Very frustrated with my LED lighting

[Renzema]

I have a 34g cube(20x20x20), and the nano box duo plus M. I am really struggling with spot lighting and color of my sps. I have tested the par ratings, and the look lower than I would like. I know it isn't very accurate. barely reaching 150 at the upper coral tips, and 80 on the sand.

That isn't my worse issue with the light. the duo is producing a spot light effect on all my corals.any part that gets direct light is decent in color. Every other part is brown. The only thing that has changed is my light.

Parameters always stay constant with a calcium reactor, and ATO. Water is alway RO/DI

Parameters:

SG: 1.026
ammonia/nitrites: 0
nitrates: sub 5 pmm
phos: .02
dkh: 10
calcium: 430
Mag: 1500

Lighting schedule:

12 hours on/off

1 hour ramp up to mid-day, no morning
mid-day: 100% blue/violet/royal blue, 45% on white

Evening runs for about 3 hours with 45min ramp.
Evening: 50% blue/violet/royal blue, 5% on white

I am so frustrated at this point I am considering getting rid of it, and going to MH. Is there any way to add lighting to the fixture, or any ideas? I am open to any ideas, since I do like the fixture.

Thanks for the help

[h3dgehog]

This is what happened to me and I got a 250W radium bulb. I can also tell you that the light just looks brighter than the LEDs for some reason...

If you don't wanna get rid of it, I'd suggest that you supplement with T5s or just get additional LED fixtures and point them at angels so you minimize shading.

[NaturalReef]

Hi Renz,

Led's can be a pain to get dialed in. I have been using them for almost 10 years and this is what i have learned. Whenever I bring my whites higher than 25 percent, my color suffers. I keep a 20-25 k temperature with my Aqua illumination and everything thrives. I would try a test and keep a 20+ kelvin on your tank for a few weeks before ditching the light and see how your corals react. Also make sure your corals are being fed either manually or via the fish. Also keep coral stress to a minimum, mine brown when stressed too much from swings etc. Blue light is very healing to coral. If this does indeed work, then lower your whites till you find the happy place for color and growth. Blasting led's without nutrients and proper alk will stress your coral....the biggest success for me was when I emphasized coverage/spectrum over intensity. Hth's

[Renzema]

I'll give that a try. Nanobox suggests 3:1 (blue:white) to get 20K+. Looks very dim.

Also thinking of raising it up to get a better spread. Right now at about 6", should I move it up?

[Nano sapiens]

How high is the fixture off the top of the tank?

Many smaller cube tanks use LED successfully and the Nano Box color output is considered one of the best. I have a DIY array designed for maximum light spread, but if I already had a Nano Box DUO on your sized tank I'd personally look for either another one to get a more even light spread and intensity, or run some T5s with the existing DUO for the same purpose.

Might want to contact Dave directly at Nano Box with your specific situation and ask for advice.

Edit: Yes, LEDs often look dim to our eyes since we don't see blue/violet very well, but to the corals it's quite intense (lots of PUR in those spectra).

[Renzema]

My light is about 6" off the surface, and a litte forward. I keep it at a slight tilt to the back.

I purchased the nanobox because of all of the great reviews.

[Renzema]

Originally Posted by NaturalReef

Hi Renz,

Led's can be a pain to get dialed in. I have been using them for almost 10 years and this is what i have learned. Whenever I bring my whites higher than 25 percent, my color suffers. I keep a 20-25 k temperature with my Aqua illumination and everything thrives. I would try a test and keep a 20+ kelvin on your tank for a few weeks before ditching the light and see how your corals react. Also make sure your corals are being fed either manually or via the fish. Also keep coral stress to a minimum, mine brown when stressed too much from swings etc. Blue light is very healing to coral. If this does indeed work, then lower your whites till you find the happy place for color and growth. Blasting led's without nutrients and proper alk will stress your coral....the biggest success for me was when I emphasized coverage/spectrum over intensity. Hth's

I responded to you above but not about feeding. I feed the fish rods food every other day, and dose oyster feast twice a week.

[Rakie]

Originally Posted by h3dgehog

This is what happened to me and I got a 250W radium bulb. I can also tell you that the light just looks brighter than the LEDs for some reason...

If you don't wanna get rid of it, I'd suggest that you supplement with T5s or just get additional LED fixtures and point them at angels so you minimize shading.

Because LED's are extremely directional, the majority of their light is highly focused (hence the spot-lighting) and with so little light bleeding out of the tank it looks darker.

