Confused about dead rock

Adava · 06/28/2016, 07:08 PM

Hello everyone. I have been reading and reading and reading and asking questions for the past few months trying to get everything planned for my first tank. I seem to have hit a wall of conflicting information from on this site, my LFS, and people I have been buying equipment from on CL. Anyways to the point... I have about 100lbs of Dead Rock from a neighbors tank. I scrubbed it pretty good to get as much dead material off as possible but obviously a lot is dead inside the rock. I planned on soaking and rinsing all of it to remove more. after it has been rinsed, am I able to cure it in my tank or will that cause me headaches? Do I NEED to cure it? or can I just clean as much as I can and put it in the tank to start cycling? I understand that everyone has their own methods but what are some of the pros and cons of the different practices?

Bl4ckDr4g0n · 06/28/2016, 07:14 PM

You have to cure it. I think it is pretty much standard practice to acid wash any rock from a previously established tank to avoid inheriting whatever was the cause for them to tear their tank down to begin with. I think its pretty well understood people either upgrade, and reuse their rock that is full of life, or they abandon the hobby because they cannot overcome the issues they are having.

CStrickland · 06/28/2016, 07:18 PM

Curing and cycling are not so different. Like, curing is growing the bacteria to break down the organics, and cycling is using some organics to grow the bacteria. The headache is just that it can be smelly, and messy. If it's hard to get around in your tank to siphon out chunks then curing in a bin might be easier because you can just move the rocks into fresh water instead. But it might not be, maybe your rocks won't be that gross inside, or you can have a window open nearby to let the stank out. Personally, it think people overdo it sometimes keeping rocks in bins for months and months. It seems more trouble than it's worth.

Also - it's muuuch easier to arrange the rocks if you aren't trying to keep them under water. So that's a benefit of curing in the tank. You can take a few days and get everything just how you want it and then get the system rolling without having to transfer and upset everything down the road.

Not to further confuse things, but if you're looking at options a muriatic acid bath isn't as complicated or scary as it sounds and it's a big shortcut. You can just burn all that crud off and start cycling in the tank immediately. It will also remove phosphate that may have bound to the rocks in your friends tank, so they don't leach out later and grow algae. It will also make sure any aiptasia etc is dead.

I think I read someplace that people rent powerwashers from homedepot and use them to blast out dead stuff. That might be worth looking into if you want to speed the cure up without using acid. It won't help the phosphates much though

Adava · 06/28/2016, 07:26 PM

Thank you guys for your quick replies... I am starting to come around to the Idea of a muriatic acid bath to help remove the "Junk". Going that route, I would just need to rinse the rock really well after the acid bath I assume then It would be ready to be placed in the tank for the cure/cycle? I'm I understanding that correctly?

Also since we are on the topic, I was planning on dosing with ammonia for the cycle. would I be able to start that when I begin curing? Also it was recomended to me to dose with Dr Tim's One and only bacteria. Anyone have any experience with that?

cougareyes · 06/28/2016, 07:34 PM

I've used dead live rock previously used from my own tanks, a friend's tank, and a lfs. I've never did the acid wash or other extreme measures as others have taken, and never had any negative adverse effects from no doing it. Maybe those that do use those measures have had negative effects by not doing so.
This is what I do, and have done, I do it completely in my tank. I clean the rocks with picks and brushes and rinse thoroughly with ro water. Place them in my tank and fill with saltwater. After about 24 hrs I test for ammonia, I test for ammonia once a day and if ammonia rises more than 1ppm, I do a water change to bring it down. I used to let it to 2ppm but then my cycle would take longer. You will want to add a bacteria source, I've always added media from another tank, some people have luck with commercial brands. I use seachem stability just as security, I don't know if it works or not. I've usually got a tank cycled through in about a week this way.

GfordQC · 06/28/2016, 07:41 PM

Here is the link on live rock from the "New to the Hobby" section

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=165224

CStrickland · 06/28/2016, 09:20 PM

You can add a bunch of baking soda to neutralize the acid before you rinse it so you aren't like pouring acid on the driveway or whatever. This thread has some good instructions and pics http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1914426

Then you can use the ammonia or feed shrimp or flakes, any normal "cycle the tank" procedure.

Another good thing about the acid is it opens up some of the tiny tiny pores in the rock that can get clogged up with detritus and dead bacteria and stifle the bacteria in them.

Chibils · 06/29/2016, 05:24 AM

If you feel comfortable with the muriatic acid wash, I'd recommend it. It really is the best way IMO. Dissolves most of the crap no trouble and leaves you with sparkly white rock. Instead of letting the stuff decay off the rocks you just dissolve the whole top layer.

