Refugium help please.

Joeb1983 · 03/08/2016, 09:23 AM

I'm starting another tank and I decided to run a refugium this time around. (72x24x15, roughly 115 gallons naked)

I've always ran mechanical filtration and media is starting to get old especially with having 6 tanks...

I would appreciate any suggestions on how to make this chamber in the Eshopps R-300 the most effective. (Sump is 36x16x16)

Too me, 12 x 9.5" isn't that much at all, but it is what I have to work with so I want the "best bang for the buck" so to speak.

The tank will be a mixed reef with a medium bio load.

As it stands right now I'm just thinking of running a deep sand-bed, live rock and some macro... But, I have seen "miracle mud", ceramic bio spheres, ceramic plates and bricks...

Lighting will be an AI Nano controlled via my Director.

Again, any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Joeb1983 · 03/08/2016, 10:24 AM

Here is an Eshopps figure illustrating flow.

mfinn · 03/08/2016, 10:40 AM

There are a lot of different ways to stock a refugium, but I like to keep it simple.
I go with a bare bottom and just macro algae ( chaeto).
I always hated the amount of detritus that seemed to accumulate when I put rock in the refugium.

Joeb1983 · 03/08/2016, 10:48 AM

Oh, I totally understand all the stocking options, making me very confused. lol!

My buddy just suggested the same thing. Run a bunch of chaeto. No rock. No sand.

When it grows too much, pull some out.

Joeb1983 · 03/09/2016, 10:05 PM

I'm really interested in MarinePure ceramic spheres... Been reading good things about them.

The only negative I could find was some people where getting readings of aluminum...

mfinn · 03/10/2016, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeb1983

I'm really interested in MarinePure ceramic spheres... Been reading good things about them.

The only negative I could find was some people where getting readings of aluminum...

Anything you put down there will trap detritus.
Looks like fancy plastic bio balls.

Joeb1983 · 03/10/2016, 10:52 AM

^ Appreciate the replies.

I'm for sure going to run Chaeto. That much is decided. I've read it is great for pod population.

I've decided against sand as well after researching.

The ceramic spheres (1.5") could be easily removed and or vacuumed. They also make simple blocks/bricks as well, but do I really want to mess with that?..

Back to Chaeto: Does it need to tumble?.. I could understand the whole dispersed lighting outcome while tumbling, but is it really necessary?

I'd like to get as much grow out as possible given the small size of the chamber.

I don't even know if it will even tumble... I have a feeling flow is going to be pretty low looking at the inlet passage.

I just fear that the size it would need to be to tumble would be too small to be effective.

Most effective refugiums I've come across are MASSIVE compared to the 12x9.5" section I'm working with. Some even have entire dedicated tanks.

Maybe I should have did a little more homework before buying this style of sump.

From reading, I've also found it is best to run the refugium lighting opposite of the display to help with the day/night PH swing.

Thanks again for the help.

mfinn · 03/10/2016, 11:10 AM

The chaeto in my refugium would never "tumble" with just the return pump providing flow through it.
So I added a small powerhead and got it to tumble for a while. But it would grow in mass and usually jamb up in a corner.
To keep it tumbling I would have to mess with it almost every day and that got to be a pita quick.
So I just left the powerhead in there, but I did notice the rate at which it grew really improved.
The first powerhead I used was a old maxi-jet 1200, but the intake would clog pretty fast, so I replaced it with a small Tunze 6045. I think the difference in the way it draws in water ( all around) compared to the maxi-jet's small intake makes it more effective.
I clean the Tunze every couple weeks when I think about it.

FishyFishy69 · 03/10/2016, 11:16 AM

It does not need to tumble by any means. The reason people tumble it, is to gain maximum water filtration/exposure time and to limit the buildup of detritus. It will also have maximum light exposure to the whole ball of cheato, not just the top.

As long as you have decent flow through the cheato, and remember to turn it over (rotate it so that the bottom is on top) you'll be fine. The idea behind the rotating is similar to the tumbling idea, just less active. It will allow the light to get to the bottom cheato and keep it alive and healthy.

davocean · 03/10/2016, 11:17 AM

I would rather have LR rubble than any ceramics, but you can do w/out either.
I use a small pump to help tumble chaeto, that is best but it does not always tumble perfectly, not a big issue though just not optimal

Joeb1983 · 03/10/2016, 12:54 PM

Thanks for the replies all.

It did cross my mind to add a pump in that section to increase flow, but it was also a concern of the macro clogging the pumps inlet.

Flipping it to prevent die off is a great idea!

Trying to do it right as I have never ran a refugium before... Like I said, all my tanks run/ran media. Its just getting too expensive to keep up at this point and after a multi-tank crash due to a 5 day power outage I have already started consolidating and sold 6 Vertex reactors.

Having it maintenance friendly (or anything for that matter) is a major bonus because we all know how things get tended to when they are a PITA...

The 72x24x15 display tanks rock-scape will be more towards the minimalistic side, thus the reason I am looking into the MarinePure product line as the claimed square footage is very impressive.

The display will have a 2 - 2.5" sand bed. (Just received 160 pounds of it).

Ultimately, I could have just throw some sand, live rock, a ball of Chaeto and maybe a mangrove stick or two like you see when you simply Google "refugium" and called it a day...

But, I want it to be purposeful. (or as much as it can be given the limited space I have to work with as said before).

Like a lot of things in life the K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid) goes a long way...

Caulerpa is too iffy for me. I had some smuggle in one tank somehow and it was a nightmare! Plus, even though its rare I don't want to risk it ever going sexual.

davocean · 03/10/2016, 01:24 PM

I do have rubble in my fuge, not an issue for me, and if dietrus builds I use a shop vac to suck anything out, rare occurance.
I also use that same rubble to keep macro from that pump intake, it works, mostly, occasionally I have to free up the intake.
I was considering making a box out of eggcrate and zip ties to screen it off, maybe...

Joeb1983 · 03/10/2016, 03:29 PM

Quote:

I was considering making a box out of eggcrate and zip ties to screen it off, maybe...

My buddy has a CNC and it did cross my mind to make some sort of holding box for the algae out of acrylic.

This just crossed my mind... Maybe a clear hamster ball?..

I see my LFS's using them to contain eels and things that require protection.

That would make for easy containment, rotation and removal for trimming. Could use more than one if size allowed.

You could make a cradle out of rock, those spheres or acrylic. Just spit-balling now... lol!

davocean · 03/10/2016, 03:50 PM

Well my idea is to screen off the pump intake, not enclose the macro.
I actually did build what has been termed a chaeto and eggcrate sandwich, seemed like a good idea at the time, didn't really work out for me, it should be free floating and preferably tumble, not sure how the hamster ball will do and it may film up w/ algae and stuff, maybe.

Joeb1983 · 03/10/2016, 03:57 PM

Oh... Gotcha!

ha!

GimpyFin · 03/10/2016, 06:07 PM

I have the exact same R-300 sump on my tank. Overall, I like it a lot. I'm sure everyone will have varying suggestions, but I just put a small bed of sand, a few chunks of live rock, and some chaeto in there, and a light. An emerald crab, a couple hermits and snails also help keep it clean. Seems to work fairly well.

03/08/2016, 10:40 AM	#3
mfinn Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Olympia. WA. Posts: 8,648	There are a lot of different ways to stock a refugium, but I like to keep it simple. I go with a bare bottom and just macro algae ( chaeto). I always hated the amount of detritus that seemed to accumulate when I put rock in the refugium. __________________ 240 gallon soft coral tank 50 gallon lps tank

03/10/2016, 11:10 AM	#8
mfinn Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Olympia. WA. Posts: 8,648	The chaeto in my refugium would never "tumble" with just the return pump providing flow through it. So I added a small powerhead and got it to tumble for a while. But it would grow in mass and usually jamb up in a corner. To keep it tumbling I would have to mess with it almost every day and that got to be a pita quick. So I just left the powerhead in there, but I did notice the rate at which it grew really improved. The first powerhead I used was a old maxi-jet 1200, but the intake would clog pretty fast, so I replaced it with a small Tunze 6045. I think the difference in the way it draws in water ( all around) compared to the maxi-jet's small intake makes it more effective. I clean the Tunze every couple weeks when I think about it. __________________ 240 gallon soft coral tank 50 gallon lps tank

03/10/2016, 11:16 AM	#9
FishyFishy69 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Calgary, AB Canada Posts: 209	It does not need to tumble by any means. The reason people tumble it, is to gain maximum water filtration/exposure time and to limit the buildup of detritus. It will also have maximum light exposure to the whole ball of cheato, not just the top. As long as you have decent flow through the cheato, and remember to turn it over (rotate it so that the bottom is on top) you'll be fine. The idea behind the rotating is similar to the tumbling idea, just less active. It will allow the light to get to the bottom cheato and keep it alive and healthy. __________________ 210 Gallon Reef - 84"X24"X24" + 2 X 60 gallon sumps, 90 gallon Cheato Fuge and 60 gallon Frag Tank 210 Gallon FOWLR - 72"X24"X28" - 40 Gallon Cheato Fuge and 60 Gallon sump

03/10/2016, 11:17 AM	#10
davocean Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,655	I would rather have LR rubble than any ceramics, but you can do w/out either. I use a small pump to help tumble chaeto, that is best but it does not always tumble perfectly, not a big issue though just not optimal __________________ There's a fine line between owning your tank and your tank owning you! Current Tank Info: SCA 120g RR Starfire, Tunze silence 1073.02 return, 40g sump w/ fuge, SWC Extreme 160 cone skimmer,Geismann reflexx 4xT5, 2x Panorama Pro LED strips, Vortech MP40QD

