Wave pumps

debarmay · 02/15/2019, 06:34 PM

Hi all. Need some of your expertise. I have a 90 gal reef tank- would like to do a mixed tank which I understand is not ideal. Right now I have mostly LPS and softies, anemones that are growing like crazy. I have started to develop cyano bacteria. Also Im not seeing the growth in my corals that I would like. I'm wondering if my flow is not good. I have a Vortex 40 and Vortex 10. Unfortunately before I realized it, we placed the tank up against the wall and there is not enough space to put the Vortex 10 on the opposite of the tank from the Vortex 40. I put it on the back of the tank close to the opposite side from the Vortex 40. I seem to have a dead spot one the R hand of the aquarium right below the Vortex 40. Here's what Im wondering. Would it be better to have 3 Vortex 10 instead of a 40 and 10? If so where should I position the wavepumps. All help is greatly appreciated!

mcgyvr · 02/15/2019, 07:50 PM

Do you mean Vortech Mp10 and mp40?
While flow can help with cyano issues IMO its rarely the reason you have it...Its likely a presence of excessive dissolved organics..

Typically just siphoning it out during your next water change followed by a 3 day lights out helps quite a bit...And then another siphon and water change to suck out whats left and repeating every other week or so really helps..

Increasing flow can help some too on occasion...other times it does little to nothing..
IMO your flow is probably fine and not having room on the back is hardly an issue..

FishAndPhysics · 02/15/2019, 08:03 PM

Can you post a full water chemistry parameter list? Salinity (and the tool used), Nitrate, phosphate, alk, ca, mag? Also, how often are you doing water changes? I'd be more worried about all that before pump placement.

debarmay · 02/15/2019, 08:55 PM

Okay. Have checked all water parameters last week and they were fine. I'm using Red Sea Foundation and Hanna instruments. I will check tomorrow and post them. I do water changes 15 -20 gal and week and half. I have a salinity probe from apex fusion and I also use a refract meter to check salinity, Right now it is 35.4 ppt. ph is 8 and temp is 79.9. Post the other tomorrow.

debarmay · 02/16/2019, 01:44 PM

Well I guess you guys were right. Looks like I got a dirty tank. Parameters are as follows:
Alkalinity 6.3 dKH, CA 499, Ph 8.02, salinity 35.8, temp 80.2, nitrites 0, ammonia 0, nitrates 40 ppm, phosphates- my Hanna check kept giving me an error message of 200 ppb. Any suggestions. Guess I should do a water change and cut back on feeding. I was feeding the fish daily but the corals every other day. Any other suggestions. Do I need GFO? Thanks

FishAndPhysics · 02/16/2019, 01:58 PM

In addition to water changes and cutting back on feeding, your alk is a bit low. If you are dosing, just slightly (25%) increase your alk component until the level comes up. If you aren't dosing, just do water changes with a high alk salt (reef crystals or similar).

debarmay · 02/16/2019, 03:57 PM

I actually have a ca reactor set and ready to go to connect with my apex system but I'm a little nervous.

dkeller_nc · 02/16/2019, 08:23 PM

Do not reduce your fishes' food simply to correct a cosmetic algae problem. That is, assuming you're not radically overfeeding your fish. Others here, particularly Sk8r, can give you some specific advice about how much to feed and how often.

Generally, you can expect a nutrient build-up over time in any reef tank without counter measures. You can definitely reduce immediate dissolved nutrient problems with judicious water changes, but especially in a large tank, that can get both tiresome and expensive over the long term. One aspect of the water change issue - make sure that you have an effective RODI system, or a good source to purchase purified water from. Dechlorinated tap water for a reef tank is a no-no (but generally fine for fish-only tanks).

There are several other strategies to deal with dissolved inorganic nutrients (i.e., phosphate and nitrate) that go along with water changes. These focus on either the front end, which is removing organics before they degrade into nitrate and phosphate, or the back end, which is using lifeforms to utilize these nutrients to remove them from the water column.

