Large Tank Heaters! Tube or Inline

JaySchulz · 12/13/2016, 05:14 PM

Help me out here. My biggest tank was a 105 gallon rimless and I used one Jager. I have zero experience with large tanks so this build has been over a year of planning and buying equipment slowly but surely. Moving into my new house in March so I'm starting to get extremely excited. I'll start a build tread soon.

I was originally going to heat the tank with three 800 watt finnex titanium heaters hooked up to a Ranco. Now I'm wondering if I should heat it with an Elecro 1.5kw titanium inline heater (our another comparable brand). Unfortunately I don't find a lot of info out there of large tank owners using them. Can anybody shine some light on there experience with larger inline heaters?

Tank and Other Relevant Specs
500 gallon tank
69"L x 73"W x 24"T
All equipment will be under stand
Tank turnover will be roughly 5x or 2,500 gph
Ambient temperature outside of tank in living room will be roughly 72 degrees
Target water temp will be 78 degrees
Trying to avoid the need for a chiller.
Link to inline heater
http://www.calponds.com/Pond-Heaters...um-p-7645.html

Thanks ahead of time

Vinny Kreyling · 12/13/2016, 05:40 PM

While I don't have the experience you requested the heater pictured is made for exterior use and I think is overkill. You are looking @ a 6 degree temp difference. Easily made up with less, I have 250 & run a 300W Ebo-Jager.

JaySchulz · 12/13/2016, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny Kreyling

While I don't have the experience you requested the heater pictured is made for exterior use and I think is overkill. You are looking @ a 6 degree temp difference. Easily made up with less, I have 250 & run a 300W Ebo-Jager.

Yes I believe it's used for exterior ponds, aquariums, and even pools. When i first started planning this build I saw that Steve Weist used it on his legendary tank that he built. I know that it's slightly overkill as it's good for 1,000 gallons but Im thinking that will make it a lot more efficient and also keep the tank at a more stable and consistent temp. I also thought that it being inline and every gallon of water going through it would be benifial to consistent temps instead of water just passively passing past tube heaters.

JaySchulz · 12/13/2016, 06:16 PM

I forgot to mention that there is quite a significant amount of tube heater failures that have wiped out many tanks. Are the inline heaters a much safer and reliable way to heat the tank. If that's the case I'll for sure be going this route.

jda · 12/13/2016, 08:53 PM

I strongly suggest that you consider multiple heaters. I have a larger system and I keep a pair of 300W in the tank and four more in the sump. This way, if I ever lose the return pump, the heaters in the tank and Tunze pumps will keep the display going for days and days if we are out of town.

Also, don't underestimate the ability for a large titanium heater to roast a tank. I thought that I would get all smart once and get 2000W titanium- controller stuck on and tank got to 95 in like 2 hours. I like the 6x 300W better since if one sticks on (even with the controller), then it cannot do any real damage. A Jagr will also have a second thermostat for redundancy.

IMO, Ranco and multiple 300W Ebo Jagrs are the way to go. I just buy a 6 pack online and keep a few extra around at all times.

jda · 12/13/2016, 08:55 PM

I do keep the tops of the heaters out of the water.

Vinny Kreyling · 12/14/2016, 08:57 AM

I often wondered about efficiency since I have used (&still have) a 500W titanium heater.
As someone once said the time difference in heating between the 2 is offset by the amount of current used. True?, but it makes sense to me.

tkeracer619 · 12/14/2016, 02:12 PM

In terms of efficiency they are all going to be the same.

500w is 500w and since it is submerged 100% of that heat goes into the water.

Personally, on my 600gal system I will be going with a ranco w/2 250w eheim heaters in the sump and a ranco w/2 250w eheim heaters in the display. This will avoid any temperature changes from sump to tank, stuck heaters nuking the tank, and redundant heating systems that should keep the display in the rec room and the frag system in the basement at a nice temp. I do have a chiller but it's only 1/4hp and will only be used incase the cooler in the house goes out mid summer to keep the tank from running away.

Given the cost of systems this size spend a little extra and try to be as redundant as you can.

EnderG60 · 12/14/2016, 02:15 PM

I've never seen an inline heater larger than 500w. Drop in ones will work exactly the same if in a higher flow area.

I have a 450g system with everything but the display in an unfinished unconditioned basement. I was using two 1000w Ti heaters and it was barely keeping up in winter. I now use an instant water heater, circulation pump and pex coil to use gas to heat the tank and keep the Ti heaters as a emergency backup. I have a build thread on here somewhere.

My power bill dropped $60-$110 a month in winter and my gas bill...well I didnt even notice an increase.

