Over 2K in coral, crazy to get a dwarf angel?

[BigEZ77]

I'm looking at a flameback dwarf angel, is this a crazy thought with the amount invested in coral thus far? Roughly 80% is fleshy LPS. Pieces I am most concerned about are my ultra torch, ultra hammer and warpaint scoly.

I understand its a 50/50 chance with these guys. So what I'm wondering is, if I get this fish and it becomes a nipper, is it likely it can kill corals in one day or is it more likely that I'll see some minor damage and be able to remove/return the angel before it kills a coral completely?

Thanks,

[Animagus]

Being that it's only a 45 gallon tank it should be fairly easy to remove the fish if things take a turn for the worst. The High & Dry method outlined in the link below has always worked well for me. GL.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/sp/index.php

Btw, I think you'll see some minor damage to a coral before it ravages the whole thing. Then again, you need to be around to intervene if the fish does decides to go rouge.

[BigEZ77]

Originally Posted by Animagus

The High & Dry method outlined in the link below has always worked well for me. GL.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/sp/index.php

Thanks for the link. Never heard of that method before. I have a commercial trap but this sounds like a much faster option. Will have to find me a 40G can.

[BigEZ77]

Ps. So they do have the potential to go rogue and eat enough of a coral to kill it in one day if I'm at work?

[Sk8r]

stark raving mad. Yes, they can really damage one. I'd suggest maybe a damsel could provide the body shape and vivid color of an angel, while NOT eating your corals. An azure or any of the species would do well; avoid the dascyllus species like dominos and the striped, who get somewhat larger and tend to be pushy.

[thegrun]

I have had good luck with a couple of different Flame Angels over the years, but it is purely luck. I have had a Flame Angel in my 120 gallon tank of over a year now without issue, but even then they can go rouge even after behaving themselves of a few years. I would say a best you have a 50% success rate, probably lower. If you do decide to take the gamble, I would put the angel though the TTM and then place it in a separate tank with several different types of coral frags to see how it does before placing it in your display tank. On a side note if you were planning on placing it in your 45 gallon tank I would pass on it for sure, they get very aggressive in tanks under 75 gallons and would likely take out their aggression on other fish.

[GimpyFin]

I agree with thegrun. It's a 50/50 really. I've had one for almost 3 years and he hasn't touched a thing, but I've heard of people with the opposite experience. I got mine when he was really small, but it may or not make much difference there.

[BigEZ77]

Sk8r, lol and I think I'm going to avoid damsels for aggression issues.

thegrun, I'm looking at the Flameback, not the Flame. Do the aggression issues still apply for the Flameback?

I really really want a dwarf angel, but don't know if I can bring myself to pull the trigger because of the coral investment. Really torn on this one.

[itz frank]

Originally Posted by BigEZ77

Sk8r, lol and I think I'm going to avoid damsels for aggression issues.

thegrun, I'm looking at the Flameback, not the Flame. Do the aggression issues still apply for the Flameback?

I really really want a dwarf angel, but don't know if I can bring myself to pull the trigger because of the coral investment. Really torn on this one.

Sounds to me like you're better off passing. Everyone that ever looks into this is usually offered the advice of:

If you're attached to your corals, you're better off not.

[billdogg]

I have had, over the years, Coral Beauty, Flame, Potters, pygmy, flameback pygmy, and now a fireball angel. All of them in mixed reefs ranging in size from 60-120g. The only one to ever cause a problem with corals was the potters. My current Fireball has been in the tank for a couple years now and never even looked at a coral. Perhaps I've just been lucky, but that has been my experience.

The problems I have had with any and all is the introduction of new fish. They all tend to be the boss of the tank (or at least think they are). A few days of harassment and the new fish has then been left alone.

[shifty51008]

Originally Posted by BigEZ77

Sk8r, lol and I think I'm going to avoid damsels for aggression issues.

thegrun, I'm looking at the Flameback, not the Flame. Do the aggression issues still apply for the Flameback?

