Getting shocked from my halide pendant

trmiv · 01/23/2005, 02:09 AM

I'm running an Aqua Medic Ocean Light pendant which I replaced the ballast on with a 250w IceCap. I have a 14K Hamilton bulb, which takes a bit to start, but usually does. (ballast buzzes for about a minute and then it starts). Anyway, I've noticed that when I touch the pendant, I get a very slight shock. It's not even enough to make me pull my hand away, but it's there.

To wire the pendant to ballast, I bought one of those computer power cords, and cut the end off. The Ocean Light comes with the female end of one of those computer power cords, so the male end plugs right in. The pendant ground runs from the reflector, to the green wire, down to the grounding screw on the side of the IceCap. I would think that would ground the pendant, correctly, but I guess not. I guess the ground is just not working correctly here. So, could I just bypass the ballast grounding clip, and ground the pendant directly to screw on a wall outlet?

bulldogfish · 01/23/2005, 07:15 AM

trmiv

Get another piece of green wire preferably and run a groun from the ballast body to the actual supply line. This should eliminate that samll electric shock.

HTH

Harmonicat · 01/23/2005, 07:16 AM

Does it have a 3 prong cord?Are the wires tight?It could be something else in the tank and your light is grounding you when you touch it.

trmiv · 01/23/2005, 01:35 PM

Yes, everything is three prong cord. I've checked all the connections, and the grounds are hooked up. It's plugged into one of those good power strips that indicate if it's grounded with a light (I tested that by bypassing the ground, and the light went off). The light is plugged into it's own GFCI, and all the other equipment on another GFCI. I've also just ordered a grounding probe, just in case.

bulldogfish: I'm not sure what you mean when you say " to the actual supply line."

trmiv · 01/25/2005, 01:44 PM

Anyone have any more advice on this?

I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do, but I tried just grounding the pendant straight to different ground source. When I do that, the GFCI the light is hooked up to trips the second power is turned on.

Harmonicat · 01/25/2005, 06:41 PM

How old is the light?Sounds like it is bad.Could be the ballast.

dougchambers · 01/25/2005, 06:42 PM

If you have a DMM (Digital MultiMeter) or plain multimeter, ohm out between the ballast case and the pendant (not the wire) and check for a good connection. The meter should read nearly the same as if you touch the probes together.

It still sounds like a ground problem...

-Doug

trmiv · 01/25/2005, 07:52 PM

Harmonicat: The light and ballast are brand new.

I guess I'll have to borrow or buy a multimeter and see what I can find.

benonmsn · 01/25/2005, 07:53 PM

its not grounded properly

trmiv · 01/25/2005, 09:08 PM

I know it's not grounded properly, I just can't figure out where.

benonmsn · 01/25/2005, 09:48 PM

did u try grounding the pendant, or ballast if applicable to a ground? the housing to an outlet, or the center screw

benonmsn · 01/25/2005, 09:48 PM

did u try grounding the pendant, or ballast if applicable to a ground? the housing to an outlet, or the center screw

trmiv · 01/25/2005, 10:02 PM

Yea, like I said above I tried that, and when I do that, the GFCI trips immediately when the power comes on. I ran a ground from the pendant to a totally different outlet's ground screw. Is it safe to do that, and just not use the GFCI for the light? The tank is on a completely different GFCI, so I'd still have that.

~ChrisB~ · 01/25/2005, 10:05 PM

The pendant itself more than likely is not properly grounded to the ballast ground. If you can peek inside the pendant be sure the green wire on the 3-conductor is connected to the pendant body in some way, free from obstruction.

~ChrisB~ · 01/25/2005, 10:06 PM

Shouldn't matter where the ground comes from. As long as it is grounded.

~ChrisB~ · 01/25/2005, 10:08 PM

At the same time though, there should not be any voltage running through the ground anyway. I strongly reccomend that you trace out the root of the problem and find where this sray voltage is coming from.

trmiv · 01/25/2005, 10:12 PM

I took off the end off the pendant, and the wires are all as they come from the factory, and hooked up as they should be. Aqua Medic seems to make a very cleanly put together pendant, and everything is hooked up as they intended.

Now, I've heard of trouble with Hamilton bulbs and not making proper contact with the sockets, and my seems to have that problem. Could that cause this? I have a new AB 20K bulb coming tomorrow, maybe I'll just try it with that bulb and see if the problem is still there.

~ChrisB~ · 01/25/2005, 10:20 PM

Problem aith the Hamiltons is that the contacts on the ends are pretty cheaply made IMO and appear to be quite thinner than the more $$$ brands. I think it's a fine idea to check the problem with the new bulb, and quite possibly it will go away. Proceed with caution though, electricty and salt water are bad news. It's not the voltage, it's the amperage. GL!

Steve Ruddy · 01/26/2005, 12:44 PM

When you feel the shock what else if anything are you touching beside the pedant. Stray voltage in the aquarium will be felt if you touch a ground. Thats why I always use ground probes.

trmiv · 01/26/2005, 12:47 PM

Touching nothing but the pedant. I ordered a ground probe which should be here tomorrow. That still doesn't fix the pendant problem though. I'll see what the new bulb does today.

