Lessons Learned

[ameera]

I am usually a lurker to forums, never a poster; however, I would like to share my story in hopes it helps someone.

I have always wanted a fish tank, but I moved so often that I was not able to have one. Last year, my SO and I purchased a home. We were finally stable! For my birthday he bought me a fish tank. I was so excited. He went to a fish store and was given advice on maintaining a saltwater tank and left with a brand new 30 gallon tank. He said we would need to get it set up with water and cycle it for a month and then we can start adding to it. That weekend we went to the store together and I purchased the water and let the cycling begin.

One month later...
We revisit the fish store. I really trust the guys here. They received so many great reviews on yelp and google. We were informed that the next step is to add live rock and let it cycle. I was disappointed that I couldn't have fish. Why didn't they tell me this one month ago? Anyway, we purchased about 10 or so pounds of live rock and let it cycle again.

One month later...
We visit the fish store and are ready to buy fish! I inform the fish experts that I am a noob. I know absolutely nothing. They suggest I bring in a sample of water for them to test so that they can confirm my tank is ready. I am a little disappointed again because I still did not understand the complexities of owning a marine tank. However, I am appreciative that they are pushing me in the right direction. I had no idea that the water needed to be tested. This would also have been helpful on day one.

One week later...
I return to the store with my water. The store is not very close to our home and we can only go on the weekend. They tell us our parameters are off. We need to buy pH buffer, calcium, alkalinity buffer. We do this and go home and add the buffers according to the instructions.

Two months pass by...
We let two months pass as directed with the cycling and then returned with a sample of our water. The results said we were ready! My boyfriend and I were over the moon. I was so excited! I wanted a starfish and a purple fish. He wanted a crab and a goby. We also got another blue and yellow fish. This was fantastic. After months of waiting, we would finally be able to enjoy our tank. The fish experts told us to acclimate for 30 minutes on a slow drip and sold us some hoses and food. We went to the hardware store for buckets.

When we got home, we started the drip. When the water was doubled from the drip, as instructed, we moved our new pets into the aquarium. For hours we sat watching the fish. The decorator crab immediately started decorating himself. The starfish moved to the top of a rock. It was beautiful and we were both pleased/

One day later....
I notice a few strings in the tank, like silk. I immediately started researching. Silk in tank? Strings in tank? Was it poop? What did fish poop look like? Did the fish bring it with them? I couldn't find anything.

One day later...
The starfish is laying on the bottom of the tank in the sand. One of its legs is full of the silky stuff. We immediately believe it was attacked. Who was the culprit. We took turns watching the tank to see who was attacking our starfish, Patrick. No one seemed to be bothering it.

The next day...
The starfish is even worse. Three of its legs are deteriorating. This, I was sure of. We started googling. And then we found our answer. It was melting. Apparently, these are sensitive creatures and our pH was too low. I called the fish shop and requested to speak to a manager. They said our pH was too low and I couldn't support a starfish. I referenced the receipt they gave me and how they reviewed it and said I could have a starfish. (The fish store guy helped us pick our pets). The manager said someone at the store made a mistake. He suggested a refund. I denied and requested he train his team so that this would not happen again. A few days later Patrick died. It was the saddest thing because we just sat and watched him die. I couldn't help him. It was then that I learned that this hobby requires A LOT of research. You have to know what you are doing and shouldn't expect the fish store to teach you. They want to sell fish.

Heartbroken from the death of Patrick, my boyfriend and I started researching nonstop. Oh! We should test the pH ourselves! Oh! We should check the temperature! Oh! Some fish don't get along! Oh! we need several test kits. We need to regulate the lighting properly. We learned so much (and are continuing to learn).

A week later...
Diatoms overrun our tank. We contact another store and do some research online for a solution and get a salinity remover. We wash our rocks with a toothbrush. We clean the glass. We are up until 2 am trying to save our tank. It's terrible. But then things get even worse.

One week later..
Our purple and yellow fish is acting weird. He keeps hiding in a rock and has something weird on its side. We research and research but cannot find a solution. We are testing the water every day and treating it as instructions say. I'm devastated.

