Herbie overflow problem

[Reef_junkie91]

Hey guys I have a really weird problem going on with my new 180g tank. I have a herbie drain that won't stay consistent once my powerheads turns on. The tank is a marineland 180 corner flow. I'm only using one of the overflows. My problem is when the vortech turns on the water level in my overflow box will go up and down. Any help would be appreciated thank you!

[ca1ore]

It's because the water level in the tank is fluctuating due to 'wave' action.

[Reef_junkie91]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

It's because the water level in the tank is fluctuating due to 'wave' action.

So there is nothing I can do? Because this fluctuation makes my herbie loud from it going up and down. The vortech is set on constant and still does it. Doesn't matter if there's a wave or not

[Potatohead]

How quickly is the fluctuation happening? Seconds or hours?

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by Reef_junkie91

So there is nothing I can do? Because this fluctuation makes my herbie loud from it going up and down. The vortech is set on constant and still does it. Doesn't matter if there's a wave or not

Well then you need to verify that the Vortech is really causing the problem. If the tank level don't fluctuate, what you are seeing is probably unrelated to the Vortech and is the open channel flushing. This happens when you try to push too much flow through the drain.

[Reef_junkie91]

Originally Posted by Potatohead

How quickly is the fluctuation happening? Seconds or hours?

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Well then you need to verify that the Vortech is really causing the problem. If the tank level don't fluctuate, what you are seeing is probably unrelated to the Vortech and is the open channel flushing. This happens when you try to push too much flow through the drain.

It happens everytime the vortech goes over 30% so I deffinitly know it's the vortech. When I have the vortech off I can set the herbie dead quiet with a trickle and it will stay consistent all day long. Even when I turn the return all the way down where there is just barley a trickle going over the overflow weir and then turn on the vortech it will still do the same thing so I don't think it's because of the water level being to high over the overflow. ill post a pic of the herbie setup... the main siphion is 6" below the emergency and the emergency is about an inch below the overflow weir

[Potatohead]

Ahh, corner overflow. I would imagine when the pump goes on it's flooding the overflow and causing more water to go down the emergency? Only way to fix it is to run the level slightly lower in the overflow, or put the pump on the same side as the overflow?

[Reef_junkie91]

Originally Posted by Potatohead

Ahh, corner overflow. I would imagine when the pump goes on it's flooding the overflow and causing more water to go down the emergency? Only way to fix it is to run the level slightly lower in the overflow, or put the pump on the same side as the overflow?

But having the water level under the emergency I would imagine the herbie would have a hard time restarting?

[Potatohead]

Originally Posted by Reef_junkie91

But having the water level under the emergency I would imagine the herbie would have a hard time restarting?

Where you set the level doesn't matter, the Herbie will restart when it restarts, the emergency height doesn't matter at that point since it should restart before it reaches the emergency height. If you turn off your return pump for a minute then restart it, watch your overflow and see when it restarts. Easy enough to test it.

Edit - That's a lot of restarts lol

[Reef_junkie91]

Originally Posted by Potatohead

Where you set the level doesn't matter, the Herbie will restart when it restarts, the emergency height doesn't matter at that point since it should restart before it reaches the emergency height. If you turn off your return pump for a minute then restart it, watch your overflow and see when it restarts. Easy enough to test it.

Edit - That's a lot of restarts lol

Ohh ok gotcha! So I can set it so the water never goes down the emergency?? And it should be ok

[ca1ore]

Vortech must be pushing a 'wave' of water otherwise it would have no effect on the herbie. How close to the surface is the pump? I have a 60 and two 40s on my 265 and hey have absolutely no effect on my drains. May also want to try moving the pump down a bit.

[Lsufan]

I know a lot of people run a trickle down the emergency of their herbie but the emergency is really supposed to be dry. So if u raise your emergency then u will be running it how it is really supposed to be run anyways. If u have water going down your emergency then it really isn't a emergency, u pretty much have a syphon & a durso. If a pipe has water going down it, it has a chance to get clogged. A emergency stays dry so if & when u need it u know it won't be restricted because it has been dry.

I would raise the emergency because like they mentioned, that's where the noice is coming from.

[Reef_junkie91]

Originally Posted by Lsufan

I know a lot of people run a trickle down the emergency of their herbie but the emergency is really supposed to be dry. So if u raise your emergency then u will be running it how it is really supposed to be run anyways. If u have water going down your emergency then it really isn't a emergency, u pretty much have a syphon & a durso. If a pipe has water going down it, it has a chance to get clogged. A emergency stays dry so if & when u need it u know it won't be restricted because it has been dry.

I would raise the emergency because like they mentioned, that's where the noice is coming from.

