New house, first tank. What changes would you do to the house during construction?

Chopper88 · 03/21/2016, 07:43 AM

Hi all,

I'm very much new to this hobby. I've only had some freshwater tanks ages ago, and have always dreamt of owning a nice saltwater tank... Please keep in mind I have zero experience, but want to do it right as much as possible from the get go.

I've just bought a house, which still needs a ton of work like new flooring etc. So I have a lot of room to change or add things at this point which could make my life easier in the future when I do get a tank.
My question is, what would you definitely do if you were in this position?

I want a big tank, thinking of +- 1000L (265G) main tank. Given the tank's dimensions and volume, I think automatic water changes are a very welcome thing. So I'm thinking of adding a drain pipe in the floor, hooked to the sewage system which can be used to drain 'old' water. I want to put in tiles, and am thinking of just leaving one tile open, and if I need to sell the place, I just cut off the pipe, attach a cap to it or something, and glue a tile in place.

I also want in floor heating, is it enough to just put insulation (styrofoam plates for example) between floor and stand/sump, or should I refrain from placing any heating where I'm planning to place the tank?

Also thinking of adding a fresh water pipe to the same place, and mixing salt on the spot, or leading freshwater elsewhere, mixing it there, and then pumping the saltwater to the tank or a canister under the tank.

Besides the plumbing, also thinking of putting in a wall socket with it's own circuit breaker and RCD so that anything else which could happen in the house doesn't affect the tank.

What are your thoughts on this? Should I add something, or did I perhaps think of something stupid?

thegrun · 03/21/2016, 08:54 AM

The drain would be nice but depending on local codes it may also require a trap primer. I would set up your mixing station elsewhere like the garage but have the necessary plumbing lines installed to be able to pump saltwater and freshwater to your tank. Be sure the house is structurally built to handle the weight of the tank. I would actually run two dedicated electrical circuits to the tank, not just one.

Sk8r · 03/21/2016, 09:03 AM

If you have a basement, see if you can figure a siting for the tank that lets you run a pair of hoses through floor or above baseboard, down to a sump in the basement, ideally with utility sink and floor drain close by.

ForeverNoob · 03/21/2016, 09:35 AM

I plan to build in a fish room when I finally build a house and have always thought that having everything requiring regular maintenance or attention at waist height or higher for easy access (my knees don't like me).

Psychomantix · 03/21/2016, 10:14 AM

I don't want to rain on your parade, but I think this needs to be pointed out. Having a big SW tank can be quite a commitment and many hobbyists do quit for one reason or another. Since you have never had a SW tank before, and it's been ages since you've had a tank at all, you should ask yourself if this is something you can really commit to before you dedicate and modify a portion of your house to it. If you're not sure, I would hold off on the renovations.

Many people have beautiful tanks, big or small, without any prior modifications to their homes. And in 6 months if you decide to scrap the tank, at least you wont have holes and pipes sticking out of your floors and walls.

CafeReef · 03/21/2016, 11:01 AM

one thing to have on your list of to do's is to ensure that your floor joists are reinforced to support the weight of your tank, if it is going to be in a basement on top of a concrete pad you should be fine unless you are going extremely large.

Anything over 1000 pounds weight wise (50-75 gallon tank could/will hit this) on a floating floor, I would ensure the joists are laminated or reinforced.

Chopper88 · 03/21/2016, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrun

The drain would be nice but depending on local codes it may also require a trap primer. I would set up your mixing station elsewhere like the garage but have the necessary plumbing lines installed to be able to pump saltwater and freshwater to your tank. Be sure the house is structurally built to handle the weight of the tank. I would actually run two dedicated electrical circuits to the tank, not just one.

Interesting, not familiar with a trap primer at all, maybe that isn't a common thing in this end of the world. Why 2 circuits specifically? Because of lighting?
Thinking of LED here, so no extreme power requirements in that department.
The house should be able to bear the weight, it's set on a concrete foundation with concrete piles. The floor itself is made of reinforced concrete slabs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

If you have a basement, see if you can figure a siting for the tank that lets you run a pair of hoses through floor or above baseboard, down to a sump in the basement, ideally with utility sink and floor drain close by.

I wish I had one.. Have a small crawl space under the house, can put in some pipes but that is about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForeverNoob

I plan to build in a fish room when I finally build a house and have always thought that having everything requiring regular maintenance or attention at waist height or higher for easy access (my knees don't like me).

