put your future CUC in there--feed them, filter it, learn to keep THAT water stable, and watch their antics. There are plenty of them. And there are more challenges in that than you would think. By the time they're ready to go in, you can use the same qt for your first fish, and thanks to your skills gained keeping the CUC alive, you will know how to manage the qt for your fish.

jstack · 03/03/2016, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bent

Going slow was my biggest problem as a new guy. Granted back then a lack of available information was a big deal too, but now with the internets available, the information is there but one has to actually read it...

bah I like to read good books why not save the time and watch the bagillion how too that are out there by trusted companys namely BRS saltwater made easy 1-15 episodes where they slowly integrate you rather than throw the thesaurus of super boring/outdated material?

CStrickland · 03/03/2016, 06:29 PM

For me it was pure arrogance.
Like, there's no waaay it could actually be as complicated as folks make it sound. Turns out it is. Shoulda listened to the folks

andyg1960 · 03/03/2016, 07:02 PM

My tank has been set up since November 2015 so I'm still new to saltwater ( although many years of freshwater experience like so many others). While I tend to be impulsive at times and have little patience to wait, I'm pretty proud of myself for my restraint and doing what I think was a good job of waiting and going slowly.

Thanks to everyone at this fine forum who has helped to educate me and helped me understand the need for that restraint.

toothybugs · 03/04/2016, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CStrickland

For me it was pure arrogance.
Like, there's no waaay it could actually be as complicated as folks make it sound. Turns out it is. Shoulda listened to the folks

(emphasis mine)

Absolutely. I ran a successful 75 back in college, with a cheap halide/ PC system, tap water, and an 8 inch sand bed. I had a powder brown, an ocellaris hosted by a giant condy nem, 100lbs of rock, 3 anthias, and numerous other fish I probably shouldn't have. The "pretty sticks" I put in there actually survived just fine. I never blew out my rocks. Had no problem digging up the sandbed to get rid of those unsightly black patches deep in the sand bed - that had to be algae on the glass somehow, right?

I had no idea what I was doing, just none. When I lost most of my fish in a tank transfer I had no idea why, it was just an excuse to get more.

Then I ditched the tank, got a chem degree, and recently settled enough to start a new system.

Let's just say it didn't go well for the first year at all, and the next 6 months were okay. Only the last 6-8 months have been good. I had a "I got my chem degree, whoo hoo! This should be easy!" attitude.

Don't be like me - I screwed up my 40 every 6-8 weeks with some hairbrained "hey this should work" idea that ultimately never did. What did work? Patience and what I read on RC from the experienced folk.

The line in my signature has been there for a while and serves as my brakes for new ideas.

roberthu526 · 03/04/2016, 07:33 AM

Going slow is probably the most important thing in reefing. If you can slow down, you will have more time to learn what is happening in your tank and make better decisions and adjustments if needed.

BigDave · 03/04/2016, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Ah, but being there is NOW. Meaning---get a bare glass qt tank going and put your future CUC in there--feed them, filter it, learn to keep THAT water stable, and watch their antics. There are plenty of them. And there are more challenges in that than you would think. By the time they're ready to go in, you can use the same qt for your first fish, and thanks to your skills gained keeping the CUC alive, you will know how to manage the qt for your fish.

This is what I don't understand. What's the difference between cycling a main tank with a CUC in it and cycling a QT with a CUC in it?

If you're setting up a brand new tank, then isn't the QT's cycle going to be the same as the DT's?

In both cases you're talking about taking something somewhat sterile and throwing non-sterile things in it.

Sk8r · 03/04/2016, 09:08 AM

Neither fish nor a CUC NEED cycled water...the way you can live in a house without a toilet just fine. It just gets less pleasant as time goes on---unless you have a bucket in your house that you can empty... or a filter on your tank. If you have a filter on the tank, just CHANGE it. As long as you don't have complicated surfaces like rock and sand, which host bacteria and set up a chemistry that heads for nitrate and ammonia, you can go on keeping it clean by emptying that bucket [filter] and PREVENTING a cycle from happening. You can keep marine fish in perfectly clean water just fine---no cycle, no bacteria starting their business, no problem. It's when you decide you don't want to clean the filter that often (or ever) that you go for rock/sand and a tank that can take care of waste without your intervention. That's all a cycled tank essentially is---a house with a toilet that carries waste away [dissolves it into nitrogen gas, which escapes back to the atmosphere.]

