Need help with Return Pump

[ksgriff88]

Hey guys I need some help with my return pump. I just set up my first tank and hard plumbed (1" PVC pipe) everything in. The tank is 55 gallon and leads to a 20-25 gallon sump/refugium.

I have an overflow box on the tank with 2 u-tubes and 2 drains (1 inch bulkheads) on it. I have 2 1300 GPH circulation pumps/wave makers on the inside of the tank.

I am trying however to find a good return pump as the one I have is a Mag Drive 18 which I know is way over kill for the system (I had this laying around from previous projects). I have it turned way down but it is still super loud and vibrating a lot. What would be a good size to replace this one with and what are some tips for quieting the return pump down as well as quieting the drain pipes down (will be trying a Hofer Gurgle Buster tomorrow)?

Thanks everybody!

[Joeb1983]

I had a RIO 3100 on my 60 cube with a gate valve and it worked like a champ.

They are priced pretty well and I have numerous sized RIO's running returns, reactors and UV's and personally never had an issue with noise, heat or failure on numerous tanks.

I have one thats been running 24/7 for 3 years and I have not ever cleaned it... lol!

My 60 only had one 1" overflow bulkhead with a 1.5" Durso standpipe. Even with head loss I had to dial it back a tad with the valve to stop the flushing and gurgling effect.

Here is a good read:

http://www.dursostandpipes.com/frequ...go-up-and-down

[Davileet]

My favorite sump pumps for smaller setups are QuietOne pumps. I have had great success with their pumps and they are pretty quiet.

[Joeb1983]

Originally Posted by Davileet

My favorite sump pumps for smaller setups are QuietOne pumps. I have had great success with their pumps and they are pretty quiet.

Forgot about these as well. Also, a great choice for the $. I had one on a reactor years ago and never had an issue. Also, as Davileet stated, pretty quiet to boot.

[ksgriff88]

Originally Posted by Davileet

My favorite sump pumps for smaller setups are QuietOne pumps. I have had great success with their pumps and they are pretty quiet.

These seem pretty good. What size would you recommend? I have about 2 feet of horizontal pipe and about 4.5 feet of vertical pipe.

[CStrickland]

I had an eheim compact+ on my 55. They're about $100 unless you find something on sale or used. I think it was over 500 gph at 4'. It's a really solid and easy to clean pump. It doesn't mind running dry if there's a flood, so I placed it high in my sump as a precaution against a utube failure. If the sump level got too low because the tank was draining onto the floor, the pump just sucked air until I could fix the utube. I miss it a lot I hate the iwaki on my big tank. I can't wait to upgrade and when I do it will be to another eheim.

[SFish]

Originally Posted by ksgriff88

These seem pretty good. What size would you recommend? I have about 2 feet of horizontal pipe and about 4.5 feet of vertical pipe.

How many 90s?
How many 45s?

After accounting for loss if you are just running the return I would go 375gph. Also I would base the return PVC size on the pump out put size to reduce friction. For example if the return pump has a 1" output then I would go the next size up in PVC.

[SFish]

Originally Posted by CStrickland

I had an eheim compact+ on my 55. They're about $100 unless you find something on sale or used. I think it was over 500 gph at 4'. It's a really solid and easy to clean pump. It doesn't mind running dry if there's a flood, so I placed it high in my sump as a precaution against a utube failure. If the sump level got too low because the tank was draining onto the floor, the pump just sucked air until I could fix the utube. I miss it a lot I hate the iwaki on my big tank. I can't wait to upgrade and when I do it will be to another eheim.

+1 on eheim

[SFish]

syncra Is also very good

[billdogg]

If you haven't already, try isolating the Mag18 by using ~1' of vinyl tubing to connect it to the PVC, and set it on something in the sump to get it off the bottom. I use a silicone hot pad for this.

Failing that, any of the above are good choices.

[kmbyrnes]

Originally Posted by billdogg

If you haven't already, try isolating the Mag18 by using ~1' of vinyl tubing to connect it to the PVC, and set it on something in the sump to get it off the bottom. I use a silicone hot pad for this.

Failing that, any of the above are good choices.

Mousepads also work well.

[ksgriff88]

Originally Posted by SFish

How many 90s?
How many 45s?

After accounting for loss if you are just running the return I would go 375gph. Also I would base the return PVC size on the pump out put size to reduce friction. For example if the return pump has a 1" output then I would go the next size up in PVC.

There are 6 total 90s including the final one into the tank. I don't have any 45s on there.