That would've been nice if possible, but plan to put it in the living room with no 'spare' rooms on the nearest sides. That's why I thought of putting pipes under the stand and leading them to the garage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psychomantix

I don't want to rain on your parade, but I think this needs to be pointed out. Having a big SW tank can be quite a commitment and many hobbyists do quit for one reason or another. Since you have never had a SW tank before, and it's been ages since you've had a tank at all, you should ask yourself if this is something you can really commit to before you dedicate and modify a portion of your house to it. If you're not sure, I would hold off on the renovations.

Many people have beautiful tanks, big or small, without any prior modifications to their homes. And in 6 months if you decide to scrap the tank, at least you wont have holes and pipes sticking out of your floors and walls.

I'm sure I want to commit. But in all honesty, I must also agree with the part of your post that I don't want to modify the house in such a way that it isn't relatively easily reversible. That is a philosophy in general though, I like to think about stuff, instead of just doing what seems easiest at one point.

I've been wanting a SW tank for about as long as I can remember, but my parents wouldn't let me (understandable, it's their house after all). Now in my mid twenties and having bought my first house it's something I can finally realise, even though it might not even be for the next 2 or 3 years. I just want to prevent that I'm thinking "Man I wish I did this and that when I had the chance" somewhere along the road

And I also realise how it comes across when someone without any experience wants a tank this size right away. My idea is to do everything right from the start, I also don't mind if it's filled with live rock, 5 fishes and 5 coral species for this first year for example. Even though it might not look as attractive as a smaller tank with the same livestock because of all the 'empty' space, it will still bring me joy that I am the proud owner of it all. If everything works out, I can always add more stuff slowly, and think that will be easier and cheaper in the end than buying/installing/cycling a new tank, and everything that comes with it, bigger skimmer, sump, pumps, lighting etc. I also keep this in mind if something goes wrong, it will cost me about the same as having a smaller tank, it's just housed in a bigger space. (besides having a higher initial investment and electrical bill that is of course)

Don't want to come across as someone who knows it all, and has it all figured out, but I do have given this serious thought for several years now. If you disagree with this idea, then by all means tell me.

Psychomantix · 03/21/2016, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper88

I'm sure I want to commit. But in all honesty, I must also agree with the part of your post that I don't want to modify the house in such a way that it isn't relatively easily reversible. That is a philosophy in general though, I like to think about stuff, instead of just doing what seems easiest at one point.

I've been wanting a SW tank for about as long as I can remember, but my parents wouldn't let me (understandable, it's their house after all). Now in my mid twenties and having bought my first house it's something I can finally realise, even though it might not even be for the next 2 or 3 years. I just want to prevent that I'm thinking "Man I wish I did this and that when I had the chance" somewhere along the road

Welcome to the hobby then

fishchef · 03/21/2016, 12:09 PM

Really?

Sk8r · 03/21/2016, 12:49 PM

Things to consider. IF you have a hall closet behind the wall where you set the tank, you can do a 'basement' setup there and soundproof it. It's the next best thing. But it costs a closet.
These tanks ARE noisy if you don't have a submerged intake or other modification to eliminate the waterfall; but the SUMP can be noisy as the water falls into it. Both together can be quite a white-noise addition to your living space.

Hal · 03/21/2016, 12:56 PM

Been there. Done that. You're on the right track. In short, remote equipment room with a floor drain for wastewater and spills is the biggest improvement you can make to make your life easier. Definitely add a hot and cold water source/faucet and a utility sink. Cold water to feed your RO and hot water to wash your hands and clean the skimmer. And add additional joists under your tank, preferably exactly underneath the feet of your stand.

Vinny Kreyling · 03/21/2016, 06:10 PM

With a large tank humidity can become a problem, a whole house dehumidifier might be something to consider, I had to use one.
Separate GFI power supply circuits, a bare minimum of 2 preferably 4, you always need a plug! I have over a dozen in use.
Floor drain a definite plus, check to see if you can drain saltwater into the system.
I left the space under my tank without floor heat.

bat21 · 03/21/2016, 10:10 PM

Why didn't you include us in your house search???

Bent · 03/21/2016, 10:16 PM

My next home build is going to have a million floor drains I can tie into around the tank areas.

Overflow sump to floor drain
Overflow display to floor drain
Overflow RO container to floor drain.

Route everything that could possibly overflow, ever, to a floor drain.