If you have everything under the tank and in a conditioned room like that I would just get two 1000w heaters, set your winter time tank temp to 76 and call it a day.

tkeracer619 · 12/14/2016, 02:23 PM

^^ After I get my system all set up I may also go the route Ender has gone for the primary heat but want the system up and running before I go into an unknown to me territory.

m0nkie · 12/14/2016, 02:24 PM

I have a 560gal with 4 300w Jager controlled by Ranco. I dont trust any heater or controller. I will sell these 300w jager every 2 years and buy new ones.

vashawn · 12/14/2016, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m0nkie

I have a 560gal with 4 300w Jager controlled by Ranco. I dont trust any heater or controller. I will sell these 300w jager every 2 years and buy new ones.

This! +1
i do this 2 on my 300gal.

ostrow · 12/14/2016, 02:47 PM

Are you folks using Rancos because you don't have controllers? Most of us large tank folk have Apex or similar....I have my heaters controlled via my Apex.

jason2459 · 12/14/2016, 03:03 PM

I use my rancos in conjunction with my apex. Redundancies and failsafes. I have many.

slief · 12/14/2016, 03:22 PM

What are your plans for pumps and lighting? You may not even need a heater. I have a 500 gallon display with 700 gallon overall volume and I don't need heaters. I run LED lighting and very efficient pumps to transfer virtually no heat. I do live in Southern California but my house is routinely 70° during the winter months & my tank never drops below 74 which is just fine for a reef tank.

tkeracer619 · 12/14/2016, 05:40 PM

I use Rancos because I trust them to not stick on more than any hobby grade controller. I know they will fail someday and while they have a great history of failing in the off position I still use a heater with a thermostat which is set above my ranco but below a temp that causes problems. I also have a controller that will send me texts if something goes out of range.

m0nkie · 12/14/2016, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ostrow

Are you folks using Rancos because you don't have controllers? Most of us large tank folk have Apex or similar....I have my heaters controlled via my Apex.

Both. Ranco is better at controlling. Apex is better at alarming

Breadman03 · 12/14/2016, 06:10 PM

I wouldn't do a single heater. It would be best to break up into two or more heaters that have a little more than you need when combined. That way, should one fail off or on, your temperature will begin to drift slowly. You certainly don't want to get an email alert and have stew before you can fix it.

jda · 12/14/2016, 07:26 PM

APEX is a toy compared to the reliability and longevity of a Ranco. 10+ years easy with most people over 15-20. The probes are better too. I am using a Ranco with the probe from 1992 - still going strong. You can also do 220v with a Ranco which appeals to those with huge chillers and heaters when you start to get 400+ gallons.

I also have a few 3 digit Medusa, which are also awesome, but not made any more, so I don't discuss them much.

wishntoboutside · 12/14/2016, 10:03 PM

Those heater are really nice and dependable. They are more on a commercial end of thing so many here are not familiar with these. they do work. I have used these in the passed on a couple projects bullet proof. talk to the guys at Aqualogicinc in San Diego about these they will give you some great info.

I do recall not to many years ago apex having a bad batch of temperature probe. I lost many corals over it. plan back up and such as you design your system.

ostrow · 12/15/2016, 09:06 AM

Interesting. I used Ranco for 5 yrs or so before I got my Apex. I had no issues with it. But I have now run an Apex for 5+ years. Temp probe has had zero issues, ever. Calibrated once and it is still perfect, verified by two different floating thermometers. If there were problems it was long ago.

slief · 12/15/2016, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ostrow

Interesting. I used Ranco for 5 yrs or so before I got my Apex. I had no issues with it. But I have now run an Apex for 5+ years. Temp probe has had zero issues, ever. Calibrated once and it is still perfect, verified by two different floating thermometers. If there were problems it was long ago.

Me too. Been using the same Apex since it was first released in 2009 and have never had an issue with the temp probe nor do I know anybody that has. In that time, I have had a couple of the standard Ranco controllers fail on chillers. Either way, I would not run a heater without controller redundancy. A single controller even if it were a Ranco would not leave me feeling comfortable. I always install heaters with a combination of aquarium controller and a heater controller so there is a fail safe.

Mrs. Music · 12/15/2016, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slief

What are your plans for pumps and lighting? You may not even need a heater. I have a 500 gallon display with 700 gallon overall volume and I don't need heaters. I run LED lighting and very efficient pumps to transfer virtually no heat. I do live in Southern California but my house is routinely 70° during the winter months & my tank never drops below 74 which is just fine for a reef tank.

I know temp consistency is more important that the perfect number. My tank temp does not really vary between night and day. But it has dropped to 76.8 degrees this winter. I forgot a heater went bad this summer, and I did not replace it. So you are saying this is fine?

wishntoboutside · 12/15/2016, 11:41 AM

Anything at 76 or below will impact coral growth.

jda · 12/15/2016, 12:08 PM

It is interesting how a different climate can make a huge difference. Even in the summer months here in Colorado, tank heating is BY FAR my biggest expense. The very low humidity and with temps getting into the 50s at night even on 100 degree days, the evaporation and cool nights just suck temp right out of a tank.