One day later...
I can't find the goby. We check everywhere. It's feeding time and he is nowhere in sight. We go to dinner.

Two hours later...
My boyfriend tells me not to enter the bedroom. He didn't want me to see the carnage. The decorator crab killed the goby and was eating it. It also attacked our purple and yellow fish.

---
This whole experience went from happiness and pure excitement to complete depression in weeks. In the end, we can only blame ourselves. WE should have researched. WE shouldn't have relied on the store's advice. WE are accountable.

I thought that the best advice would come from the fish store. They're the experts, right? Wrong. All they did was take over 1k from us. Their mission was to sell, and sell they did.

My advice to anyone new to the hobby would be to research, research, research before you start. Know your tools. Know how to maintain a tank. And before you buy anything, know who it gets along with. Know what kind of environment it needs. We have two fish left and will only keep these two until we are comfortable running a tank. We are keeping a journal to document the tank levels every day. I'm sure this is a fun hobby. We got off to a terrible start but I'm sure with time, and study, we will eventually have a nice stable tank and hopefully upgrade to a much larger one.

[GaG8tor]

Sorry to hear of your bad experience. There is such a learning curve with this hobby and you have made the first turn. Research research and more research will be your best friend. I've been out of the hobby for a while and just got back into it a couple of weeks ago. It really is lots of fun and you will meet some great people. I recognize some names from when I was on here many years ago. While you've had a terrible experience you have learned a valuable lesson. You will hear many different opinions and while there are certain things you must do there is no right or wrong way. Every tank is different. You just have to listen and pay attention to what your particular tank tells you to do. You are certainly in good company here. There are lots of great people here with good advice who are willing and able to help.

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[Dogshowgrl]

It took me over a year to find an ally in this hobby. Yes it is great hobby, too many never find this forum and give it up or throw money at it and keep killing fish taken off the Reef with no regard. It gets better, I promise. Welcome. I hate it has been tough for you so far but when you get your confidence up and some research done I bet you will have an awesome tank because of this terrible experience.

If you are close to central Florida (I doubt it but...) My LFS is a good one (I know crazy right!?) And gives classes! She is a conservationist and kind. And saved my tank! She made a midnight trip when my A/c went out to save my tank. She talks people out of "things you need" but really don't and loses so much money but it's the right thing to do. I hate when people come in and have been through what you have. I am sorry they are jerks. But know it gets so much better.

Good luck with future endeavors! Let me know if you need anything!

[hotelbravo]

I am sorry to hear you are having trouble. I highly advise you to ask here about your future purchases to get proper feedback. there are many of us on here who will help you and are not after your money in an way, shape, or form.

[Bent]

Originally Posted by GaG8tor

Sorry to hear of your bad experience. There is such a learning curve with this hobby and you have made the first turn. Research research and more research will be your best friend. I've been out of the hobby for a while and just got back into it a couple of weeks ago. It really is lots of fun and you will meet some great people. I recognize some names from when I was on here many years ago. While you've had a terrible experience you have learned a valuable lesson. You will hear many different opinions and while there are certain things you must do there is no right or wrong way. Every tank is different. You just have to listen and pay attention to what your particular tank tells you to do. You are certainly in good company here. There are lots of great people here with good advice who are willing and able to help.

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Listen, this has nothing to do with reef tanks or anything, but I had to say....

This was either a great read with really good composition, or I'm just really hammered.

I feel like it was easy to read, exciting and composed well. Are you a writer by chance? What do you do for a living?

[DrPheel]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience But please promise us you will not give up on this wonderful hobby ! I know its lots of reading but they are many good books and videos on YouTube that give you the walk around of the general stuff. Its hard to understand when you do the research on the spot and under the stress of something bad happening. I think we have all been there at some point no matter how experienced we are .... if not this forum would be dead

I know BRS TV has a nice video series giving a small overview on setting up a tank from A to Z. And when I was thinking of starting up the hobby, I was gifted 2 Mr Saltwater Tank books that help me understand more advance stuff that I later found useful on my second tank build. He also make videos on youtube with good tips & tricks.

