Simplifying vs. Maxing Out...

[PIPSTER]

I, as many of you, daydream of having really big tanks, 1,000 gallons+.

I've seen many smaller tanks, 30-75 gallon, which are sumpless, skimmerless, and pretty much just powerheads and heaters, but have been successful because of their owner's care and attention to parameters, bioload, etc.

When I see these huge builds over 200-300 gallons, I always see all the bells and whistles, presumably because those reefers can afford it. (And more power to them!)

But, has anyone went big, say over 200 gallons or so, and went very simple?
Say, just heaters, powerheads, maybe an ATS...but no sump or skimmer at least?

I would be very curious about the outcome of such, since bigger is more stable, and as long as the bioload isn't too high, it should work well as there would be more room for live rock and more surface area for sand.

Anybody doing it this way?

[Drae]

You could in theory run any tank off of just water movement, heater, something to oxygenate the water (skimmers usually handle this) beneficial bacteria (live rock, sand, media etc) and water changes. The problem is the less equipment you have more husbandry will be required. A lot more! Eventually phosphates and nitrates are going to build up and the amount of water changes that would need to be done on a large tank would add up quick. Skimmers and sumps aren't required. The make things a lot easier tho.

[d2mini]

A sump I don't see as added complication, other than a little plumbing.
The advantage is that it gets all that stuff out of your tank. Heaters, dosing lines, etc.
If you have coral, you need to keep things stable and certain equipment is just plain needed for that. I'd much rather have that stuff hidden away in the sump/stand.
While you may be able to keep stable NSW parameters in a nano with water changes, that's not going to happen in a 2-300 gallon tank.
Even my 25g nano requires two-part dosing.

[snorvich]

I agree with both of the above.

[PIPSTER]

OK, it just seems a little backwards to me.
I'm not talking about stocked out to the gills with fish and sps, but with a reasonable stock list that equates to a scaled-up version of these smaller tanks these guys run sumpless, skimmerless.

One of the reasons I'm bringing up this whole topic is the cost of going big doesn't seem to have to be so high, if someone gets one of these 250 gallon tanks coming with a stand for $500 on craigslist or something.
Some of these build threads are almost literally insane the extras that people put into their build, which again is fine, I just am wondering who has ran a bigger setup more simplified?
It seems that dosing, even manually, would be more advantageous than water changes.
Glennf over in belgium has a 300G tank that he hasn't changed water in since 2005, and he basically just doses everything and includes carbon because of a high bioload.

Anyways, I just would think that more volume with more stability would make simplification easier.

[d2mini]

The Triton Method which I'll be employing on my new build is all about dosing instead of water changes.
So yes, that is one way to go.
I tend to stick to the basics myself, trying to keep things fairly simple.
I just add some extras when it comes to automation because I'm lazy when it comes to maintenance. And I like to know what's going on at all times. So a controller is a must.
The only reactor I tend to run is some carbon for water clarity.

You can keep it fairly simple. But personally, I prefer to do it with a sump, especially since i'm a fan of a large refugium for natural filtration.

[BCool]

I might end up doing just this. I have a 4x4x2 cube that I am planning on doing an ATS, heater (both in overflow), gyre in tank, lights (chinese led), and an ato with kalk. That is how I ran my last tank and it was by far the best that I have ever had.

[PIPSTER]

Originally Posted by BCool

I might end up doing just this. I have a 4x4x2 cube that I am planning on doing an ATS, heater (both in overflow), gyre in tank, lights (chinese led), and an ato with kalk. That is how I ran my last tank and it was by far the best that I have ever had.

Please tell us more about that last tank of yours.

That's kind what I was thinking on the ATS, why not have a false overflow turned into a sorta AIO box for ATS or something?

I just don't see why a 200 gallon setup would have to cost $10,000.
Why not $2500 or so?

[BCool]

Yep, that is exactly what I did. It wasn't a large tank though. 26x26x18. I put in a corner overflow with an ats screen on it, lit with an led flood behind the glass. I had 2 heaters back there and a dc return pump to control the flow. I also had my ato going there. It ran great, sps, lps, some softies. Took it down to move and also had 2 bad ato incidents. Flooded my tank and floor with Kalk.

[heathlindner25]

It doesn't matter how large the system in my opinion, all you need is a large skimmer and a carbon source to eliminate nutrients. A sump is just somewhere to hide equipment.

[PIPSTER]

From the cost perspective, sumps and skimmers can triple the price of reefing systems.
A DIY skimmer could be somewhat hidden in a false overflow, too, I guess.