I run submersible Laguna/Askoll/Mag pumps not only because of reliability, but for the extra warmth. When the halides are on, they take over the heating and spare the heaters a bit, but at no extra cost.

You can cool a tank to almost any desired temp with just fans and evaporation with humidity in the teens during the day in most of the hot months.

Perhaps when talking about heating, location and climate should be the first question asked.

12/13/2016, 05:14 PM	#1
JaySchulz Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: The Woodlands TX Posts: 440	Large Tank Heaters! Tube or Inline Help me out here. My biggest tank was a 105 gallon rimless and I used one Jager. I have zero experience with large tanks so this build has been over a year of planning and buying equipment slowly but surely. Moving into my new house in March so I'm starting to get extremely excited. I'll start a build tread soon. I was originally going to heat the tank with three 800 watt finnex titanium heaters hooked up to a Ranco. Now I'm wondering if I should heat it with an Elecro 1.5kw titanium inline heater (our another comparable brand). Unfortunately I don't find a lot of info out there of large tank owners using them. Can anybody shine some light on there experience with larger inline heaters? Tank and Other Relevant Specs 500 gallon tank 69"L x 73"W x 24"T All equipment will be under stand Tank turnover will be roughly 5x or 2,500 gph Ambient temperature outside of tank in living room will be roughly 72 degrees Target water temp will be 78 degrees Trying to avoid the need for a chiller. Link to inline heater http://www.calponds.com/Pond-Heaters...um-p-7645.html Thanks ahead of time

12/13/2016, 05:40 PM	#2
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	While I don't have the experience you requested the heater pictured is made for exterior use and I think is overkill. You are looking @ a 6 degree temp difference. Easily made up with less, I have 250 & run a 300W Ebo-Jager. __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

12/14/2016, 08:57 AM	#7
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	I often wondered about efficiency since I have used (&still have) a 500W titanium heater. As someone once said the time difference in heating between the 2 is offset by the amount of current used. True?, but it makes sense to me. __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

12/14/2016, 02:12 PM	#8
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	In terms of efficiency they are all going to be the same. 500w is 500w and since it is submerged 100% of that heat goes into the water. Personally, on my 600gal system I will be going with a ranco w/2 250w eheim heaters in the sump and a ranco w/2 250w eheim heaters in the display. This will avoid any temperature changes from sump to tank, stuck heaters nuking the tank, and redundant heating systems that should keep the display in the rec room and the frag system in the basement at a nice temp. I do have a chiller but it's only 1/4hp and will only be used incase the cooler in the house goes out mid summer to keep the tank from running away. Given the cost of systems this size spend a little extra and try to be as redundant as you can. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

12/14/2016, 02:23 PM	#10
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	^^ After I get my system all set up I may also go the route Ender has gone for the primary heat but want the system up and running before I go into an unknown to me territory. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

12/13/2016, 06:16 PM	#4
JaySchulz Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: The Woodlands TX Posts: 440	I forgot to mention that there is quite a significant amount of tube heater failures that have wiped out many tanks. Are the inline heaters a much safer and reliable way to heat the tank. If that's the case I'll for sure be going this route.

12/13/2016, 08:53 PM	#5
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	I strongly suggest that you consider multiple heaters. I have a larger system and I keep a pair of 300W in the tank and four more in the sump. This way, if I ever lose the return pump, the heaters in the tank and Tunze pumps will keep the display going for days and days if we are out of town. Also, don't underestimate the ability for a large titanium heater to roast a tank. I thought that I would get all smart once and get 2000W titanium- controller stuck on and tank got to 95 in like 2 hours. I like the 6x 300W better since if one sticks on (even with the controller), then it cannot do any real damage. A Jagr will also have a second thermostat for redundancy. IMO, Ranco and multiple 300W Ebo Jagrs are the way to go. I just buy a 6 pack online and keep a few extra around at all times.

12/13/2016, 08:55 PM	#6
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	I do keep the tops of the heaters out of the water.

12/14/2016, 02:15 PM	#9
EnderG60 Plumbing Engineer Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 3,260	I've never seen an inline heater larger than 500w. Drop in ones will work exactly the same if in a higher flow area. I have a 450g system with everything but the display in an unfinished unconditioned basement. I was using two 1000w Ti heaters and it was barely keeping up in winter. I now use an instant water heater, circulation pump and pex coil to use gas to heat the tank and keep the Ti heaters as a emergency backup. I have a build thread on here somewhere. My power bill dropped $60-$110 a month in winter and my gas bill...well I didnt even notice an increase. If you have everything under the tank and in a conditioned room like that I would just get two 1000w heaters, set your winter time tank temp to 76 and call it a day.