Get as much information from different sources and then you will be able to make a logical and educated decision to attack any issues. In this hobby, something that works for one may not work for the other but they are some basics rules of science/chemistry that cannot be cheated or broken.

Hang in there and happy reefing !

[Xxero]

Originally Posted by Bent

This was either a great read with really good composition, or I'm just really hammered.

[Scottshopinc]

Originally Posted by Bent

Listen, this has nothing to do with reef tanks or anything, but I had to say....

This was either a great read with really good composition, or I'm just really hammered.

I feel like it was easy to read, exciting and composed well. Are you a writer by chance? What do you do for a living?

I felt the same way as you half way through. But yeah, never trust the guys selling you anything. That much I have learned, only a very few care about your tank.

[ca1ore]

Keeping a reef tank successfully is not easy. Reading as much as you can before setting it up is always a good thing. LFS vary; some are good and some are not. Depending upon the starfish, probably not a good choice for even an expert reefer, let alone a novice (demise likely had nothing to do with pH), so that's on them.

[homer1475]

I fail to see why everyone gets on the LFS for selling someone something. That is after all what they are there for. Kind of like live aquaria, they don't ask you what size tank you have, or what your parameters are, they are there to sell you fish, and it's something they do very well, same as your LFS. The only way they stay in business is to sell people fish. Its their entire business model, sell people fish and products. Without selling things, their bottom line is a negative and they will close their doors very soon.

Should they ask what size tank you have, or what your experience level is before selling you something, sure. But if they did that all the time, there would be an even more shortage of LFS around.

It's not up to the LFS to do the research for the new pet owner. I hate the way how everyone blames the LFS around here when they are just doing what they are supposed to be doing, selling things!

[heathlindner25]

Not bashing at all, but fish are one of the only animals that people will do no research before purchasing. I wouldn't buy a chicken ,lizard, dog,horse,or any other animal without knowing what they need to survive.

[wnehez]

Haha it made me laugh when you said "Oh we should check the temperature" That just showed how feet first you jumped into this thing. If you had no experience with any type of fish ever, you should've googled starting a saltwater tank. Especially during the 2+ months that you had the tank cycling. Get rid of that decorator crab also. They're just no good. The diatom bloom was probably from adding so much waste into the tank at once. A 30 gallon isn't really that big and a couple fish can add quite a lot right away. Just do research on future purchases, and when in doubt, ask here. It takes a while but there is sooo much information out there and believe it or not, it is ALL very very useful in this hobby. Don't give up, do research, and ask every and any question you can think of. Look up "cycle process in a saltwater aquarium" to learn about the cycle process, look up "saltwater fish compatibility chart" to see which fish are OK with each other, and then look up each individual fish to see what their requirements are. The info is out there, you just have to spend the time and look. Good luck and sorry your first time was painful

[GaG8tor]

Originally Posted by Bent

Listen, this has nothing to do with reef tanks or anything, but I had to say....

This was either a great read with really good composition, or I'm just really hammered.

I feel like it was easy to read, exciting and composed well. Are you a writer by chance? What do you do for a living?

I'm a land surveyor but my GF and I are writing a book

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[Ron Reefman]

Originally Posted by homer1475

I fail to see why everyone gets on the LFS for selling someone something. That is after all what they are there for. Kind of like live aquaria, they don't ask you what size tank you have, or what your parameters are, they are there to sell you fish, and it's something they do very well, same as your LFS. The only way they stay in business is to sell people fish. Its their entire business model, sell people fish and products. Without selling things, their bottom line is a negative and they will close their doors very soon.

Should they ask what size tank you have, or what your experience level is before selling you something, sure. But if they did that all the time, there would be an even more shortage of LFS around.

It's not up to the LFS to do the research for the new pet owner. I hate the way how everyone blames the LFS around here when they are just doing what they are supposed to be doing, selling things!