[ruiny]

I think trying to make a large system with a small budget is a bad idea.
I'm not saying it can't be done just I think its doomed at some point.
I had a 280 gallon and downsized to my current 93 because of cost $ and cost labour.
On a small tank like 20 gallons a 25% water change is one five gallon bucket.
On a 200 gallon its 10. not practical if you ask me.
Now its a chore not a hobby.

[PIPSTER]

I agree that at some point, water changes turn into a joke when size goes up.
I see many reefers here with large tanks that never do actual water changes, they dose elements and carbon, and just replace skimmer-removed water every once in awhile.

I'm starting to move that way myself, even though mine's just a 40B.
I've been able to keep almost zero phosphates and 2-4 ppm nitrates for a year now, I skim lightly, have Mrs. Wage's kalk in my ATO, and recently just upped my calcium and alk a little bit manually.

I'll change the water less frequently just to replenish some of the trace elements that are outside of the alk\ca\mag usuals.

It just seems to me, for comparison sake, that for going with 200-250 gallons the up front cost extras would be more sand and more rock, and for the first fill-up, more salt. And extra lighting.
But finding a used $400 tank vs. buying a new $2500 tank would save enough to justify the extra sand, rock, etc.

I don't mind testing and manually dosing, it's kinda part of the fun of the hobby to me.

I'm not so sure about scrapping 1800 inches of surface area algae on the back of the tank would be so fun...

[joshua_00030]

Originally Posted by PIPSTER

I'm not so sure about scrapping 1800 inches of surface area algae on the back of the tank would be so fun...

It's like going to the gym except you can watch your fish. Sounds fun to me

[ComforablyNumb]

I had a big tank with the bells and whistles, but sold it because I moved. But I still wanted a reef, so I went simple with a small 55g, no sump. I got a used Reef Octopus BR-1000 skimmer for $60, but I did spend some money on two A360we Kessils. Reef runs great.

I see no reason why that it couldn't just be scaled up to 200g and still be successful.

Pic of my simple/basic system:


*edit* sorry for dirty glass, it usually isn't. Cheers.

[codydemmel4]

Originally Posted by ComforablyNumb

I had a big tank with the bells and whistles, but sold it because I moved. But I still wanted a reef, so I went simple with a small 55g, no sump. I got a used Reef Octopus BR-1000 skimmer for $60, but I did spend some money on two A360we Kessils. Reef runs great.

I see no reason why that it couldn't just be scaled up to 200g and still be successful.

Pic of my simple/basic system:


*edit* sorry for dirty glass, it usually isn't. Cheers.

all you run is a skimmer? What about dosing? any reactors?

How often do you do water changes? Tank looks good though

[PIPSTER]

Originally Posted by joshua_00030

It's like going to the gym except you can watch your fish. Sounds fun to me

It's enough of a workout with a 40B once or twice a week!

[ComforablyNumb]

all you run is a skimmer? What about dosing? any reactors?
How often do you do water changes? Tank looks good though

Hi Cody!...the tank has an old Aquaclear 110 thats used for mechanical filtering, not biological, its cleaned out every week or so...the rocks alone do a nice job on the biological.
No reactors, no dosing... except once a month I may use some Kalk in my top up water.... if I think of it. I don't even test the water anymore.
Water change is 60% (the size of my Brute 33g container) and I do one every couple of months. In the theme of simple, tank is also bare bottom.

Here's a pic showing the intake for the 110 on the left:


And one of SPS that were 3 little sticks 6 months ago: (those Kessil's are terrific lights)


Simple works Cheers, Tim

[roberthu526]

Originally Posted by d2mini

A sump I don't see as added complication, other than a little plumbing.
The advantage is that it gets all that stuff out of your tank. Heaters, dosing lines, etc.
If you have coral, you need to keep things stable and certain equipment is just plain needed for that. I'd much rather have that stuff hidden away in the sump/stand.
While you may be able to keep stable NSW parameters in a nano with water changes, that's not going to happen in a 2-300 gallon tank.
Even my 25g nano requires two-part dosing.

See even with a sump I still keep my two aqueon pro heaters in the tank because seeing the heaters turning on and off give me peace of mind. Maybe I am paranoid... But I also read that most heaters should be kept up right to function properly. Laying on the side may cause condensation and clicking in the long run. My background is black and aqueon pro is also black so not a big eye sore for me. Tried to keep them in the sump but couldn't resist checking every few minutes