Which is why you can entertain a cuc in a qt indefinitely. They're tiny, they don't poo much, and they're easy compared to a fish, which I swear produce more poo than they take in food.

BigDave · 03/04/2016, 09:18 AM

Nice write up.

That's a great explanation. Thank-you.

PAXpress · 03/04/2016, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Which is why you can entertain a cuc in a qt indefinitely. They're tiny, they don't poo much, and they're easy compared to a fish, which I swear produce more poo than they take in food.

Ain't that just the truth.
Cutting corners is something I'm guilty of. Kind of goes along with patience but still.

RayAllen3422 · 03/04/2016, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Neither fish nor a CUC NEED cycled water...the way you can live in a house without a toilet just fine. It just gets less pleasant as time goes on---unless you have a bucket in your house that you can empty... or a filter on your tank. If you have a filter on the tank, just CHANGE it. As long as you don't have complicated surfaces like rock and sand, which host bacteria and set up a chemistry that heads for nitrate and ammonia, you can go on keeping it clean by emptying that bucket [filter] and PREVENTING a cycle from happening. You can keep marine fish in perfectly clean water just fine---no cycle, no bacteria starting their business, no problem. It's when you decide you don't want to clean the filter that often (or ever) that you go for rock/sand and a tank that can take care of waste without your intervention. That's all a cycled tank essentially is---a house with a toilet that carries waste away [dissolves it into nitrogen gas, which escapes back to the atmosphere.]

Which is why you can entertain a cuc in a qt indefinitely. They're tiny, they don't poo much, and they're easy compared to a fish, which I swear produce more poo than they take in food.

What would the CUC eat during this period? Just flake food?

PAXpress · 03/04/2016, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayAllen3422

What would the CUC eat during this period? Just flake food?

Slime?

RayAllen3422 · 03/04/2016, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAXpress

Slime?

I have no idea what that means.

delor · 03/04/2016, 03:14 PM

The only things that happen fast in the world of saltwater are BAD things....

bat21 · 03/04/2016, 03:35 PM

Good rule of thumb: do not leave a fish store with an animal you didn't go there planning to buy.

MadCnty · 03/04/2016, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delor

The only things that happen fast in the world of saltwater are BAD things....

This is so true... I guess that with age comes patience... Something I did not have on my 1st SW tank... I bought Martin Moe's book and went to town thinking I could keep corals with an one lamp CF... Needless to say I killed a few things before I learned.... Now that I am older (and hopefully wiser), I can wait and not waste the $$$ I did back then... It will probably be at least 2 months before I add any livestock to my new tank setup, with complete testing before doing so...

Sk8r · 03/04/2016, 10:59 PM

Yes, the CUC will eat Formula One [brand] flake or sinking pellet. The pellets are better, since they go to the bottom, not to the filter.

03/03/2016, 02:44 PM	#1
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Why do NTTH (new) people have more trouble? In specific... 1. water quality. salinity 1.024, alkalinity 8.3, and if you have corals---calcium 420, magnesium 1350; temperature around 79-80. 2. lack of tests. Buy a refractometer and a NUMERICAL set of tests. Sorta-pink is not a helpful answer to 'what is your alkalinity?' If you don't test, you don't know what's going on . And use these things BEFORE you get a fish or coral. 3. buying sick fish. Do not pity-buy unless you have a spare tank to devote to your rescue for at least several months. Buy the oneriest, pushiest, fattest fish with impeccable finnage, the one the others are afraid of. Not the poor little fellow hovering in the corner, and be particular. Pick. Don't leave it to the store. [And the other fish will thank you for removing the bully.] 4. Have enough live rock and don't rush the cycle. 4 weeks of CUC only will mature your sandbed into something far more useful. End of cycle is not a signal to dump 10 unresearched fish into a new tank. Go slow! 5. Google the fish before buying. Just because it's shiny-new in the store doesn't mean it's the last they'll ever have. Most stores will try to get you one too, once you know it really is going to do well in your tank. 6. ask other owners about the fish's habits. Wrasses may sleep in the sand. Filefish may sleep nose-down. Many gobies dig, some more than others. Blennies can starve without green food. 'Dory' maxes at 10" to a foot in length and does NOT adjust her size to the tank she's in. Chromis assassinate the weakest of their number until they fit the tank. If ever. Certain fish hate other fish. Ask. Don't accidentally buy a food chain. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/03/2016, 02:49 PM	#2
Bent I got nothin' Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The anals Posts: 6,420	Going slow was my biggest problem as a new guy. Granted back then a lack of available information was a big deal too, but now with the internets available, the information is there but one has to actually read it... __________________ Quitters never lose. [QUOTE=CStrickland]Who gets mad at a starfish?[/QUOTE] Current Tank Info: 75g DT, 30G refugium, 10g chaeto tank, 50g stock tank basement sump