You are being a lousy advocate for the LFS that do crappy customer service. Yes the store is there to sell you stuff. HOWEVER, if the customer asks a question about the thing you want to buy, any retailer worth his or her salt will give you a straight up answer or ask you some questions so they can try and help. Unfortunately, way too many LFS, IMHO, just want to sell you stuff. And if it isn't good for your tank or it's a bad choice, screw you, you asked to buy it.

Example: But I asked if the Linkia star was an easy animal to keep, especially for a brand new 40g tank. Oh sure the LFS says, we sell lots of these stars... isn't it pretty? Sure they sell lots of them, but 95% are dead within 6 months!

And the comparison to Live Aquaria is bogus as well. LA isn't a live selling experience. I don't expect them to give me advise, it's online sales. That's why people go to the LFS, they want personal help! And even LA offers up fairly honest opinions about how easy or difficult and animal is to keep and if it gets along with others. It's there for anybody to read. At least they don't lie to your face like too many LFS do.

And to be fair, I very, very rarely buy anything from an LFS. In fact just yesterday a friend who is kind of new to the hobby asked me to go with him to visit 2 LFS in our area. One was big, had lots of really nice corals and fish. It was WAY over priced and the owner acted like he was doing us a favor to give us a couple of prices (almost nothing was marked). $10 a polyp for a clove polyp coral... seriously! Obviously I didn't buy anything. The second store was smaller and really not very well stocked. But the prices were considerably more reasonable. And I even know the owner well enough that he knows my name. They had a sea cucumber that I have wanted for some time, but every time I place an order at LA, this cucumber is out of stock. The price at the LFS was only $3 more than on LA, that's great. I know full well that this cucumber is listed as difficult to keep and if it dies it can be toxic in the tank. I asked if it was hearty, easy to keep and reef safe? The answer I got, from a guy who knows me was, "I find them very easy to keep and they are perfectly reef safe." What a load of mush mouth marketing BS that evades the true answer. What he said was completely true, but didn't give me the 'true' situation for this purchase. I knew full well what I was buying, I just wanted to confirm my beliefs about the animal. Instead what I confirmed is that I'll never believe anything somebody in an LFS tells me unless I confirm it from other sources.

Is it any wonder that even with high shipping rates for livestock that so many online companies like LA exist and LFS stores come and go with the seasons?

[homer1475]

I never said there wasn't bad LFS's as obviously you pointed out one.

My whole point was how everyone on here blames the LFS for doing what their business model says they should do, sell livestock.

I will agree with you on certain things though. If you ask a specific question, they should answer you truthfully, and not just sell you something when they know it will not live.

I think online vendors are a perfect example to compare to an LFS. They never ask you your tank size or water parameters, or what your experience level is, all they want to do is sell you something. If someone doesn't ask the LFS, why should they bother telling you and not make a sale?

And I disagree with you on why people go to an LFS instead of online vendors. Most people want to actually see what they are getting in real life, not pictures. I also believe most online vendors exists and thrive because 99% of the time they are cheaper then an LFS, and they can usually get items most LFS would be hard pressed to find. For instance, I was looking for a black sun coral, it took my LFS nearly 2 months to get one in for me. I could have gone online and had one in a matter of a couple days.

[mandarin_goby]

Just to add....a crab or shrimp typically won't kill/eat a healthy fish...the fish were probably already compromised or even dead before the crab got to him. That's my bet.

I give you props for being so patient! A 2 month wait would've killed me. You did a lot more preliminary testing etc. than most people do before they put critters in (me included).

Being obsessive and chasing numbers regarding parameters can drive one crazy...eventually you can go by sight - do my corals look happy? Why is my clam more closed than usual? My zoas aren't opening, why is that? Time for a water change or a top off, maybe my lights are too bright, maybe my flow is too high, looks like I need to clean my pumps. There's a lot of fine tuning. You'll get a feel for what looks right and what doesn't.

That is of course, if you're not dosing (I'm not). I don't keep SPS which requires a lot more finesse and attention, so I am absolutely not an expert at that! I like to keep it easy(er)...

[moe103]

Actually, a better business model for the LFS would be to educate the customers and help them make appropriate purchases. If people buy fish that survive and thrive in their tanks, it will lead them to invest more time, interest and money into the hobby. Having a successful tank creates the urge for a bigger tank and more fish, which in turn, translates into more sales for the LFS.