But it has some danger to it, so be extremely careful and know the process before attempting it.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

Fish Everywhere · 06/29/2016, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adava

Hello everyone. I have been reading and reading and reading and asking questions for the past few months trying to get everything planned for my first tank. I seem to have hit a wall of conflicting information from on this site, my LFS, and people I have been buying equipment from on CL. Anyways to the point... I have about 100lbs of Dead Rock from a neighbors tank. I scrubbed it pretty good to get as much dead material off as possible but obviously a lot is dead inside the rock. I planned on soaking and rinsing all of it to remove more. after it has been rinsed, am I able to cure it in my tank or will that cause me headaches? Do I NEED to cure it? or can I just clean as much as I can and put it in the tank to start cycling? I understand that everyone has their own methods but what are some of the pros and cons of the different practices?

gone fishin · 06/29/2016, 08:03 AM

All good advice listed above. When I moved here to Wisconsin I broke my tank down prior to the move. My rock sat for about 4-5 months in dry totes until I was ready to set the tank back up. I laid the rock out on the deck, hosed it down gave it a scrub and hosed it off again. I then proceeded to do the aquascaping and filling of the tank. I had the usual algae phases of a new tank. Good luck

ColoReefer970 · 06/29/2016, 08:28 AM

Or just use vinegar if the acid is scary

Adava · 06/29/2016, 09:43 PM

Thanks so much to everyone for your input. I think I will go for the acid bath, only because I am kind of a control freak haha. Much of me wants to just aquascape as is, however being new to the hobby, starting from a more sterile point makes me a little more comfortable.

And gone fishin... next time your in Appleton, let me know and I will buy you a drink and pick your brain.

gone fishin · 06/30/2016, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adava

And gone fishin... next time your in Appleton, let me know and I will buy you a drink and pick your brain.

Will do, BTW There is a decent frag swap every year around labor day in Fredonia, if your ready.

Adava · 06/30/2016, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gone fishin

Will do, BTW There is a decent frag swap every year around labor day in Fredonia, if your ready.

Cool, I will have to keep an eye out for it. Thanks again.

06/28/2016, 07:08 PM	#1
Adava Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: NE Wisconsin Posts: 8	Confused about dead rock Hello everyone. I have been reading and reading and reading and asking questions for the past few months trying to get everything planned for my first tank. I seem to have hit a wall of conflicting information from on this site, my LFS, and people I have been buying equipment from on CL. Anyways to the point... I have about 100lbs of Dead Rock from a neighbors tank. I scrubbed it pretty good to get as much dead material off as possible but obviously a lot is dead inside the rock. I planned on soaking and rinsing all of it to remove more. after it has been rinsed, am I able to cure it in my tank or will that cause me headaches? Do I NEED to cure it? or can I just clean as much as I can and put it in the tank to start cycling? I understand that everyone has their own methods but what are some of the pros and cons of the different practices?

06/28/2016, 07:14 PM	#2
Bl4ckDr4g0n Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Colorado Posts: 124	You have to cure it. I think it is pretty much standard practice to acid wash any rock from a previously established tank to avoid inheriting whatever was the cause for them to tear their tank down to begin with. I think its pretty well understood people either upgrade, and reuse their rock that is full of life, or they abandon the hobby because they cannot overcome the issues they are having. __________________ Aqueon 65 Reef Ready, 29 Gallon Sump 1 VorTech MP40W, 2 VorTech MP10Ws, Vertex Omega 130 Radeon xr30 pro gen 3 Current Tank Info: 65 Gallon

06/28/2016, 07:18 PM	#3
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	Curing and cycling are not so different. Like, curing is growing the bacteria to break down the organics, and cycling is using some organics to grow the bacteria. The headache is just that it can be smelly, and messy. If it's hard to get around in your tank to siphon out chunks then curing in a bin might be easier because you can just move the rocks into fresh water instead. But it might not be, maybe your rocks won't be that gross inside, or you can have a window open nearby to let the stank out. Personally, it think people overdo it sometimes keeping rocks in bins for months and months. It seems more trouble than it's worth. Also - it's muuuch easier to arrange the rocks if you aren't trying to keep them under water. So that's a benefit of curing in the tank. You can take a few days and get everything just how you want it and then get the system rolling without having to transfer and upset everything down the road. Not to further confuse things, but if you're looking at options a muriatic acid bath isn't as complicated or scary as it sounds and it's a big shortcut. You can just burn all that crud off and start cycling in the tank immediately. It will also remove phosphate that may have bound to the rocks in your friends tank, so they don't leach out later and grow algae. It will also make sure any aiptasia etc is dead. I think I read someplace that people rent powerwashers from homedepot and use them to blast out dead stuff. That might be worth looking into if you want to speed the cure up without using acid. It won't help the phosphates much though __________________ If you're havin tank problems I feel bad for you, son. I got 99 problems but a fish ain't one Current Tank Info: 3/2016 upgrade to 120g. Chalk bass, melanurus, firefish, starry blenny, canary blenny, lyretail anthias, engineer gobys, kole tang. Softies / LPS / NPS. <3 noob4life <3