Chopper88 · 03/22/2016, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Things to consider. IF you have a hall closet behind the wall where you set the tank, you can do a 'basement' setup there and soundproof it. It's the next best thing. But it costs a closet.
These tanks ARE noisy if you don't have a submerged intake or other modification to eliminate the waterfall; but the SUMP can be noisy as the water falls into it. Both together can be quite a white-noise addition to your living space.

Interesting, when I'm around a tank or in a LFS, I don't pay much attention to the noise. Of course I do hear water flowing, but didn't think much of it.
Going to do a little research on this as well, I guess it's like a noisy fan in a pc or beamer, once you realise it's there, you keep thinking about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hal

Been there. Done that. You're on the right track. In short, remote equipment room with a floor drain for wastewater and spills is the biggest improvement you can make to make your life easier. Definitely add a hot and cold water source/faucet and a utility sink. Cold water to feed your RO and hot water to wash your hands and clean the skimmer. And add additional joists under your tank, preferably exactly underneath the feet of your stand.

Have the utility room all set up, since I also like to work in the garden and do my own maintenance to engines etc. Don't want to track any dirt back into the house

Where I plan to mix the water etc. there's a utility sink with a close in boiler and an unused washing machine drain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny Kreyling

With a large tank humidity can become a problem, a whole house dehumidifier might be something to consider, I had to use one.
Separate GFI power supply circuits, a bare minimum of 2 preferably 4, you always need a plug! I have over a dozen in use.
Floor drain a definite plus, check to see if you can drain saltwater into the system.
I left the space under my tank without floor heat.

Interesting, 4 separate circuits??
Why did you choose this amount, and how do you have them divided? (What equipment is on what circuit?)

I'm not too worried about the humidity, it's usually relatively dry here, besides a week or 3/4 mid summer. But have been thinking about finding a solution to filter air anyway to prevent everything in the living room being attacked by salt. It's a topic I still need to do a lot of research on though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bat21

Why didn't you include us in your house search???

Hehe, I'm not that obsessed (yet)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bent

My next home build is going to have a million floor drains I can tie into around the tank areas.

Overflow sump to floor drain
Overflow display to floor drain
Overflow RO container to floor drain.

Route everything that could possibly overflow, ever, to a floor drain.

I haven't looked into the plumbing that well yet, but what exactly do you mean with 'floor drains'?
I was planning to put in one drain and route everything there. Maybe I misunderstood, but wouldn't it be possible to do this?
Was thinking of installing something like a shower siphon where you can lead a pipe into the drain itself, but it'll also function as a floor drain on the sides.

Hal · 03/22/2016, 07:43 AM

Floor drain is a drain to the sewer that is in the floor, usually at a low spot in the concrete. It could be a gravity drain with a trap, it could lead to a sump pump. Ideally, You want one wherever you have a reservoir of water or plumbing in case that reservoir overflows or the plumbing leaks. So a drain near your sump, display tank etc. Most people will forego the drain near the display tank because that would be in the main living area of your house, but one near the sump in the equipment room is a very smart idea. If all your equipment is in a single room then a single floor drain is probably all you need.

As a veteran of three house floods, trust me, it's a good idea.

Vinny Kreyling · 03/22/2016, 08:20 AM

I have 2 circuits ,GFI protected @ the wall because in the panel when 1 tripped so did the other. They are 2 plugs each so a total of 4 plugs. NOW-- 9 plug DJ strip, main pump, heater, controller, controller EB-8 ,2 sea swirls, 4 tunze pumps, 3 skimmer pumps, sump light, LED main light 3 plugs & in the water closet --top off, RO water heater & ca reactor. I had to rearrange them because of a tripping problem with 1 circuit.
So I could have used 4 quad outlets & still be short. They add up fast.
Check out Aprilaire dehumidifiers.

Chopper88 · 03/24/2016, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hal

Floor drain is a drain to the sewer that is in the floor, usually at a low spot in the concrete. It could be a gravity drain with a trap, it could lead to a sump pump. Ideally, You want one wherever you have a reservoir of water or plumbing in case that reservoir overflows or the plumbing leaks. So a drain near your sump, display tank etc. Most people will forego the drain near the display tank because that would be in the main living area of your house, but one near the sump in the equipment room is a very smart idea. If all your equipment is in a single room then a single floor drain is probably all you need.

As a veteran of three house floods, trust me, it's a good idea.