Another reason why we are upset at dishonest LFS is that the true loser is a living creature that dies. If your business is selling living things you should care about their lives. Otherwise, find another retail venture. I am in healthcare because I want to make a living but also want to help people at the same time. If I just wanted to make money I would have become a lawyer.

Especially in the case of the OP, the store was conscientious enough to test her water and make her wait while the tank cycled. Why couldn't they take the same care in guiding her to make the appropriate purchases.

[BigEZ77]

I'm sorry to hear that you had this experience ameera. Unfortunately this is not the type of hobby you can just jump in to without a lot of research to learn, which you obviously know now. This forum helped me greatly in the early stages and I spent hours upon hours researching before delving into anything. There is so much to know, which in my opinion, is the fun of it. I'm a bit of a compulsive online shopper, look at all reviews and prices before buying anything...I like to occupy my time in the evenings this way and this hobby is certainly a compulsive online shoppers dream come true, lol. I am also lucky enough to have a very honest small mom and pop shop (and marine biologist) LFS...would never buy from a place like Big Als, their staff has no idea about anything. On this forum, there are so many good stickies to get you started, follow those instructions and you'll be a-ok for your second time around.

[yakk]

I am finally at the stage where I think I know what I'm doing as far as my water parameters and fish selections go for my FOWLR.

Unfortunately, I got into this hobby on slightly more than a whim. I went to a lfs and explained to them that I knew absolutely nothing about the hobby. They gave me some good advice and some bad advice. I added fish as soon as they told me it was okay. After several losses of fish, I found this place and learned how much I didn't know.

When I brought my newly acquired information to my lfs, the owner said yeah well if we told everyone the truth about how long it takes to cycle and stabilize a tank, nobody would ever get into this Hobby.

Shame on me? Yes. Shame on them? Absolutely.

[Sk8r]

Step one here is to read the sticky with the red arrow: that will explain a lot of what happened. Everyone who reads the account will say--oh, my---at various points, because what likely happened is between the lines.
You won't have wasted your money: we can help you get reorganized into the tank you hoped you would have. I'd omit the crab and starfish as bad bets.
Tell us what you have, including brand names and sizes. SIze of tank. Etc.

[thelawnwrangler]

Saw this posted the other day

and it really has to be your attitude when going to LFS. I like to ask them questions, but I have my opinion of what the answer should be. If I get a different answer then back to the research desk.

[Sk8r]

What would really help us help you is a full equipment list, including sizes and brands. The tank is ok and likely doesn't have to be recycled, but the chemistry got pushed too far too fast by the addition (and demise) of livestock, among other problems.
Need amount of sand, whether live; what weight of rock, how much live rock versus not, etc.

[gunther13mt]

sorry for your loss I recently had the same thing happen. I trusted my LFS and bought a Ritteri (H. magnifition) he later died as a result of my tank not being ready to handle him. cost me a 100 dollars and many trips with him to my LFS to figure out what was going on to only be told hes fine just pooping. lesson learned and I since have done a lot more research and have now been hosting a condy anemone for a month who is coming back from being bleached and is thriving in my tank.

[BlueLineSpecial]

It is so easy to do in this hobby. I had always owned freshwater aquariums. I would be so envious of the saltwater tanks when I went to the LFS that I decided to swap to marine tanks. In similar fashion, I was no where near prepared for the disaster that ensued. I mean, its an aquarium, how hard can it be right?

Three years later and I'm still learning. This hobby isn't like golf, you're never going to know it all. Just stick with it, keep learning, and as all of the other posters have said, ask first from a reputable source. I was duped by a LFS as well when I first got in to reefing. Now, I research beyond the point of absurdity and then purchase. This hobby will teach you humility and patience better than anything ever could. That or you'll just go broke. HA! Start small, research, and have patience. Best of Luck!

[LuizW13]

I've been researching on and off for about 3 years now...
I'm just now about to dive in, i don't think i can learn much more from reading and watching; gotta get my hands dirty now.