Hawk72 · 01/26/2005, 01:32 PM

I agree with Tank, you have stray voltage somewhere that shouldn't be there. Maybe a white or black wire touching metal somewhere. Inspect them closely as it can be very difficult to see.

Jason

trmiv · 01/26/2005, 01:39 PM

Nothing is touching anywhere that I can see The wires run from the socket, right to the wiring block, and out to the cord.

Hawk72 · 01/26/2005, 02:32 PM

trmiv,

It sounds like you have a short between the nuetral wire and the ground wire somewhere. Use a multi-meter and test for that condition.

trmiv · 01/26/2005, 03:45 PM

I think I'm out of my league here. I bought this pendant just to pretty much hook it up and go. I know nothing about multimeters, or what to even do to test this stuff. I've looked at the obvious things, but now we're getting into territory I'm not completely comfortable with.

glenngreen · 01/26/2005, 05:35 PM

Since you replaced the ballast, I would bet that is where you have crossed wires somehow. I don't have one here, but IIRC there is one wire you don't use unless you have a dimmer-- have you by any chance miswired the ballast? PS: The GFCI is supposed to trip when an alternate ground is supplied (it could be your body), so that works as designed.

01/23/2005, 02:09 AM	#1
trmiv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,082	Getting shocked from my halide pendant I'm running an Aqua Medic Ocean Light pendant which I replaced the ballast on with a 250w IceCap. I have a 14K Hamilton bulb, which takes a bit to start, but usually does. (ballast buzzes for about a minute and then it starts). Anyway, I've noticed that when I touch the pendant, I get a very slight shock. It's not even enough to make me pull my hand away, but it's there. To wire the pendant to ballast, I bought one of those computer power cords, and cut the end off. The Ocean Light comes with the female end of one of those computer power cords, so the male end plugs right in. The pendant ground runs from the reflector, to the green wire, down to the grounding screw on the side of the IceCap. I would think that would ground the pendant, correctly, but I guess not. I guess the ground is just not working correctly here. So, could I just bypass the ballast grounding clip, and ground the pendant directly to screw on a wall outlet?

01/23/2005, 01:35 PM	#4
trmiv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,082	Yes, everything is three prong cord. I've checked all the connections, and the grounds are hooked up. It's plugged into one of those good power strips that indicate if it's grounded with a light (I tested that by bypassing the ground, and the light went off). The light is plugged into it's own GFCI, and all the other equipment on another GFCI. I've also just ordered a grounding probe, just in case. bulldogfish: I'm not sure what you mean when you say " to the actual supply line." __________________ Current tank: Red Sea Reefer 350 Deluxe, Avast Marine Pegleg 180 skimmer, Gyre 150, Eheim 1262 return

01/25/2005, 01:44 PM	#5
trmiv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,082	Anyone have any more advice on this? I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do, but I tried just grounding the pendant straight to different ground source. When I do that, the GFCI the light is hooked up to trips the second power is turned on. __________________ Current tank: Red Sea Reefer 350 Deluxe, Avast Marine Pegleg 180 skimmer, Gyre 150, Eheim 1262 return

01/25/2005, 07:52 PM	#8
trmiv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,082	Harmonicat: The light and ballast are brand new. I guess I'll have to borrow or buy a multimeter and see what I can find. __________________ Current tank: Red Sea Reefer 350 Deluxe, Avast Marine Pegleg 180 skimmer, Gyre 150, Eheim 1262 return

01/25/2005, 09:08 PM	#10
trmiv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,082	I know it's not grounded properly, I just can't figure out where. __________________ Current tank: Red Sea Reefer 350 Deluxe, Avast Marine Pegleg 180 skimmer, Gyre 150, Eheim 1262 return

01/23/2005, 07:15 AM	#2
bulldogfish Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central Missouri Posts: 529	trmiv Get another piece of green wire preferably and run a groun from the ballast body to the actual supply line. This should eliminate that samll electric shock. HTH

01/23/2005, 07:16 AM	#3
Harmonicat Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Naples,Fla Posts: 103	Does it have a 3 prong cord?Are the wires tight?It could be something else in the tank and your light is grounding you when you touch it.

01/25/2005, 06:41 PM	#6
Harmonicat Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Naples,Fla Posts: 103	How old is the light?Sounds like it is bad.Could be the ballast.

