Keeping it simple..and it works (part 2)

[ComforablyNumb]

I wanted to post this because PhotoBucket ruined the first one. Can you have a decent reef without all the bells and whistles? Of course!

Here's a couple pics of my 2 yr old 4' mixed reef. There are 10 fish as well.

No sump, no dosing, no filtration at all. Only thing that has been treating the water is a Reef Octopus BH1000 hob skimmer. I use two Kessil a360's only.












Thanks for viewing any comments or suggestions welcome.

[Joe Kelley]

I like it! Do you top off with kalkwasser? Classic berlin.

[norfolkgarden]

Looks fantastic!

You mentioned 10 fish.
What fish do you have?

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[ComforablyNumb]

Thx for your questions...I topped off with kalkwasser for maybe the first 6 months. I stopped to see if there would be much difference over 2 months, there wasnt much noticable, so I did not resume. I know it works well tho.

Yes, classic berlin. I started reefing in 1989 and that was about the only proven method that there was at time. I still have bare bottom, etc..it works for me. Just wish we had LED's then.

My fish...I dont have many pics of them, but here's a couple:




There is also a yellow tang, 3 chromis, a matted filefish, 2 yellowtail damsels, two other damsels. They all eat flake, even the filefish. I feed some taste treats, brine shrimp, nori etc but only once a week. Flakes pack a good nutritional punch, thats why its their main feed in my tank.

In 2 yrs, I have lost only one fish..a chromis that evaporated or something..just disappeared like Jimmy Hoffa. No trace, no body.

[saltwater_wannabe]

that's a beautiful tank - hard to believe it's being run so simply

[oscargrumete61]

So those 4 tubes what it is ?


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[Zorin]

Beautiful! Thanks for sharing! Good to know it can be done simply.
For SW newbies liked me, what's classic berlin method?

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[ComforablyNumb]

Originally Posted by oscargrumete61

So those 4 tubes what it is ?

In the first pic? 2 are Aquaclear 500's I ran during cycling for the first 3 weeks. The other two are the inlet and output of the skimmer. It cycled quickly (about a week actually) because I was fortunate enough to have 70lbs of decent live rock available to me from a guy in Charlottetown, PEI who was shutting down. I asked for pics of his entire tank before I bought it to make sure it was decent. He also assured me it had no pests, and it didn't, except for some minor aiptasia..but I knew the cure for that, thus the matted filefish. I got it all for $140, fresh, here in about 4 hrs and ready to go. Very lucky.

When starting, if you are using live rock as your main filter as was my intention with this reef, it is very important to start with good rock.

Re: Berlin method..probably best to google it for full explanation, but it is basically a simple system from the '80's that relies on live rock, bare bottom, basic water changes and foam fractionalization (skimming) to maintain water quality. It works.

I had a couple of tanks with all the bells...but after a disastrous sump seam failure, I went back to sumpless and got rid of my dosing stuff and ato's etc.
They often turn out to be things that eventually fail, sometimes causing mayhem. Don't need it, didn't want it..so didnt do it with this tank.

The only other things in the tank now are the skimmer, a big powerhead and a good heater. I also replace my heater every two yrs, no matter how well it is working.

Here's a couple of pics of my previous tanks throughout the years. I got moved every 5 yrs or so with my company, so there were more than one, and the first reef pic is from 1990:

First reef and 2nd one which was built into a wall:


First FOWL tank, circa '89....a 135gal built into my den wall:


1998, 2nd fowl, a 180gal put in the wall between my office and the entrance way:


And a pic of my current planted angelfish fw, a 65gal Osaka rolled corner:



Last pic is my current tank, featuring a candycane colony with about a dozen new heads developing underneath:


Cheers..and keep 'em coming, I enjoy answering. -Tim

[oscargrumete61]

Originally Posted by ComforablyNumb

In the first pic? 2 are Aquaclear 500's I ran during cycling for the first 3 weeks. The other two are the inlet and output of the skimmer. It cycled quickly (about a week actually) because I was fortunate enough to have 70lbs of decent live rock available to me from a guy in Charlottetown, PEI who was shutting down. I asked for pics of his entire tank before I bought it to make sure it was quality. He also assured me it had no pests, and it didn't, except for some minor aiptasia..but I knew the cure for that, thus the matted filefish. I got it all for $120, fresh, here in about 3 hrs and ready to go.

When starting, if you are using live rock as your main filter as was my intention with this reef, it is very important to start with good rock.

Re: Berlin method..probably best to google it for full explanation, but it is basically a simple system from the '80's that relies on live rock, bare bottom, basic water changes and foam fractionalization (skimming) to maintain water quality. It works.

I had a couple of tanks with all the bells...but after a disastrous sump seam failure, I went back to sumpless and got rid of my dosing stuff and ato's etc.
They often turn out to be things that eventually fail, sometimes causing mayhem. Don't need it, didn't want it..so didnt do it with this tank.

The only other things in the tank now are the skimmer, a big powerhead and a good heater. I also replace my heater every two yrs, no matter how well it is working.