06/28/2016, 09:20 PM	#7
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	You can add a bunch of baking soda to neutralize the acid before you rinse it so you aren't like pouring acid on the driveway or whatever. This thread has some good instructions and pics http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1914426 Then you can use the ammonia or feed shrimp or flakes, any normal "cycle the tank" procedure. Another good thing about the acid is it opens up some of the tiny tiny pores in the rock that can get clogged up with detritus and dead bacteria and stifle the bacteria in them. __________________ If you're havin tank problems I feel bad for you, son. I got 99 problems but a fish ain't one Current Tank Info: 3/2016 upgrade to 120g. Chalk bass, melanurus, firefish, starry blenny, canary blenny, lyretail anthias, engineer gobys, kole tang. Softies / LPS / NPS. <3 noob4life <3

06/29/2016, 05:24 AM	#8
Chibils halide loyalist Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sugar Hill, GA Posts: 2,213	If you feel comfortable with the muriatic acid wash, I'd recommend it. It really is the best way IMO. Dissolves most of the crap no trouble and leaves you with sparkly white rock. Instead of letting the stuff decay off the rocks you just dissolve the whole top layer. But it has some danger to it, so be extremely careful and know the process before attempting it. Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk __________________ always learning Current Tank Info: 75G new world cichlid, 25G reef in planning

06/28/2016, 07:26 PM	#4
Adava Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: NE Wisconsin Posts: 8	Thank you guys for your quick replies... I am starting to come around to the Idea of a muriatic acid bath to help remove the "Junk". Going that route, I would just need to rinse the rock really well after the acid bath I assume then It would be ready to be placed in the tank for the cure/cycle? I'm I understanding that correctly? Also since we are on the topic, I was planning on dosing with ammonia for the cycle. would I be able to start that when I begin curing? Also it was recomended to me to dose with Dr Tim's One and only bacteria. Anyone have any experience with that?

06/28/2016, 07:34 PM	#5
cougareyes Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 713	I've used dead live rock previously used from my own tanks, a friend's tank, and a lfs. I've never did the acid wash or other extreme measures as others have taken, and never had any negative adverse effects from no doing it. Maybe those that do use those measures have had negative effects by not doing so. This is what I do, and have done, I do it completely in my tank. I clean the rocks with picks and brushes and rinse thoroughly with ro water. Place them in my tank and fill with saltwater. After about 24 hrs I test for ammonia, I test for ammonia once a day and if ammonia rises more than 1ppm, I do a water change to bring it down. I used to let it to 2ppm but then my cycle would take longer. You will want to add a bacteria source, I've always added media from another tank, some people have luck with commercial brands. I use seachem stability just as security, I don't know if it works or not. I've usually got a tank cycled through in about a week this way.

06/28/2016, 07:41 PM	#6
GfordQC Registered Member Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 79	Here is the link on live rock from the "New to the Hobby" section http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=165224

06/29/2016, 08:03 AM	#10
gone fishin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wyocena Wi Posts: 6,936	All good advice listed above. When I moved here to Wisconsin I broke my tank down prior to the move. My rock sat for about 4-5 months in dry totes until I was ready to set the tank back up. I laid the rock out on the deck, hosed it down gave it a scrub and hosed it off again. I then proceeded to do the aquascaping and filling of the tank. I had the usual algae phases of a new tank. Good luck __________________ Tony Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT

06/29/2016, 08:28 AM	#11
ColoReefer970 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Earth Posts: 88	Or just use vinegar if the acid is scary

06/29/2016, 09:43 PM	#12
Adava Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: NE Wisconsin Posts: 8	Thanks so much to everyone for your input. I think I will go for the acid bath, only because I am kind of a control freak haha. Much of me wants to just aquascape as is, however being new to the hobby, starting from a more sterile point makes me a little more comfortable. And gone fishin... next time your in Appleton, let me know and I will buy you a drink and pick your brain.