Ah yes, all clear. As I don't know yet where the mixing station and sump go I was mainly thinking about the main tank at this point.

Three floods, that sucks... Respect you're still participating in this hobby then!
I've got a lot of patience and can overcome something like this, but three times, I don't know about that...

What caused the floods in your case if I may ask?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny Kreyling

I have 2 circuits ,GFI protected @ the wall because in the panel when 1 tripped so did the other. They are 2 plugs each so a total of 4 plugs. NOW-- 9 plug DJ strip, main pump, heater, controller, controller EB-8 ,2 sea swirls, 4 tunze pumps, 3 skimmer pumps, sump light, LED main light 3 plugs & in the water closet --top off, RO water heater & ca reactor. I had to rearrange them because of a tripping problem with 1 circuit.
So I could have used 4 quad outlets & still be short. They add up fast.
Check out Aprilaire dehumidifiers.

Right, I was talking about a dedicated GFCI breaker for just that circuit. Should be separated from all other electric stuff in the house (except for the main power source that is..)
Must confess that I didn't calculate power usage that thoroughly yet, mostly rough estimates to calculate average total cost per x time to run everything. But it might be a good idea to divide this into multiple circuits to divide the load, and still have some minimal stuff running in case of a power problem like heating and one or 2 pumps.

It is clear to me that I need to spend some more time on the equipment I'd like to buy and it's power needs. I mainly focussed on drainage until this point, as I can add circuits and wall sockets etc. myself relatively easily (and still need to lower sockets and add a bunch anyway)

03/21/2016, 07:43 AM	#1
Chopper88 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4	New house, first tank. What changes would you do to the house during construction? Hi all, I'm very much new to this hobby. I've only had some freshwater tanks ages ago, and have always dreamt of owning a nice saltwater tank... Please keep in mind I have zero experience, but want to do it right as much as possible from the get go. I've just bought a house, which still needs a ton of work like new flooring etc. So I have a lot of room to change or add things at this point which could make my life easier in the future when I do get a tank. My question is, what would you definitely do if you were in this position? I want a big tank, thinking of +- 1000L (265G) main tank. Given the tank's dimensions and volume, I think automatic water changes are a very welcome thing. So I'm thinking of adding a drain pipe in the floor, hooked to the sewage system which can be used to drain 'old' water. I want to put in tiles, and am thinking of just leaving one tile open, and if I need to sell the place, I just cut off the pipe, attach a cap to it or something, and glue a tile in place. I also want in floor heating, is it enough to just put insulation (styrofoam plates for example) between floor and stand/sump, or should I refrain from placing any heating where I'm planning to place the tank? Also thinking of adding a fresh water pipe to the same place, and mixing salt on the spot, or leading freshwater elsewhere, mixing it there, and then pumping the saltwater to the tank or a canister under the tank. Besides the plumbing, also thinking of putting in a wall socket with it's own circuit breaker and RCD so that anything else which could happen in the house doesn't affect the tank. What are your thoughts on this? Should I add something, or did I perhaps think of something stupid?

03/21/2016, 09:03 AM	#3
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	If you have a basement, see if you can figure a siting for the tank that lets you run a pair of hoses through floor or above baseboard, down to a sump in the basement, ideally with utility sink and floor drain close by. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/21/2016, 11:01 AM	#6
CafeReef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Elkhorn, NE Posts: 1,405	one thing to have on your list of to do's is to ensure that your floor joists are reinforced to support the weight of your tank, if it is going to be in a basement on top of a concrete pad you should be fine unless you are going extremely large. Anything over 1000 pounds weight wise (50-75 gallon tank could/will hit this) on a floating floor, I would ensure the joists are laminated or reinforced. __________________ 50 Gallon cube

03/21/2016, 12:49 PM	#10
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Things to consider. IF you have a hall closet behind the wall where you set the tank, you can do a 'basement' setup there and soundproof it. It's the next best thing. But it costs a closet. These tanks ARE noisy if you don't have a submerged intake or other modification to eliminate the waterfall; but the SUMP can be noisy as the water falls into it. Both together can be quite a white-noise addition to your living space. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/21/2016, 12:56 PM	#11
Hal Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 1,889	Been there. Done that. You're on the right track. In short, remote equipment room with a floor drain for wastewater and spills is the biggest improvement you can make to make your life easier. Definitely add a hot and cold water source/faucet and a utility sink. Cold water to feed your RO and hot water to wash your hands and clean the skimmer. And add additional joists under your tank, preferably exactly underneath the feet of your stand. __________________ Some days it's not even worth chewing through the restraints. Current Tank Info: 250g starphire: 72x28x30, BeanAnimal drain with an oversized non-durso emergency drain, 4 inch DSB, 3x Reefbreeders Value LED fixtures, SWC/MSX 300A skimmer, Geo kalk reactor, 3 Vortechs w/bb, carbon reactor, and a RKL