12/14/2016, 02:24 PM	#11
m0nkie Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: LA Posts: 6,264	I have a 560gal with 4 300w Jager controlled by Ranco. I dont trust any heater or controller. I will sell these 300w jager every 2 years and buy new ones. __________________ 560gal in the making

12/14/2016, 02:47 PM	#13
ostrow It's Dr. Goodluck Himself Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oak Park, IL Posts: 11,654	Are you folks using Rancos because you don't have controllers? Most of us large tank folk have Apex or similar....I have my heaters controlled via my Apex. __________________ It's the return of Dr. Goodluck Himself. fml! Current Tank Info: 156G "brick", 150 sump and 75 fuge replaces Fire, Destruction, Sad :(

12/14/2016, 03:03 PM	#14
jason2459 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 9,671	I use my rancos in conjunction with my apex. Redundancies and failsafes. I have many. __________________ rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. \| 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank

12/14/2016, 03:22 PM	#15
slief RC Sponsor Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 14,173	What are your plans for pumps and lighting? You may not even need a heater. I have a 500 gallon display with 700 gallon overall volume and I don't need heaters. I run LED lighting and very efficient pumps to transfer virtually no heat. I do live in Southern California but my house is routinely 70° during the winter months & my tank never drops below 74 which is just fine for a reef tank. __________________ Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745 Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476

12/14/2016, 05:40 PM	#16
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	I use Rancos because I trust them to not stick on more than any hobby grade controller. I know they will fail someday and while they have a great history of failing in the off position I still use a heater with a thermostat which is set above my ranco but below a temp that causes problems. I also have a controller that will send me texts if something goes out of range. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

12/14/2016, 06:10 PM	#18
Breadman03 New Old School Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Luzerne County, PA Posts: 3,293	I wouldn't do a single heater. It would be best to break up into two or more heaters that have a little more than you need when combined. That way, should one fail off or on, your temperature will begin to drift slowly. You certainly don't want to get an email alert and have stew before you can fix it.

12/14/2016, 07:26 PM	#19
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	APEX is a toy compared to the reliability and longevity of a Ranco. 10+ years easy with most people over 15-20. The probes are better too. I am using a Ranco with the probe from 1992 - still going strong. You can also do 220v with a Ranco which appeals to those with huge chillers and heaters when you start to get 400+ gallons. I also have a few 3 digit Medusa, which are also awesome, but not made any more, so I don't discuss them much.

12/14/2016, 10:03 PM	#20
wishntoboutside professional snow flake Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Riverside, Cali Posts: 5,962	Those heater are really nice and dependable. They are more on a commercial end of thing so many here are not familiar with these. they do work. I have used these in the passed on a couple projects bullet proof. talk to the guys at Aqualogicinc in San Diego about these they will give you some great info. I do recall not to many years ago apex having a bad batch of temperature probe. I lost many corals over it. plan back up and such as you design your system. __________________ Richard Current Tank Info: 450 gallon peninsula tank 724830 filled with a bunch of frags and trying to grow them out.

12/15/2016, 09:06 AM	#21
ostrow It's Dr. Goodluck Himself Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oak Park, IL Posts: 11,654	Interesting. I used Ranco for 5 yrs or so before I got my Apex. I had no issues with it. But I have now run an Apex for 5+ years. Temp probe has had zero issues, ever. Calibrated once and it is still perfect, verified by two different floating thermometers. If there were problems it was long ago. __________________ It's the return of Dr. Goodluck Himself. fml! Current Tank Info: 156G "brick", 150 sump and 75 fuge replaces Fire, Destruction, Sad :(

12/15/2016, 11:41 AM	#24
wishntoboutside professional snow flake Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Riverside, Cali Posts: 5,962	Anything at 76 or below will impact coral growth. __________________ Richard Current Tank Info: 450 gallon peninsula tank 724830 filled with a bunch of frags and trying to grow them out.

12/15/2016, 12:08 PM	#25
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	It is interesting how a different climate can make a huge difference. Even in the summer months here in Colorado, tank heating is BY FAR my biggest expense. The very low humidity and with temps getting into the 50s at night even on 100 degree days, the evaporation and cool nights just suck temp right out of a tank. I run submersible Laguna/Askoll/Mag pumps not only because of reliability, but for the extra warmth. When the halides are on, they take over the heating and spare the heaters a bit, but at no extra cost. You can cool a tank to almost any desired temp with just fans and evaporation with humidity in the teens during the day in most of the hot months. Perhaps when talking about heating, location and climate should be the first question asked.