To OP -- I could be wrong, but I think that light isn't sufficient for a tank of your size. Go with T5, supplement some T5, or sell/trade it for a different LED system.

It's funny -- People with the Mars Aqua LED's don't have those type of issues and they're cheapy China stuff.

[Renzema]

Originally Posted by Rakie

Because LED's are extremely directional, the majority of their light is highly focused (hence the spot-lighting) and with so little light bleeding out of the tank it looks darker.

To OP -- I could be wrong, but I think that light isn't sufficient for a tank of your size. Go with T5, supplement some T5, or sell/trade it for a different LED system.

It's funny -- People with the Mars Aqua LED's don't have those type of issues and they're cheapy China stuff.

I am ok with the dimmer look. More and more I am thinking it isn't enough. I want a clean look for the lighting. Adding another fixture would ruin that, and I might as well go with a single DE 250w MH.

Also doesn't t5's start at 24" so they would over hang the edge of the tank...

Thanks for the help.

[Nano sapiens]

The 'Mars Aqua LED' uses relatively wide spread emitters which spread the light out more evenly than tight cluster arrays such as the Nano Box. IMO, the quality of the Nano Box LEDs and product is much better, though, and I would expect it to substantially outlast the chinese product. Personally, wouldn't abandon a DUO if I had one, however, I would definitely supplement it for this size tank containing Acros and other SPS.

[Nano sapiens]

Originally Posted by Renzema

Also doesn't t5's start at 24" so they would over hang the edge of the tank...

You can also get 18" T5, but the selection is a bit more limited.

I believe that Dave at Nano Box also has a 'Hybrid' LED and T5 'Coming Soon':

http://nanoboxreef.com/hybrid.html

Looks like 24" length...

[champion6sigma]

If you are getting low par readings wouldn't raising it just lower your readings? I'm quite surprised that an led fixture is having trouble providing adequate light for your dimension tank . . . . but I don't know much about your brand or model. I use ecotech radion pro on my cube which is slightly larger than yours. Seems like a lot of members on forum do well with my brand or the less expense Chinese variants ...

Sent from my BlackBerry PRIV using taptalk

[Renzema]

Originally Posted by Nano sapiens

The 'Mars Aqua LED' uses relatively wide spread emitters which spread the light out more evenly than tight cluster arrays such as the Nano Box. IMO, the quality of the Nano Box LEDs and product is much better, though, and I would expect it to substantially outlast the chinese product. Personally, wouldn't abandon a DUO if I had one, however, I would definitely supplement it for this size tank containing Acros and other SPS.

Any suggestions on what to add that still keep a clean look?

[Nano sapiens]

Originally Posted by Renzema

Any suggestions on what to add that still keep a clean look?

There are so many ways to go with this. Cheapest, since you already have the DUO, might be to contact Dave at Nanobox and see what he might suggest for either all LEDs ('QUAD', maybe?) or LED/T5, all while keeping everything in one housing for neatness.

Hybrid LED/T5 systems and all seem to start at 24". Nanocustoms used to make an 18" Hybrid, but I believe they are now defunct, unfortunately.

MH/T5 Hybrid, you'd need to find something that would work well on your sized tank.

MH/LED/T5: Ultimate combo, pricey, no doubt.

Google search on these combos brings up the major manufacturers (Giesemann, ATI, etc.)

[Rakie]

Originally Posted by Renzema

More and more I am thinking it isn't enough.

That's what I'm saying -- It LOOKS like it isnt' enough... But odds are it is more than enough. LED's trick our eyes, humans don't have good vision for most of the important spectrums for photosynthesis (Humans are basically blind to what the color Red really looks like, for example).

That why people care so much about PAR now, because LED's make it impossible to judge by looking.

So keep in mind ---

1) You can't see LED's as well as other lights. You will think it's dim, when really it's just as bright, or maybe even more bright..

2) LED's have been proven, especially the Nano Box -- But the BEST LED reefs have multiple light sources to prevent shadowing and other issues from cropping up

3) T5's are awesome. What looks better, a sleek looking light over your poop brown reef, or a beautiful colorful reef with a light that hangs 2" over on each side?

[champion6sigma]

Is there a chart somewherere created by someone knowledgeable on lighting which states recommended PART in a tank based on coral...?

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[Rakie]

Originally Posted by champion6sigma

Is there a chart somewherere created by someone knowledgeable on lighting which states recommended PART in a tank based on coral...?