On the front end is effective skimming, occasional sand washing, water filtration with reef socks, and potentially sump vacuuming to remove excess detritus. The sand washing, in particular will do the dual job of removing built-up organics in your sand as well as removing the cyanobacteria that's on the surface of the sand. The most convenient way to do this is with a gravel wash tube. One caveat to this - if you've a substantial sandbed, you want to do this in stages of perhaps 20% of the surface area at a time. Otherwise, you can actually cause the formation and release of hydrogen sulfide, which is deadly to the inhabitants of your tank.

On the back end, you've a choice of using denitrifying bacteria to remove the NO3 and PO4, or use algae in a refugium or algae reactor, or both. For the bacteria, one typically encourages their growth with carbon dosing. That can take the form of liquid carbon dosing with vinegar, or it can take the form of solid bio-pellets in a reactor. Personally, I favor the liquid dosing because it's easy and darn near free. For this to work, you will require effective skimming, because it's removing bacteria with a skimmer that removes the nitrate and phosphate that they've taken up that makes it effective.

Refugiums with macro algae or an actual algae reactor is another approach that's effective. A refugium can be as simple as just placing a light over a compartment in your sump and putting a handful of chaetomorpha algae in it. Or it can take the form of a small tank adjacent to your display tank with an overflow and a small pump from the sump to supply it with tank water. These small tanks can be interesting in and of themselves.

debarmay · 02/17/2019, 02:01 PM

Thank you. I have a 30 gaL sump with a refugium and light. I have chaeto in there. Also have three filter socks that get change every three days. I also have a reef octopus protein skimmer. I usually take off the cyano and demerit with a gravel wash tube that I use on my fresh water planted tanks. Its good to know about the 20% surface. How large are you talking about? Mine is 90 gal. I also have a RODI system that has ) particles after filtration-never use tap water. I will read up on carbon dosing. Thanks again.

02/15/2019, 06:34 PM	#1
debarmay Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 12	Wave pumps Hi all. Need some of your expertise. I have a 90 gal reef tank- would like to do a mixed tank which I understand is not ideal. Right now I have mostly LPS and softies, anemones that are growing like crazy. I have started to develop cyano bacteria. Also Im not seeing the growth in my corals that I would like. I'm wondering if my flow is not good. I have a Vortex 40 and Vortex 10. Unfortunately before I realized it, we placed the tank up against the wall and there is not enough space to put the Vortex 10 on the opposite of the tank from the Vortex 40. I put it on the back of the tank close to the opposite side from the Vortex 40. I seem to have a dead spot one the R hand of the aquarium right below the Vortex 40. Here's what Im wondering. Would it be better to have 3 Vortex 10 instead of a 40 and 10? If so where should I position the wavepumps. All help is greatly appreciated!

02/15/2019, 07:50 PM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Do you mean Vortech Mp10 and mp40? While flow can help with cyano issues IMO its rarely the reason you have it...Its likely a presence of excessive dissolved organics.. Typically just siphoning it out during your next water change followed by a 3 day lights out helps quite a bit...And then another siphon and water change to suck out whats left and repeating every other week or so really helps.. Increasing flow can help some too on occasion...other times it does little to nothing.. IMO your flow is probably fine and not having room on the back is hardly an issue.. __________________ Who me?

02/15/2019, 08:03 PM	#3
FishAndPhysics Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: NY Posts: 95	Can you post a full water chemistry parameter list? Salinity (and the tool used), Nitrate, phosphate, alk, ca, mag? Also, how often are you doing water changes? I'd be more worried about all that before pump placement. __________________ 90 Gallon Mixed Reef with 20g sump Current Stock: 1 - Ocellaris Clownfish, 1 - Yellow Tang, 1 - Kole Yellow Eye Tang, 1 - unidentified hitchhiker goby, 1 - Coral Beauty, 3 - Lyretail Anthias.

02/16/2019, 01:58 PM	#6
FishAndPhysics Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: NY Posts: 95	In addition to water changes and cutting back on feeding, your alk is a bit low. If you are dosing, just slightly (25%) increase your alk component until the level comes up. If you aren't dosing, just do water changes with a high alk salt (reef crystals or similar). __________________ 90 Gallon Mixed Reef with 20g sump Current Stock: 1 - Ocellaris Clownfish, 1 - Yellow Tang, 1 - Kole Yellow Eye Tang, 1 - unidentified hitchhiker goby, 1 - Coral Beauty, 3 - Lyretail Anthias.