03/21/2016, 08:54 AM	#2
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	The drain would be nice but depending on local codes it may also require a trap primer. I would set up your mixing station elsewhere like the garage but have the necessary plumbing lines installed to be able to pump saltwater and freshwater to your tank. Be sure the house is structurally built to handle the weight of the tank. I would actually run two dedicated electrical circuits to the tank, not just one.

03/21/2016, 09:35 AM	#4
ForeverNoob Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 75	I plan to build in a fish room when I finally build a house and have always thought that having everything requiring regular maintenance or attention at waist height or higher for easy access (my knees don't like me).

03/21/2016, 10:14 AM	#5
Psychomantix Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Canada Posts: 120	I don't want to rain on your parade, but I think this needs to be pointed out. Having a big SW tank can be quite a commitment and many hobbyists do quit for one reason or another. Since you have never had a SW tank before, and it's been ages since you've had a tank at all, you should ask yourself if this is something you can really commit to before you dedicate and modify a portion of your house to it. If you're not sure, I would hold off on the renovations. Many people have beautiful tanks, big or small, without any prior modifications to their homes. And in 6 months if you decide to scrap the tank, at least you wont have holes and pipes sticking out of your floors and walls.

03/21/2016, 12:09 PM	#9
fishchef Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 1,222	Really?

03/21/2016, 06:10 PM	#12
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	With a large tank humidity can become a problem, a whole house dehumidifier might be something to consider, I had to use one. Separate GFI power supply circuits, a bare minimum of 2 preferably 4, you always need a plug! I have over a dozen in use. Floor drain a definite plus, check to see if you can drain saltwater into the system. I left the space under my tank without floor heat. __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

03/21/2016, 10:10 PM	#13
bat21 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 701	Why didn't you include us in your house search??? __________________ --- Current Tank Info: 65g fowlr

03/21/2016, 10:16 PM	#14
Bent I got nothin' Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The anals Posts: 6,420	My next home build is going to have a million floor drains I can tie into around the tank areas. Overflow sump to floor drain Overflow display to floor drain Overflow RO container to floor drain. Route everything that could possibly overflow, ever, to a floor drain. __________________ Quitters never lose. [QUOTE=CStrickland]Who gets mad at a starfish?[/QUOTE] Current Tank Info: 75g DT, 30G refugium, 10g chaeto tank, 50g stock tank basement sump

03/22/2016, 07:43 AM	#16
Hal Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 1,889	Floor drain is a drain to the sewer that is in the floor, usually at a low spot in the concrete. It could be a gravity drain with a trap, it could lead to a sump pump. Ideally, You want one wherever you have a reservoir of water or plumbing in case that reservoir overflows or the plumbing leaks. So a drain near your sump, display tank etc. Most people will forego the drain near the display tank because that would be in the main living area of your house, but one near the sump in the equipment room is a very smart idea. If all your equipment is in a single room then a single floor drain is probably all you need. As a veteran of three house floods, trust me, it's a good idea. __________________ Some days it's not even worth chewing through the restraints. Current Tank Info: 250g starphire: 72x28x30, BeanAnimal drain with an oversized non-durso emergency drain, 4 inch DSB, 3x Reefbreeders Value LED fixtures, SWC/MSX 300A skimmer, Geo kalk reactor, 3 Vortechs w/bb, carbon reactor, and a RKL

03/22/2016, 08:20 AM	#17
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	I have 2 circuits ,GFI protected @ the wall because in the panel when 1 tripped so did the other. They are 2 plugs each so a total of 4 plugs. NOW-- 9 plug DJ strip, main pump, heater, controller, controller EB-8 ,2 sea swirls, 4 tunze pumps, 3 skimmer pumps, sump light, LED main light 3 plugs & in the water closet --top off, RO water heater & ca reactor. I had to rearrange them because of a tripping problem with 1 circuit. So I could have used 4 quad outlets & still be short. They add up fast. Check out Aprilaire dehumidifiers. __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.