Sent from my BlackBerry PRIV using taptalk

I think there is but I can't find it. I just remember SPS was between 200-400 depending on how much of a light lover it was, and LPS was 200 to 150, softies 150-75.

[champion6sigma]

They need rent-a-par...at the LFS

maybe one day I'll get a par meter. My radion g3 pro is fairly low on tank...I actually didn't realize it was so low until I measured it recently. 9 inches.....many have to worry that they aren't getting enough light...i think in my case...i have ability to fry my softies...I dont have sps...so it would be a benefit to know what i'm doing.

Thanks RAKIE

Now as far as those numbers...not sure if you know this or someone else can answer.

If there is a set par level range thats good for sps, lps, softies, etc...

how many hours should coral get that? For instance I have my light setting on a radion preset and its brightest in middle of day, typical bell curve. Is just a few hours of recommended par suitable for coral or is 1 hour of recommended par per day enough....hope that question makes sense...instead of having a triangular looking bell curve...should it be more of rise in lighting and plateau level for a certain amount of hours before ramping down...

[Rakie]

You should watch the Bulk Reef Supply videos about lighting -- Like week 21-25, and then the weeks on the types of corals you're interested in (week 35-37).

They have a lot of information, especially on par, how to use types of lighting, and what lighting each corals prefer. Very good solid information.

Originally Posted by champion6sigma

They need rent-a-par...at the LFS

maybe one day I'll get a par meter. My radion g3 pro is fairly low on tank...I actually didn't realize it was so low until I measured it recently. 9 inches.....many have to worry that they aren't getting enough light...i think in my case...i have ability to fry my softies...I dont have sps...so it would be a benefit to know what i'm doing.

Thanks RAKIE

Now as far as those numbers...not sure if you know this or someone else can answer.

If there is a set par level range thats good for sps, lps, softies, etc...

how many hours should coral get that? For instance I have my light setting on a radion preset and its brightest in middle of day, typical bell curve. Is just a few hours of recommended par suitable for coral or is 1 hour of recommended par per day enough....hope that question makes sense...instead of having a triangular looking bell curve...should it be more of rise in lighting and plateau level for a certain amount of hours before ramping down...

[Renzema]

Update:

after increasing my LED's to 100% for blues and 33% white. Dave from Nanobox said it would give about 20k+. My par reading during peak was only 120 par in the highest locations.

My growth has sped up substantially. Digi's and red dragon have grown 1" each in 3 weeks( I just measure). Color is still an issue lots of shadowing, and some corals have bleached out on their back sides. Millie's are brown. My monti cap is very bright as well as the red dragon.

Solution:

I have just added a second Nanobox. Now have a duo and tide. Both are plus M models. This has really helped. Duo is at the front facing back and the tide is in the back point straight down. Both are about 4" off the water. Both set to 80% blue and 25% white at peack(runs at that for 5.5 hours). My recent par test showed I am getting between 180-200 par at the top corals and 100-120 par at the bottom. I have lowered down the duo and plan to slowly increase.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Still having trouble calibrating the apogee sq-420 par meter. Usually just set a +5 on it.

Thanks for any advice.

[Rakie]

Originally Posted by Renzema

Update:

after increasing my LED's to 100% for blues and 33% white. Dave from Nanobox said it would give about 20k+. My par reading during peak was only 120 par in the highest locations.

My growth has sped up substantially. Digi's and red dragon have grown 1" each in 3 weeks( I just measure). Color is still an issue lots of shadowing, and some corals have bleached out on their back sides. Millie's are brown. My monti cap is very bright as well as the red dragon.

Solution:

I have just added a second Nanobox. Now have a duo and tide. Both are plus M models. This has really helped. Duo is at the front facing back and the tide is in the back point straight down. Both are about 4" off the water. Both set to 80% blue and 25% white at peack(runs at that for 5.5 hours). My recent par test showed I am getting between 180-200 par at the top corals and 100-120 par at the bottom. I have lowered down the duo and plan to slowly increase.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Still having trouble calibrating the apogee sq-420 par meter. Usually just set a +5 on it.

Thanks for any advice.

That's better, but still a little low in the PAR.

- You will almost ALWAYS have shadowing with LEDs unless you have a LOT of them pointed all over the place. It's common for SPS with LED's to bleach on their back sides because it's not getting light.

- It sounds like you could still turn up the whites, I would very slowly increase your white spectrum and see if it can help restore any color. Most likely you will need your blues at 100% on both units.