Here's a couple of pics of my previous tanks throughout the years. I got moved every 5 yrs or so with my company, so there were more than one, and the first reef pic is from 1990:

First reef and 2nd one which was built into a wall:


First FOWL tank, circa '89....a 135gal built into my den wall:


1998, 2nd fowl, a 180gal put in the wall between my office and the entrance way:


And a pic of my current planted angelfish fw, a 65gal Osaka rolled corner:



Last pic is my current tank, featuring a candycane colony with about a dozen new heads developing underneath:


Cheers..and keep 'em coming, I enjoy answering. -Tim

Thanks for your reply, and great explanation


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[ComforablyNumb]

No prob, glad to answer..no need to re-quote the whole post tho.

Cheers.

[homer1475]

Tank is stunning no doubt, and the berlin method works, its been used for years.

Not to burst your bubble, but a tank full of softies does not need the attention a tank full of LPS/SPS needs. The couple LPS I do see are getting enough via your WC regimen(softies don't require a lot of ALC,CAL to build skeletons).

While all the bells and whistles are certainly not needed, a simple doser(either by hand or automated) is required when dealing with stony corals.

FWIW....
Softies prefer slightly "dirtier" water then LPS/SPS corals. When dealing with large amounts of LPS/SPS corals is when all the bells and whistles(dosers, calcium reactors, carbon/GFO reactors, etc) start to be required.

And again I don't mean to discredit your efforts, the tank really is stunning! But to say your keeping it simple with simple corals is really misleading to other newbies who want to keep LPS/SPS corals.

[ComforablyNumb]

Thx for your comment. I have all kinds of sps as you've seen above and they are all healthy and growing. I presume your objection comes from the fact that you see no acro's in my assortment. I would not necessarily presume that I cannot keep them with this regime. I do not have acro's as I personally do not like stony corals,especially the slab variety. I actually find them boring. Personal preference. I have a theory as why they hold much interest at all within the hobby...and that would be because they are assumed to be the most difficult.

There is not much else to recommend in them that I can see over all the other corals. Slower growing, no movement, etc. And that is certainly not to slag the beautiful acro tanks I have seen on here. At all. They are very impressive. Just not my cup of tea, nor are they everyone's.

I had assumed I would face some backlash from folks who have invested thousands in the "bells and whistles" and that they would defend their purchases in the equipment and methodologies they use. No problem and I appreciate your perspective and experience. As I said, I did all that until a couple of yrs ago. My experience was quite negative and my point with this thread is show folks more than one method works...and it does. I am not misleading anyone I don't think.

Acro's are a small slice of the corals available today. Acro's only tanks an even smaller slice. Dosing is not the key imo. Chemical and biological balance and stability are at least as important. Alk being the most important imo. With smaller tanks like mine (say 90gal and under), this is easily achieved via water changes. Much safer than dosing, ato's, etc. The only kind of tank that would require all the added expense and complication of reactors, computer controlled dosing of chemicals, constant testing of calcium levels, etc ...are larger acro tanks. Again, it is my view that this actually constitutes a small minority of tanks. Maybe I am in error with that assessment but someone will have to prove me wrong before I believe it.

We have all read the horror stories of ato's that overflowed tanks ruining thousands of dollars worth of corals. Or dosing that has gone wrong for whatever reason..mixup in proportions, too much of a particular additive or a failure of peristaltic pump based doser, probes or the units controlling them, etc etc., sometimes resulting in compete wipeouts. This forum, and the one I have been posting on for yrs in Canada, are full of these heart-breaking stories. Many folks immediately head over to the for sale section after one of these episodes from my experience. Last thing we need is more folks leaving the hobby ...especially over failed units or dosing mixups caused by human error...and that are not required on the majority of tanks for long term success.

I may actually purchase a couple of acro frags and run a 6 month test on them using my methodology of balance, stability and water changes. In earlier days, it was assumed that the more difficult stonies and acro's were difficult to keep because of lighting (that is why I inserted my comment about LEDs in my orig post) and I have great lighting now. I have a couple of Marine Orbit 250w mH with 100w of ho actinics sitting out in the garage and they are sitting out there for a reason, along with my ato's and dosing stuff..I think my little experiment may have and achieve some success with the acro frags..we'll see. I will keep this thread updated as to how that is going.

Thx for your comments and input..but I certainly do not want to turn this thread into an on-going debate about large acro tanks and what it takes to keep them going. As I said, I think they constitute a smaller minority of reef tanks in the real world. What can be said without fear of contradiction I think is...if you can keep slabs of stonies, you can keep all the others just as attractive, or in my personal choice, the more attractive, varieties of corals.

Stay tuned for updates on the acro frag experiment. I would like your opinion on something tho...I have an orange seriotopia (?) sps frag I have had for a little while now and a forest fire digitata, both of which grew off their plugs within a couple of months in my tank. How much more difficult do you think acro's would be for my experiment with my tank? Extremely more difficult or not so much? I would suspect not so much... but I may be in error in that assessment and would appreciate your quick input on that subject.

[Mishri]

those are considered beginner sps... less demanding of constant conditions, can be kept in lower light, and only a couple in a larger tank isn't going to be using up all of the calcium..

acros and milis are much more demanding... that is where most people really struggle long term.. my dad kept trying an acro or a birdsnest, they'd grow for awhile then die off because he wasn't monitoring his parameters... he had chemistry shifts, wasn't dosing.. they'd live for several months and grow, but eventually would die.

If you want to keep mainly softies and some lps I agree with you, many people chase numbers and try dosing things when they are not that demanding.. water changes were sufficient on my lps/softies tanks as well... I didn't even us a skimmer, I didn't monitor anything.. heater and powerheads and lights.. thats all i needed.

personally, i just prefer the way sps looks... there are a few lps I like as well.. and I had a really nicely colored tree coral that I wouldn't mind in my new tank... it looked like this http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...645&pcatid=645 except bright purple instead of orange.

[ComforablyNumb]

So your assessment is I will have considerable trouble with acro's even tho my other sps are doing well so far. Fair enough... and that is what I was asking for. Appreciate your perspective...and as I said, I will update this thread with what happens long term with any acro frags I pick up.

As I said above, I certainly do not want to turn this thread into an on-going debate about large acro tanks and what it takes to keep them going, but I am willing to undertake a couple of acro's and see what happens.

[ComforablyNumb]

In regards to your anticipated purchase of that particular gorgeous softie...a friend of mine has a 410g (with all the bells..about $20k invested) and he ended up keeping his at a shaded entrance of a cave. He found it difficult to feed as his tank was not producing enough pods, plankton etc. and it was a PIA for him to feed it.

Let us know how you make out with that. They are very pretty, no doubt.

[ComforablyNumb]

Did your dad keep up with his water changes? I had a birdsnest I gave away when it got too large and I kept bumping it off when doing other maintenance in the tank. Didnt really care for the appearance of that particular coral either..but, as always, your mileage may vary and personal preferences certainly do.

[ComforablyNumb]

This started out as a 1.5" stick approx 14 months ago:


one of 3 sps frags I have:


same frags 16 months later:


digitata frag:


same one approx 7 months later:


orange seri frag at first, sorry poor pic of it, all I have tho:



several months later:

[Zorin]

What height (bootom of kessil to water surface) do you run your two kessils?
What is your water change schedule?

Thanks again for sharing. This is perfect. I'm planning a mixed reef tank. But misty if what I like are considered the easier ones. I like seeing what the minimum is I need to start. Then I can know where I can skip extras and get the extras I want to get like a controller that can monitor parameters and alert me on my phone when something is it of wack.

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[Zorin]

Originally Posted by Zorin

What height (bootom of kessil to water surface) do you run your two kessils?
What is your water change schedule?

Thanks again for sharing. This is perfect. I'm planning a mixed reef tank. But misty if what I like are considered the easier ones. I like seeing what the minimum is I need to start. Then I can know where I can skip extras and get the extras I want to get like a controller that can monitor parameters and alert me on my phone when something is it of wack.

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*But most of

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[ComforablyNumb]

Originally Posted by Zorin

What height (bootom of kessil to water surface) do you run your two kessils?
What is your water change schedule?

Thanks again for sharing. This is perfect.

My two kessils are approx 8" above the surface, I have the a360 "we" version. They are run on 13 photoperiod, 0% to 85% (I have never run them higher than that) over 3 hrs, 7hrs at 85%, and 3 ramping back down. The color settings with the Kessils are entirely for your eye and viewing preference..they provide plenty of the blue spectrum throughout, no matter how white you like it.



Water changes are the key to my success I think. I change out approx 40% - 50% every two months. Safe and effective for my situation. In very large tanks like my buddy's 410gal, this is not the preferred method. He utilizes a dosing regime.

[Mishri]

Originally Posted by ComforablyNumb

Did your dad keep up with his water changes? I had a birdsnest I gave away when it got too large and I kept bumping it off when doing other maintenance in the tank. Didnt really care for the appearance of that particular coral either..but, as always, your mileage may vary and personal preferences certainly do.

I'm pretty sure they died around the same time of year every time.. hunting season, he'd get other people to take care of the tank and I'm sure they'd overfeed and no water changes for a month.. I don't live near him or I would have helped. He took his tank down because of that.. extended vacations meant returning to dead stuff.

[ComforablyNumb]

That is always a challenge for me when we are away for more than a week as well. I have a nephew with a degree who does not know what the meaning of "dont feed them too much" is, but he is all I have when we are gone on vacation.

[sde1500]

Beautiful tank. I'll never understand the comments like "yea but you can't do that for X, but no offense". Why the need to criticize?

[Zorin]

Wow, that's a lot less than I expected for water changes. I expected you say 50% a week. You only do a water change every other month?

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[BigDave]

beautiful tank.