But the problem with not having the trickle going down is that then your return will just take more water from the return section and push it up. Atleast that's what's happening to me now. And the will make my ATO be inconsistent

[Reef_junkie91]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Vortech must be pushing a 'wave' of water otherwise it would have no effect on the herbie. How close to the surface is the pump? I have a 60 and two 40s on my 265 and hey have absolutely no effect on my drains. May also want to try moving the pump down a bit.

Iv tried moving the vortechs to almost everywhere in the tank...

[WWIII]

Are you using both the holes in the other overflow for returns? I have a 200dd with the same overflows. In one overflow I have a full siphon and return, in the other I have a full siphon and trickle (emergency). I am pushing about 1,000 gph through the tank and have 2 gyres on either end. My setup requires adjusting occasionally (maybe once a month), but is dead silent and normally the trickle is dry as the water level stays in between the full siphon and emergency in the one overflow. I used 1.5" pipe, even though the bulkheads are 1". My heights are similar to yours for the standpipes. Maybe it's the 2 siphon setup or the increased pipe diameter that takes on the surge in water without issues? Not really sure, but the gyres move a lot of water and I never have an issue with them? I also have gate valves on both siphons. Not sure the exact remedy for your setup, but maybe this will give you an idea of something to try? Hope you can get it sorted out!

[Potatohead]

Originally Posted by Reef_junkie91

But the problem with not having the trickle going down is that then your return will just take more water from the return section and push it up. Atleast that's what's happening to me now. And the will make my ATO be inconsistent

This is unfortunately a problem with a herbie. Once the tank settles in it will settle out some, but you will typically have a little bit of variation. This is why some people run a trickle in the emergency all the time, it makes the variation smaller. You will have to decide if you want less noise and more variation or less variation and more noise... Or put your powerhead in a different mode so it doesn't push so much water to one side.

[Lsufan]

I don't think u are going to be able to get it perfect because of the corner overflow box. U may have to play with the hieght of the emergency to find a happy medium to where the noise isn't to bad & it doesnt flunctuate enough to affect your ato.

Only other thing I can think of is being u have water going down your emergency anyways, is to make the emergency some type of durso standpipe so it can handle the flunctuation without getting to loud. It would be taking a chance though because U wouldn't have a emergency drain which if it's wet anyways then u don't really have a emergency already.

I would play with the hieght first to see if u could find a place where u could live with it before I tried that because it really wouldn't be the safest way to run your drains unless u add a dry emergency in the other overflow box that u aren't using.

I have c2c boxes & run beananimal drains on my tanks so I don't have this issue so i don't have any definite answer, just trying to help.

[ca1ore]

This is not making sense to me. What is your main pump?

[mickey204]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

This is not making sense to me. What is your main pump?

I agree

I have corner overflows as well with MP40's and even at max in my 180 this isn't happening

Hmmmm...

**Edit, I do have a durso however....**

Problem solved, swap the herbie with a durso!!

[Reef_junkie91]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

This is not making sense to me. What is your main pump?

My main return pump is a vectra m1. Thanks everyone for all the help I appreciate it not really sure what to
Do at this point. I just don't understand how a powerheads is affecting my overflow. Makes no sense to me

[Reef_junkie91]

Originally Posted by mickey204

I agree

I have corner overflows as well with MP40's and even at max in my 180 this isn't happening

Hmmmm...

**Edit, I do have a durso however....**

Problem solved, swap the herbie with a durso!!

I was thinking about swapping the herbie for a durso but the problem with that is there are only 1" bulk head and i would probably need 2 dursos to handle the GPH and for that I would have to re plumb everything. That will be my last resort... also dursos for me are always loud going into the sump.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by Reef_junkie91

My main return pump is a vectra m1. Thanks everyone for all the help I appreciate it not really sure what to
Do at this point. I just don't understand how a powerheads is affecting my overflow. Makes no sense to me

Ok, I wondered if perhaps you were using a Vectra. Are you running them from a reeflink? Perhaps there's some funky interaction going on with them such that when your vortech ramps up so does the Vectra. That's about the only thing I can think of.

[Reef_junkie91]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Ok, I wondered if perhaps you were using a Vectra. Are you running them from a reeflink? Perhaps there's some funky interaction going on with them such that when your vortech ramps up so does the Vectra. That's about the only thing I can think of.

Nope the vortechs are on the WMX and my vectra is just plugged into the AB8 set on return mode scalibrated to my system.

[CafeReef]

when your MPR40's are turned on and running can you turn down the vectra slightly to account for the increased flow coming from the vortechs?

[Reef_junkie91]

Originally Posted by CafeReef

when your MPR40's are turned on and running can you turn down the vectra slightly to account for the increased flow coming from the vortechs?

I can but that won't fix anything cause the vortechs will ramp down.