I really really want a dwarf angel, but don't know if I can bring myself to pull the trigger because of the coral investment. Really torn on this one.

honestly I think damsels get a bad rap, ive owned a lot of damsels before and they are useually the most calm of my fish, there are however some damsels like the sg major's that are mean but most are little puppies IME

[BigEZ77]

Originally Posted by shifty51008

honestly I think damsels get a bad rap, ive owned a lot of damsels before and they are useually the most calm of my fish, there are however some damsels like the sg major's that are mean but most are little puppies IME

Maybe, and I do like the look and vibrant colors of the azure and yellow tail. I'd really like to have one of them and a sixline (put both in at the same time of course), but I'm concerned that if any of my other fish passed away, it would be really hard to add another one since I've read that both the damsel and the sixline could be really hard on new additions.

Sk8r, is the azure the most peaceful damsel? I see it appears to grow to be the largest, LA lists 4" max size.

[BigEZ77]

Originally Posted by itz frank

Sounds to me like you're better off passing. Everyone that ever looks into this is usually offered the advice of:

If you're attached to your corals, you're better off not.

Sadly I think you're right.

[eshtog]

Originally Posted by BigEZ77

Sadly I think you're right.

+1 IME any Angel I had always went after LPS.

[itz frank]

Originally Posted by BigEZ77

Sadly I think you're right.

I would recommend taking a look into swallow tail Angels. They won't be dwarfs and can run 5-7" fully grown.

Although, I forget your tank size now.

I have one in my tank and I absolutely love her. Model citizen. Swims end to end eats everything but pellets.


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[davehead86]

For what it's worth my coral beauty doesn't nip at anything if feed frequently. Once I cut back on feelings to reduce algae problems and then all my corals started showing signs of being nipped. My gsp wasn't open for a week.


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[Mark9]

Don't get a damsel, terrible fish.

[Sk8r]

Damsels we get tend to be of 2 main species, the chrysipteras and the dascyllus. The chrysipteras, which includes yellowtails, Fiji blues, and azures, are generally calm and max out at under 4", fairly slim-bodied, and while they'll give short chase, it's mostly bluster until they reach the edge of their claimed territory. THink of them as more like the percula clowns---can be attitudinal, but generally, with only one in the tank, no great problem. Dascyllus are more like maroon clowns---VERY like maroon clowns. I have 2 in a 100 gallon, and the golden domino is 4.5 inches, fat, muscular, and buzzes like a rattled teacup when upset. She gets under my rockwork and fans with her tail until she rouses quite a plume of sand. [Good sand-cleaner, she.] But dascyllus hate chromis with a passion, and will do them in. Dascyllus boss everything around: she won't generally nip, and in a large enough tank, they'll absolutely ignore other species than damsels as if they weren't even there. Exception is the filefish. Ms. Domino seems to like the filefish, and makes friendly approaches, go figure.

Damsels in multiple should not be in less than 100 gallons. That's where they get most of their rep. One of the chrysipteras can live well enough in a 50 up without being much bother to anyone. And they won't nip corals.

[BigEZ77]

thanks...so all chrysipteras have the same temperment or is one type generally more peaceful than others?

[Sk8r]

Mildest, all the way to timid, are the yellowtails or blue stars---the blue star is a pomacentrus damsel, yet another species, and I have never seen a blue star aggress at anything. They're quite beautiful blue under LED light, fairly timid, can be plain grey under regular lighting. Azures are a bit snippier, then blue devils. The neoglyptidons(the so-called blue velvet) are homicidal maniacs even in a 100. But they are a very varied lot, in terms of temperament. My bet for high color if you have LED might be the blue star, and next would be the yellowtail---but only one! two damsels multiplies the territorial demands, and in a 45, that's too many damsels for the space. You get to hate me if I talk you into a fish that turns out to be a problem, but at least your corals will be safe.

[BigEZ77]

Yes, I think the pomacentrus was the peaceful one my LFS was talking about, but from what LA says, they seem to be on the smaller side and don't have that taller body shape like a yellowtail or azure. Definitely would only get one. I'll keep looking into it...since nothing else gives that nice blue of the damsels. Thx.

[thomas.torode]

~$30 Fish. $2,000+ worth of Coral.
IMO Totally not worth the risk.

[BigEZ77]

Agreed, sometimes I try to convince myself of crazy things when I want something bad enough, lol. 2nd tank will be a 100G+ FOWLR, will wait till then.

[BigEZ77]

I should mention that's 2K Canadian, so like two dollars US

[mluntz]

I have a coral beauty and I never see him nipping at any of my corals. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen though