Nitrites won’t come down

reilly2524 · 10/01/2017, 07:31 AM

So I’m in the process of my fishless cycle, I used biospira and dosed ammonia. The ammonia was being converted well but now that the ammonia is gone the nitrites haven’t dropped. They’ve been at 4ppm for the past 2 days. I haven’t been dosing ammonia. I do have very high nitrates as well, 64+ppm ( 64 is the highest the Red Sea goes to) any advice on what to do?

mcgyvr · 10/01/2017, 07:46 AM

Just wait..
Don't rush mother nature..

reilly2524 · 10/01/2017, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Just wait..
Don't rush mother nature..

Should I dose a little ammonia just to keep the ammonia feeding bacteria alive? If yes how much should I dose? 1ppm? 2ppm?

JTL · 10/01/2017, 07:57 AM

If the ammonia spiked and came down and the nitrites and nitrates went up everything is going as it should. No need to add more ammonia.

reilly2524 · 10/01/2017, 08:00 AM

But the nitrites have been high for a few days, I don’t know how much longer they will be high. Won’t the ammonia eating bacteria die if they don’t have anything to eat for multiple days?

mcgyvr · 10/01/2017, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reilly2524

Should I dose a little ammonia just to keep the ammonia feeding bacteria alive? If yes how much should I dose? 1ppm? 2ppm?

A big fat NOOOOOO...
There is no need to dose ammonia to keep the bacteria alive.. It will stay alive for a long time..(studies show a year or more without any additions to the tank)
The only thing that will do is make your nitrates even higher..

JUST WAIT...

JTL · 10/01/2017, 08:04 AM

I asked the same question a while back and the answer is no, the bacteria will be self sustaining for quite a while. It takes a while for the nitrites to come down. Once they do complete a water change to get rid of some of the nitrates.

reilly2524 · 10/01/2017, 08:05 AM

Alright I’ll just wait it out. I’ll send an update in a few days.

hkgar · 10/01/2017, 01:11 PM

Time for the first two rules of reefing.

Rule 1. Be patient. Take everything you do in reefing very slow. Everything!
Rule 2. Go even slower than that. You can not go too slow.

Lsufan · 10/01/2017, 07:37 PM

The more ammonia u dose the higher the nitrites will be. I have used biospira & dr.tims & have had the same results with each. I find that they process the ammonia quickly but nitrites stay around forever. I have had ammonia go to 0 in 2 days using it but then nitrite stay around for a month. To me it still takes the same amount of time to cycle the tank. What it does do is process the ammonia quickly & that is why some people can get by with adding fish, because nitrite isn't as toxic to saltwater fish at the levels we see.

reilly2524 · 10/04/2017, 01:33 PM

Thought I would give an update, nitrites are still high 4+ ppm. Just give it more time? Should I do a water change?

leetch · 10/04/2017, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reilly2524

Thought I would give an update, nitrites are still high 4+ ppm. Just give it more time? Should I do a water change?

Cycling takes weeks to months...give it time.

ALso what's in your tank? Live sand, live rock, etc?

hkgar · 10/04/2017, 02:21 PM

let's think about this. Just suppose you could do enough water changes to get nitrites to 0. Pause, realize that a 25% water change would only reduce the 4 you have to 3, since you aren't doing a 100% water change, no matter how many 25% changes you do you will only reduce the number by 25%.

OK, back to enough water changes to get to zero, the tank will not have completed its natural cycle and as soon as you introduce a species the gives off ammonia as wast (fish) nitrites will go right back up.

You just can not fight mama nature and she works very slowly - most of the time.

Patients dear reefer, patience. All good things come to he who waits.

xCry0x · 10/04/2017, 03:55 PM

If you are in a huge hurry you can go to your LFS and buy a giant chunk of live rock to throw in your tank. That usually gets things going a bit faster =)

It also can result in all sorts of unwanted extras coming into your tank though.

mcgyvr · 10/04/2017, 04:14 PM

When did you start the tank/cycle?
Did you use dry rock/sand or live rock or what?
If live was it locally sourced or shipped to you?

oh wait.. its only been 3 days since your last post..
answer the above questions then wait... 3 days ain't squat..

as stated cycling can take weeks (4+ usually) when starting with dry rock/sand.. or a few weeks withe shipped live rock to instantly with locally sourced live rock kept.

reilly2524 · 10/04/2017, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

When did you start the tank/cycle?
Did you use dry rock/sand or live rock or what?
If live was it locally sourced or shipped to you?

oh wait.. its only been 3 days since your last post..
answer the above questions then wait... 3 days ain't squat..

as stated cycling can take weeks (4+ usually) when starting with dry rock/sand.. or a few weeks withe shipped live rock to instantly with locally sourced live rock kept.

Cycle was started September 23 so about 11 days now. I used dry rock (Marco rock) and dry sand. And I used biospira (enough for 75gal my system is 55-60gal)

Scarface8 · 10/04/2017, 04:36 PM

Thought I’d add my 2 cents, mine goes along the same theme as everyone else, give it at least a 3-4 weeksfrom the start of your cycle for nitrites to go down, then you can do water changes to bring down nitrates, once nitrites go down I’d say you could add a small fish or 2, that in itself will keep the cycle going, they produce ammonia, that turns into nitrites, that turns to nitrates, as mentioned in previous posts, take your time, rushing in will get you no where quick, if anything it can send you backwards, best of luck

mcgyvr · 10/04/2017, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reilly2524

Cycle was started September 23 so about 11 days now. I used dry rock (Marco rock) and dry sand. And I used biospira (enough for 75gal my system is 55-60gal)

got about 3 weeks left..

All you need to be doing now is topping off with freshwater to replace the freshwater thats been evaporating..
other than that its just wait..

reilly2524 · 10/04/2017, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

got about 3 weeks left..

All you need to be doing now is topping off with freshwater to replace the freshwater thats been evaporating..
other than that its just wait..

Well that puts a damper on things. I thought based on people that reviewed biospira that my tank would be cycled in about a week. Oh well more time to setup a qt tank.

xCry0x · 10/04/2017, 05:11 PM

I don't have experience with the various bacteria in a bottle solutions but the quickest way in my experience to cycle is to get a big chunk of live rock.

By live rock, I mean ideally you have a LFS that keeps rock in water as part of their overall tank setup. That rock will contain the bacteria to get things going on day 1.

Less effective but along the same thought lines would be to get some used filter sponges from a tank that is up and running -- similar to live rock the sponges would build up beneficial bacteria and will help jump start things.

The big con to using live rock or filter sponges is you end up with all sorts of unexpected guests coming along. I started my first tank with a softball sized live rock and it had something like 3 crabs pop out of it while the tank was cycling -- cool but not necessarily desired. You could also get all sorts of pests like aptasia, bubble algae, bryopsis etc.

The benefit to a dry start is you avoid all that crap. The negative is it takes a while.

mcgyvr · 10/04/2017, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reilly2524

Well that puts a damper on things. I thought based on people that reviewed biospira that my tank would be cycled in about a week. Oh well more time to setup a qt tank.

sometimes that stuff seems to help some... other times.. not so much..
In reality the most toxic of the 3 is ammonia.. nitrites aren't really that bad so thats why some get away with rushing and adding stuff even though nitrites are still there.. so it may have helped get you though the tougher ammonia faster than without.. but
in general its always a smarter move to wait vs try to rush these things..

NOTHING good happens fast in this hobby.. NOTHING..

This is not a hobby for the impatient..

If you want a fast cycle you do that by getting locally sourced live rock or via companies that ship it fully submerged in water.. Its fast/instant because the cycling process has already happened..

reilly2524 · 10/04/2017, 05:48 PM

Kind of a side note. My lights should be kept off during the cycle right? I haven’t had them on.

mcgyvr · 10/04/2017, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reilly2524

Kind of a side note. My lights should be kept off during the cycle right? I haven’t had them on.

In general its best to keep them off for the first couple days as some bacteria can be effected by light early on but after that you can have them on..

I personally have always left the lights off during cycling.. partly to help ensure the "ugly stages" don't get too much fuel.. (diatoms then green hair/film algae then cyano)

reilly2524 · 10/04/2017, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

In general its best to keep them off for the first couple days as some bacteria can be effected by light early on but after that you can have them on..

I personally have always left the lights off during cycling.. partly to help ensure the "ugly stages" don't get too much fuel.. (diatoms then green hair/film algae then cyano)

That’s exactly why I’ve been keeping mine off because I have a ton of nitrates right now and I don’t want to fuel a bunch of algae.

reilly2524 · 10/06/2017, 02:31 PM

Good news everyone! The nitrites is the past 24hr have gone from 4+ppm to 1.5ppm! I expect that they will be gone by tomorrow afternoon.

10/01/2017, 07:31 AM	#1
reilly2524 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 78	Nitrites won’t come down So I’m in the process of my fishless cycle, I used biospira and dosed ammonia. The ammonia was being converted well but now that the ammonia is gone the nitrites haven’t dropped. They’ve been at 4ppm for the past 2 days. I haven’t been dosing ammonia. I do have very high nitrates as well, 64+ppm ( 64 is the highest the Red Sea goes to) any advice on what to do?

10/01/2017, 07:46 AM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Just wait.. Don't rush mother nature.. __________________ Who me?

10/01/2017, 07:57 AM	#4
JTL Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Venice Island, FL Posts: 2,532	If the ammonia spiked and came down and the nitrites and nitrates went up everything is going as it should. No need to add more ammonia. __________________ John 100 gallon DT and 50 gallon sump with refugium. Reefbreeders Photon V2+.