03/10/2016, 01:24 PM	#12
davocean Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,655	I do have rubble in my fuge, not an issue for me, and if dietrus builds I use a shop vac to suck anything out, rare occurance. I also use that same rubble to keep macro from that pump intake, it works, mostly, occasionally I have to free up the intake. I was considering making a box out of eggcrate and zip ties to screen it off, maybe... __________________ There's a fine line between owning your tank and your tank owning you! Current Tank Info: SCA 120g RR Starfire, Tunze silence 1073.02 return, 40g sump w/ fuge, SWC Extreme 160 cone skimmer,Geismann reflexx 4xT5, 2x Panorama Pro LED strips, Vortech MP40QD

03/08/2016, 10:48 AM	#4
Joeb1983 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Stationed in Oklahoma, but from Florida. Posts: 597	Oh, I totally understand all the stocking options, making me very confused. lol! My buddy just suggested the same thing. Run a bunch of chaeto. No rock. No sand. When it grows too much, pull some out.

03/09/2016, 10:05 PM	#5
Joeb1983 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Stationed in Oklahoma, but from Florida. Posts: 597	I'm really interested in MarinePure ceramic spheres... Been reading good things about them. The only negative I could find was some people where getting readings of aluminum...

03/10/2016, 10:52 AM	#7
Joeb1983 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Stationed in Oklahoma, but from Florida. Posts: 597	^ Appreciate the replies. I'm for sure going to run Chaeto. That much is decided. I've read it is great for pod population. I've decided against sand as well after researching. The ceramic spheres (1.5") could be easily removed and or vacuumed. They also make simple blocks/bricks as well, but do I really want to mess with that?.. Back to Chaeto: Does it need to tumble?.. I could understand the whole dispersed lighting outcome while tumbling, but is it really necessary? I'd like to get as much grow out as possible given the small size of the chamber. I don't even know if it will even tumble... I have a feeling flow is going to be pretty low looking at the inlet passage. I just fear that the size it would need to be to tumble would be too small to be effective. Most effective refugiums I've come across are MASSIVE compared to the 12x9.5" section I'm working with. Some even have entire dedicated tanks. Maybe I should have did a little more homework before buying this style of sump. From reading, I've also found it is best to run the refugium lighting opposite of the display to help with the day/night PH swing. Thanks again for the help.

03/10/2016, 12:54 PM	#11
Joeb1983 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Stationed in Oklahoma, but from Florida. Posts: 597	Thanks for the replies all. It did cross my mind to add a pump in that section to increase flow, but it was also a concern of the macro clogging the pumps inlet. Flipping it to prevent die off is a great idea! Trying to do it right as I have never ran a refugium before... Like I said, all my tanks run/ran media. Its just getting too expensive to keep up at this point and after a multi-tank crash due to a 5 day power outage I have already started consolidating and sold 6 Vertex reactors. Having it maintenance friendly (or anything for that matter) is a major bonus because we all know how things get tended to when they are a PITA... The 72x24x15 display tanks rock-scape will be more towards the minimalistic side, thus the reason I am looking into the MarinePure product line as the claimed square footage is very impressive. The display will have a 2 - 2.5" sand bed. (Just received 160 pounds of it). Ultimately, I could have just throw some sand, live rock, a ball of Chaeto and maybe a mangrove stick or two like you see when you simply Google "refugium" and called it a day... But, I want it to be purposeful. (or as much as it can be given the limited space I have to work with as said before). Like a lot of things in life the K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid) goes a long way... Caulerpa is too iffy for me. I had some smuggle in one tank somehow and it was a nightmare! Plus, even though its rare I don't want to risk it ever going sexual.

03/10/2016, 03:50 PM	#14
davocean Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,655	Well my idea is to screen off the pump intake, not enclose the macro. I actually did build what has been termed a chaeto and eggcrate sandwich, seemed like a good idea at the time, didn't really work out for me, it should be free floating and preferably tumble, not sure how the hamster ball will do and it may film up w/ algae and stuff, maybe. __________________ There's a fine line between owning your tank and your tank owning you! Current Tank Info: SCA 120g RR Starfire, Tunze silence 1073.02 return, 40g sump w/ fuge, SWC Extreme 160 cone skimmer,Geismann reflexx 4xT5, 2x Panorama Pro LED strips, Vortech MP40QD

03/10/2016, 03:57 PM	#15
Joeb1983 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Stationed in Oklahoma, but from Florida. Posts: 597	Oh... Gotcha! ha!

03/10/2016, 06:07 PM	#16
GimpyFin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,032	I have the exact same R-300 sump on my tank. Overall, I like it a lot. I'm sure everyone will have varying suggestions, but I just put a small bed of sand, a few chunks of live rock, and some chaeto in there, and a light. An emerald crab, a couple hermits and snails also help keep it clean. Seems to work fairly well.