03/03/2016, 04:36 PM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Ah, but being there is NOW. Meaning---get a bare glass qt tank going and put your future CUC in there--feed them, filter it, learn to keep THAT water stable, and watch their antics. There are plenty of them. And there are more challenges in that than you would think. By the time they're ready to go in, you can use the same qt for your first fish, and thanks to your skills gained keeping the CUC alive, you will know how to manage the qt for your fish. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/03/2016, 06:29 PM	#6
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	For me it was pure arrogance. Like, there's no waaay it could actually be as complicated as folks make it sound. Turns out it is. Shoulda listened to the folks __________________ If you're havin tank problems I feel bad for you, son. I got 99 problems but a fish ain't one Current Tank Info: 3/2016 upgrade to 120g. Chalk bass, melanurus, firefish, starry blenny, canary blenny, lyretail anthias, engineer gobys, kole tang. Softies / LPS / NPS. <3 noob4life <3

03/04/2016, 09:08 AM	#11
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Neither fish nor a CUC NEED cycled water...the way you can live in a house without a toilet just fine. It just gets less pleasant as time goes on---unless you have a bucket in your house that you can empty... or a filter on your tank. If you have a filter on the tank, just CHANGE it. As long as you don't have complicated surfaces like rock and sand, which host bacteria and set up a chemistry that heads for nitrate and ammonia, you can go on keeping it clean by emptying that bucket [filter] and PREVENTING a cycle from happening. You can keep marine fish in perfectly clean water just fine---no cycle, no bacteria starting their business, no problem. It's when you decide you don't want to clean the filter that often (or ever) that you go for rock/sand and a tank that can take care of waste without your intervention. That's all a cycled tank essentially is---a house with a toilet that carries waste away [dissolves it into nitrogen gas, which escapes back to the atmosphere.] Which is why you can entertain a cuc in a qt indefinitely. They're tiny, they don't poo much, and they're easy compared to a fish, which I swear produce more poo than they take in food. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%. Last edited by Sk8r; 03/04/2016 at 10:29 AM.

03/03/2016, 03:44 PM	#3
TatorTaco Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 65	I'm new, and going slow is my biggest hurdle. I spent so much time, effort, and money into piecing it all together, just to sit and stare at an empty tank during the cycling process. After the cycle, I want to just rush into spending a lot of time and money buying up loads of fish, but I have to keep slapping my own hand to remind myself I'll be doomed that way. I wish their was something fun you could do other than research during that lull between your tank being setup, and and your tank being fully stocked.

03/03/2016, 07:02 PM	#7
andyg1960 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 15	My tank has been set up since November 2015 so I'm still new to saltwater ( although many years of freshwater experience like so many others). While I tend to be impulsive at times and have little patience to wait, I'm pretty proud of myself for my restraint and doing what I think was a good job of waiting and going slowly. Thanks to everyone at this fine forum who has helped to educate me and helped me understand the need for that restraint.

03/04/2016, 07:33 AM	#9
roberthu526 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 290	Going slow is probably the most important thing in reefing. If you can slow down, you will have more time to learn what is happening in your tank and make better decisions and adjustments if needed.

03/04/2016, 09:18 AM	#12
BigDave Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Wylie, TX Posts: 473	Nice write up. That's a great explanation. Thank-you.

03/04/2016, 03:14 PM	#17
delor Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 1,124	The only things that happen fast in the world of saltwater are BAD things.... __________________ Surviving is different than thriving! Current Tank Info: Current: 90 gal RR reef tank, LED. Old:55gal RR, 440W VHO, 80# LR, LS, 20gal sump, SCWD. 5 gallon nano, 75 gal FOWLR

03/04/2016, 03:35 PM	#18
bat21 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 701	Good rule of thumb: do not leave a fish store with an animal you didn't go there planning to buy.

03/04/2016, 10:59 PM	#20
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Yes, the CUC will eat Formula One [brand] flake or sinking pellet. The pellets are better, since they go to the bottom, not to the filter. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.