02/15/2019, 08:55 PM	#4
debarmay Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 12	Okay. Have checked all water parameters last week and they were fine. I'm using Red Sea Foundation and Hanna instruments. I will check tomorrow and post them. I do water changes 15 -20 gal and week and half. I have a salinity probe from apex fusion and I also use a refract meter to check salinity, Right now it is 35.4 ppt. ph is 8 and temp is 79.9. Post the other tomorrow.

02/16/2019, 01:44 PM	#5
debarmay Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 12	Well I guess you guys were right. Looks like I got a dirty tank. Parameters are as follows: Alkalinity 6.3 dKH, CA 499, Ph 8.02, salinity 35.8, temp 80.2, nitrites 0, ammonia 0, nitrates 40 ppm, phosphates- my Hanna check kept giving me an error message of 200 ppb. Any suggestions. Guess I should do a water change and cut back on feeding. I was feeding the fish daily but the corals every other day. Any other suggestions. Do I need GFO? Thanks

02/16/2019, 03:57 PM	#7
debarmay Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 12	I actually have a ca reactor set and ready to go to connect with my apex system but I'm a little nervous.

02/16/2019, 08:23 PM	#8
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	Do not reduce your fishes' food simply to correct a cosmetic algae problem. That is, assuming you're not radically overfeeding your fish. Others here, particularly Sk8r, can give you some specific advice about how much to feed and how often. Generally, you can expect a nutrient build-up over time in any reef tank without counter measures. You can definitely reduce immediate dissolved nutrient problems with judicious water changes, but especially in a large tank, that can get both tiresome and expensive over the long term. One aspect of the water change issue - make sure that you have an effective RODI system, or a good source to purchase purified water from. Dechlorinated tap water for a reef tank is a no-no (but generally fine for fish-only tanks). There are several other strategies to deal with dissolved inorganic nutrients (i.e., phosphate and nitrate) that go along with water changes. These focus on either the front end, which is removing organics before they degrade into nitrate and phosphate, or the back end, which is using lifeforms to utilize these nutrients to remove them from the water column. On the front end is effective skimming, occasional sand washing, water filtration with reef socks, and potentially sump vacuuming to remove excess detritus. The sand washing, in particular will do the dual job of removing built-up organics in your sand as well as removing the cyanobacteria that's on the surface of the sand. The most convenient way to do this is with a gravel wash tube. One caveat to this - if you've a substantial sandbed, you want to do this in stages of perhaps 20% of the surface area at a time. Otherwise, you can actually cause the formation and release of hydrogen sulfide, which is deadly to the inhabitants of your tank. On the back end, you've a choice of using denitrifying bacteria to remove the NO3 and PO4, or use algae in a refugium or algae reactor, or both. For the bacteria, one typically encourages their growth with carbon dosing. That can take the form of liquid carbon dosing with vinegar, or it can take the form of solid bio-pellets in a reactor. Personally, I favor the liquid dosing because it's easy and darn near free. For this to work, you will require effective skimming, because it's removing bacteria with a skimmer that removes the nitrate and phosphate that they've taken up that makes it effective. Refugiums with macro algae or an actual algae reactor is another approach that's effective. A refugium can be as simple as just placing a light over a compartment in your sump and putting a handful of chaetomorpha algae in it. Or it can take the form of a small tank adjacent to your display tank with an overflow and a small pump from the sump to supply it with tank water. These small tanks can be interesting in and of themselves.

02/17/2019, 02:01 PM	#9
debarmay Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 12	Thank you. I have a 30 gaL sump with a refugium and light. I have chaeto in there. Also have three filter socks that get change every three days. I also have a reef octopus protein skimmer. I usually take off the cyano and demerit with a gravel wash tube that I use on my fresh water planted tanks. Its good to know about the 20% surface. How large are you talking about? Mine is 90 gal. I also have a RODI system that has ) particles after filtration-never use tap water. I will read up on carbon dosing. Thanks again.