Also the pump had a 3/4" output and I'm using 1" PVC.

[hkgar]

Here is a link to a head loss calculator for various pumps. You want at least 10 times water volume for flow. I have used the Mag line and Quiet One.

http://reefcentral.com/index.php/head-loss-calculator

[GimpyFin]

Like some of the others have mentioned, Eheim pumps are pretty good. It sounds like you have an overflow box sized for a fairly large tank if it has two u-tubes and two drains. The potential downfall to this is you will likely need to run a lot of flow through it. If the flow isn't high enough, air bubbles will pocket over time at the top of the u-tube and you risk losing siphon. It also makes the sump and drain fairly loud. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it as it can be an issue with that type of overflow.

[Capsle]

I just finished testing my setup. 75 gallon display with 35g sump. I have 2 1" bulkheads for overflow with 1 1" return. I'm running a syncra silent 5.0 (1321 gph). I made a top skimmer out out 1" pvc and have the pump dialed down all the way. Flow is perfect. I will probably have to turn it up a bit once I hard plumb everything in pvc.




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[SFish]

Originally Posted by ksgriff88

There are 6 total 90s including the final one into the tank. I don't have any 45s on there.

Also the pump had a 3/4" output and I'm using 1" PVC.

That's a lot of 90's I would see if you can take some out or replace some with 45's.

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by SFish

That's a lot of 90's I would see if you can take some out or replace some with 45's.

Actually if you swap out the 90's for twice as many 45's you lose flow, at least according to the head loss calculator on the home page. I know it is counter intuitive, but that's what the calculation shows

[SFish]

Originally Posted by hkgar

Actually if you swap out the 90's for twice as many 45's you lose flow, at least according to the head loss calculator on the home page. I know it is counter intuitive, but that's what the calculation shows

You swap one 90 for one 45. There is no point in putting in two 45s to replace one 90. If you are able to cut down on the use of 90s it will help your flow.

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by SFish

You swap one 90 for one 45. There is no point in putting in two 45s to replace one 90. If you are able to cut down on the use of 90s it will help your flow.

? If you need to make a 90 degree turn, you just can't do it with one 45.

[Marshall O]

Originally Posted by hkgar

? If you need to make a 90 degree turn, you just can't do it with one 45.

You can depending on the situation. Instead of running a pipe vertically down and then using a 90 to turn horizontal like this _|, you could use a 45 and run the piping like this /. If that made sense.

For your application, I would personally recommend a quiet one as well. I run the 1200 on my 75 gallon. The 2200 would also work, with higher flow rates obviously.

For your overflow, as mentioned you will likely not have enough flow for both U- tubes. I recommend using one as the main and one as the backup. You should just be able to use either 3/4" or 1" PVC to put in the overflow at a higher level than the "main" overflow. I ran this way on my 55 gallon very successfully. It will also be a lot more quiet using this method, having one full pipe vs. two partially full. And it will reduce or eliminate the chance of losing siphon.

Good luck!

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[scooter31707]

Check out the Simplicity Return pumps. Hearing good things, especially being adjustable. Well priced.

[SFish]

Originally Posted by Marshall O

You can depending on the situation. Instead of running a pipe vertically down and then using a 90 to turn horizontal like this _|, you could use a 45 and run the piping like this /. If that made sense.

My point exactly

For example this is something I did on my system. I used two 45s instead of two 90s.

[SFish]

If we use the HD 100 pump in the calculator and put 4' vertical height with 1"D PVC with 2 90's we get a flow of 1756gph vs 1772gph with 2 45's so we gained 16gph. Do that a few times and it will add up. Another option would be long 90's. You can see I got to the same place with the PVC without using 90's or using 4 45's.

[ksgriff88]

Very interesting. Using a bunch of the suggestions I found a way to quiet it down.

First I removed 2 90s. By doing this I also replaced some of the PVC on the return to flexible tubing and put a silicon heating pad down. I still have the Mag 18 hooked up and have it turned down again and it is super quiet.

As for the overflow box I took the suggestion of using one stand pipe as an emergency and set it up higher in the overflow (so it only is used if the water in the HOB overflow raises). I built a Hofer Gurgle Buster for the other drain and it completely silenced the drains. All I hear now is the sound of gently flowing water over the baffle of the overflow box.

[ksgriff88]

Also in terms of the 90s vs 45s I may be able to remove 1 90 but the rest have to stay as the pipe goes through a hole drilled level in a partition wall (tank on one side, sump/fuge on the other).