10/01/2017, 08:04 AM	#7
JTL Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Venice Island, FL Posts: 2,532	I asked the same question a while back and the answer is no, the bacteria will be self sustaining for quite a while. It takes a while for the nitrites to come down. Once they do complete a water change to get rid of some of the nitrates. __________________ John 100 gallon DT and 50 gallon sump with refugium. Reefbreeders Photon V2+.

10/01/2017, 01:11 PM	#9
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	Time for the first two rules of reefing. Rule 1. Be patient. Take everything you do in reefing very slow. Everything! Rule 2. Go even slower than that. You can not go too slow. __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

10/01/2017, 08:00 AM	#5
reilly2524 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 78	But the nitrites have been high for a few days, I don’t know how much longer they will be high. Won’t the ammonia eating bacteria die if they don’t have anything to eat for multiple days?

10/01/2017, 08:05 AM	#8
reilly2524 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 78	Alright I’ll just wait it out. I’ll send an update in a few days.

10/01/2017, 07:37 PM	#10
Lsufan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 1,410	The more ammonia u dose the higher the nitrites will be. I have used biospira & dr.tims & have had the same results with each. I find that they process the ammonia quickly but nitrites stay around forever. I have had ammonia go to 0 in 2 days using it but then nitrite stay around for a month. To me it still takes the same amount of time to cycle the tank. What it does do is process the ammonia quickly & that is why some people can get by with adding fish, because nitrite isn't as toxic to saltwater fish at the levels we see.

10/04/2017, 01:33 PM	#11
reilly2524 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 78	Thought I would give an update, nitrites are still high 4+ ppm. Just give it more time? Should I do a water change?

10/04/2017, 02:21 PM	#13
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	let's think about this. Just suppose you could do enough water changes to get nitrites to 0. Pause, realize that a 25% water change would only reduce the 4 you have to 3, since you aren't doing a 100% water change, no matter how many 25% changes you do you will only reduce the number by 25%. OK, back to enough water changes to get to zero, the tank will not have completed its natural cycle and as soon as you introduce a species the gives off ammonia as wast (fish) nitrites will go right back up. You just can not fight mama nature and she works very slowly - most of the time. Patients dear reefer, patience. All good things come to he who waits. __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

10/04/2017, 03:55 PM	#14
xCry0x Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Martinez, CA Posts: 1,116	If you are in a huge hurry you can go to your LFS and buy a giant chunk of live rock to throw in your tank. That usually gets things going a bit faster =) It also can result in all sorts of unwanted extras coming into your tank though. __________________ Red Sea Max 250

10/04/2017, 04:14 PM	#15
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	When did you start the tank/cycle? Did you use dry rock/sand or live rock or what? If live was it locally sourced or shipped to you? oh wait.. its only been 3 days since your last post.. answer the above questions then wait... 3 days ain't squat.. as stated cycling can take weeks (4+ usually) when starting with dry rock/sand.. or a few weeks withe shipped live rock to instantly with locally sourced live rock kept.

10/04/2017, 04:36 PM	#17
Scarface8 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 126	Nitrites won’t come down Thought I’d add my 2 cents, mine goes along the same theme as everyone else, give it at least a 3-4 weeksfrom the start of your cycle for nitrites to go down, then you can do water changes to bring down nitrates, once nitrites go down I’d say you could add a small fish or 2, that in itself will keep the cycle going, they produce ammonia, that turns into nitrites, that turns to nitrates, as mentioned in previous posts, take your time, rushing in will get you no where quick, if anything it can send you backwards, best of luck

10/04/2017, 05:11 PM	#20
xCry0x Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Martinez, CA Posts: 1,116	I don't have experience with the various bacteria in a bottle solutions but the quickest way in my experience to cycle is to get a big chunk of live rock. By live rock, I mean ideally you have a LFS that keeps rock in water as part of their overall tank setup. That rock will contain the bacteria to get things going on day 1. Less effective but along the same thought lines would be to get some used filter sponges from a tank that is up and running -- similar to live rock the sponges would build up beneficial bacteria and will help jump start things. The big con to using live rock or filter sponges is you end up with all sorts of unexpected guests coming along. I started my first tank with a softball sized live rock and it had something like 3 crabs pop out of it while the tank was cycling -- cool but not necessarily desired. You could also get all sorts of pests like aptasia, bubble algae, bryopsis etc. The benefit to a dry start is you avoid all that crap. The negative is it takes a while. __________________ Red Sea Max 250

10/04/2017, 05:48 PM	#22
reilly2524 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 78	Kind of a side note. My lights should be kept off during the cycle right? I haven’t had them on.

10/06/2017, 02:31 PM	#25
reilly2524 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 78	Good news everyone! The nitrites is the past 24hr have gone from 4+ppm to 1.5ppm! I expect that they will be gone by tomorrow afternoon.