01/25/2005, 06:42 PM	#7
dougchambers Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,882	If you have a DMM (Digital MultiMeter) or plain multimeter, ohm out between the ballast case and the pendant (not the wire) and check for a good connection. The meter should read nearly the same as if you touch the probes together. It still sounds like a ground problem... -Doug

01/25/2005, 07:53 PM	#9
benonmsn Moved On Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 441	its not grounded properly

01/25/2005, 09:48 PM	#11
benonmsn Moved On Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 441	did u try grounding the pendant, or ballast if applicable to a ground? the housing to an outlet, or the center screw

01/25/2005, 10:02 PM	#13
trmiv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,082	Yea, like I said above I tried that, and when I do that, the GFCI trips immediately when the power comes on. I ran a ground from the pendant to a totally different outlet's ground screw. Is it safe to do that, and just not use the GFCI for the light? The tank is on a completely different GFCI, so I'd still have that. __________________ Current tank: Red Sea Reefer 350 Deluxe, Avast Marine Pegleg 180 skimmer, Gyre 150, Eheim 1262 return

01/25/2005, 10:05 PM	#14
~ChrisB~ Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Steger IL, 60475 Posts: 2,130	The pendant itself more than likely is not properly grounded to the ballast ground. If you can peek inside the pendant be sure the green wire on the 3-conductor is connected to the pendant body in some way, free from obstruction. __________________ Formerly Known As: Tank / Botr

01/25/2005, 10:06 PM	#15
~ChrisB~ Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Steger IL, 60475 Posts: 2,130	Shouldn't matter where the ground comes from. As long as it is grounded. __________________ Formerly Known As: Tank / Botr

01/25/2005, 10:08 PM	#16
~ChrisB~ Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Steger IL, 60475 Posts: 2,130	At the same time though, there should not be any voltage running through the ground anyway. I strongly reccomend that you trace out the root of the problem and find where this sray voltage is coming from. __________________ Formerly Known As: Tank / Botr

01/25/2005, 10:12 PM	#17
trmiv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,082	I took off the end off the pendant, and the wires are all as they come from the factory, and hooked up as they should be. Aqua Medic seems to make a very cleanly put together pendant, and everything is hooked up as they intended. Now, I've heard of trouble with Hamilton bulbs and not making proper contact with the sockets, and my seems to have that problem. Could that cause this? I have a new AB 20K bulb coming tomorrow, maybe I'll just try it with that bulb and see if the problem is still there. __________________ Current tank: Red Sea Reefer 350 Deluxe, Avast Marine Pegleg 180 skimmer, Gyre 150, Eheim 1262 return

01/25/2005, 10:20 PM	#18
~ChrisB~ Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Steger IL, 60475 Posts: 2,130	Problem aith the Hamiltons is that the contacts on the ends are pretty cheaply made IMO and appear to be quite thinner than the more $$$ brands. I think it's a fine idea to check the problem with the new bulb, and quite possibly it will go away. Proceed with caution though, electricty and salt water are bad news. It's not the voltage, it's the amperage. GL! __________________ Formerly Known As: Tank / Botr

01/26/2005, 12:44 PM	#19
Steve Ruddy Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Guerneville CA Posts: 558	When you feel the shock what else if anything are you touching beside the pedant. Stray voltage in the aquarium will be felt if you touch a ground. Thats why I always use ground probes. __________________ Steve Current Tank Info: 70 Gallon NgTank System (Elos copy)

01/26/2005, 12:47 PM	#20
trmiv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,082	Touching nothing but the pedant. I ordered a ground probe which should be here tomorrow. That still doesn't fix the pendant problem though. I'll see what the new bulb does today. __________________ Current tank: Red Sea Reefer 350 Deluxe, Avast Marine Pegleg 180 skimmer, Gyre 150, Eheim 1262 return

01/26/2005, 01:32 PM	#21
Hawk72 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lancaster, CA Posts: 290	I agree with Tank, you have stray voltage somewhere that shouldn't be there. Maybe a white or black wire touching metal somewhere. Inspect them closely as it can be very difficult to see. Jason __________________ Jason Current Tank Info: 135 gallon

01/26/2005, 01:39 PM	#22
trmiv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,082	Nothing is touching anywhere that I can see The wires run from the socket, right to the wiring block, and out to the cord. __________________ Current tank: Red Sea Reefer 350 Deluxe, Avast Marine Pegleg 180 skimmer, Gyre 150, Eheim 1262 return

01/26/2005, 02:32 PM	#23
Hawk72 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lancaster, CA Posts: 290	trmiv, It sounds like you have a short between the nuetral wire and the ground wire somewhere. Use a multi-meter and test for that condition. __________________ Jason Current Tank Info: 135 gallon

01/26/2005, 03:45 PM	#24
trmiv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,082	I think I'm out of my league here. I bought this pendant just to pretty much hook it up and go. I know nothing about multimeters, or what to even do to test this stuff. I've looked at the obvious things, but now we're getting into territory I'm not completely comfortable with. __________________ Current tank: Red Sea Reefer 350 Deluxe, Avast Marine Pegleg 180 skimmer, Gyre 150, Eheim 1262 return

01/26/2005, 05:35 PM	#25
glenngreen Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 60	Since you replaced the ballast, I would bet that is where you have crossed wires somehow. I don't have one here, but IIRC there is one wire you don't use unless you have a dimmer-- have you by any chance miswired the ballast? PS: The GFCI is supposed to trip when an alternate ground is supplied (it could be your body), so that works as designed. __________________ Glenn Fear is a path to the Dark Side: Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering. --- Yoda, Jedi Master, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Current Tank Info: 90-gal