Ideas needed for keeping plating Monti

Loralie · 01/23/2006, 11:31 AM

I currently have a 92 corner bow that is an SPS/Zoo/clam tank. My parameters are well within range

Nitrates 0
amonia 0
ph 8.2
calcium at 400

I run 2 250 halides and 2 VHO actanics.
The zoos, clams and several varieties of SPS that do very well. I also have a neon encrusting monti that thrives, but usually within a couple of weeks of putting monti cap or birdsnest in the tank it bleaches....I can't figure it out. I have tried large frags and small. I have tried several different colors to no avail...HELP!

Tammy3770 · 01/23/2006, 11:36 AM

alk, and mg?

yetti · 01/23/2006, 11:39 AM

I have the exact same problem. I don't know about the mg because I need to test, but my Alk always tests high. I think it's something with Instant Ocean because I tested the water the other day before I did a water change and it registered high.

Tammy3770 · 01/23/2006, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by yetti
I have the exact same problem. I don't know about the mg because I need to test, but my Alk always tests high. I think it's something with Instant Ocean because I tested the water the other day before I did a water change and it registered high.

if your alk is testing high what is your ca testing?

yetti · 01/23/2006, 11:45 AM

500......

Tammy3770 · 01/23/2006, 11:49 AM

I'm stumped,
test for nutrients and ph and everything else,
and I assume you have plenty of lighting.
but it has to be something.

MiddletonMark · 01/23/2006, 11:54 AM

What's your salinity at, and have you verified it against another measuring device?

How do you acclimate to your lights?
Are they wild or fragged corals?

finneganswake · 01/23/2006, 12:07 PM

So far, every coral that I have that has bleached was able to regain its color when I placed it in an area that received lower light. My personal belief on bleaching is that it is a by-product of the belief that all sps corals need high light and the over-illumination of many tanks--I'm going to guess that less than 10% of the people that have 400W MHs actually need them considering that experts say they are only needed in tanks that are deeper than 36". Over-illumination leads to photo-inhibition, which can be just as bad for the coral as under-illumination.

binski · 01/23/2006, 12:10 PM

Your lighting could be too intense after transport. Are you slowly aclimating the corals to your lighting scheme? Start dim and gradually move up over the course of a few weeks.

binski

yetti · 01/23/2006, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tammy3770
I'm stumped,
test for nutrients and ph and everything else,
and I assume you have plenty of lighting.
but it has to be something.

PH and everything else is always right on the button.

yetti · 01/23/2006, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MiddletonMark
What's your salinity at, and have you verified it against another measuring device?

How do you acclimate to your lights?
Are they wild or fragged corals?

1.026 and yes, that's multiple equipment. I'm redundant on everything.

I've received all frags that have had problems.

yetti · 01/23/2006, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by binski
Your lighting could be too intense after transport. Are you slowly aclimating the corals to your lighting scheme? Start dim and gradually move up over the course of a few weeks.

binski

Yeah, this is actually my last test. I don't believe I have rushed things, but it is possible. The next frag I get I'll make sure just to see.

finneganswake · 01/23/2006, 12:41 PM

To the two of you that are having bleaching problems--what is the depth of your tank and how much lighting do you have? It sounds like your water parameters are where they are supposed to be, so I'm going to have to play heretic and suggest that maybe your bleaching sps are getting too much light for their own good. I only use a 150W MH with actinic supplementation on my 50g and the colors are great--IMO, much deeper than that of most tanks of this size that use 250 or 400W MHs.

yetti · 01/23/2006, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by finneganswake
To the two of you that are having bleaching problems--what is the depth of your tank and how much lighting do you have? It sounds like your water parameters are where they are supposed to be, so I'm going to have to play heretic and suggest that maybe your bleaching sps are getting too much light for their own good. I only use a 150W MH with actinic supplementation on my 50g and the colors are great--IMO, much deeper than that of most tanks of this size that use 250 or 400W MHs.

I have a 30g, 36x12x16 with PC lighting. 130w....

finneganswake · 01/23/2006, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yetti
I have a 30g, 36x12x16 with PC lighting. 130w....

That actually might be too little lighting. I have 2x65W pc actinics on my tank and they really don't put out a whole lot of light--they're used purely as supplementation. How high in the tank are the frags that have bleached?

Loralie · 01/23/2006, 01:23 PM

All the pieces I have lost are frags from fellow reefers. Most of the frags have come from lighting equal to mine. I have 3 maxi 1200's in th etank for flow as well as a 30 gallon sump. I will try a longer acclimation and start in a protected area to see if that might be it. As I stated though all the others do very well. I have several Milli's, encrusting monti, calli tort, miami orchid, a.nana, a couple of staghorns...ect

donfishy76 · 01/23/2006, 01:24 PM

I have had monti's bleach in the past, mostly due to (in my calculations) heat problems. I left them in the tank and after a few months, colors came back with no trouble.
Now, some Monti's can smother themselves with excess slime, so be sure to have a current going in there, at least somewhat.

Maybe check for monti-eating nudibranchs, ...

yetti · 01/23/2006, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by finneganswake
That actually might be too little lighting. I have 2x65W pc actinics on my tank and they really don't put out a whole lot of light--they're used purely as supplementation. How high in the tank are the frags that have bleached?

Top 1/3 of the tank....

finneganswake · 01/23/2006, 02:18 PM

Hmm... I'm a little stumped, but that's mostly because all of my bleaching events were taken care of by lower lighting, but that doesn't seem to be the case with yours.

MiddletonMark · 01/23/2006, 02:20 PM

Do you have a numerical value on the Alk ... or just `high'?

If Ca is 500, seems odd that Alk would be elevated [unless SG is elevated]. Just my take, though.

yetti · 01/23/2006, 02:33 PM

Unfortunately it's just "high"....I need to get a kit for the value, but's weird is my frag tank, 10g always has the Alk at "normal". So that rules out the type of tests.

BTW....I'm not dosing with anything..

finneganswake · 01/23/2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yetti
BTW....I'm not dosing with anything..

This could easily be the problem. I know people who've managed to keep softies without dosing anything (although they had to do large water changes very often to do so), but I've never known anyone who was able to keep stonies for a long period of time without some form of dosing calcium and alkalinity, whether it's a calcium reactor or liquid/powder additives. These corals just take too much out of the water for you to be able to go without dosing.

yetti · 01/23/2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by finneganswake
This could easily be the problem. I know people who've managed to keep softies without dosing anything (although they had to do large water changes very often to do so), but I've never known anyone who was able to keep stonies for a long period of time without some form of dosing calcium and alkalinity, whether it's a calcium reactor or liquid/powder additives. These corals just take too much out of the water for you to be able to go without dosing.

But if my Alk is always high and my calcium is on the upper range, why would I dose? I was told that I didn't need to unless these numbers were changing.

finneganswake · 01/25/2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by yetti
But if my Alk is always high and my calcium is on the upper range, why would I dose? I was told that I didn't need to unless these numbers were changing.

Because, frankly, I don't trust a test kit that only says "high" or "normal." The odds that these values are actually staying as stable as you need them to be--my alkalinity doesn't vary by more than .2 from week to week, and I can usually keep it spot on--is pretty unlikely without some kind of supplementation, as this would imply that your stonies are taking nothing out of the system.

twon8 · 01/25/2006, 11:40 AM

i agree, if you have sps and clams in the tank, they will deplete your calcium and alkalinity fast. I think randy holmes farley says you would need to change 30-50% of the water daily to keep up with the alk and ca demand in a reef tank.

01/23/2006, 11:31 AM	#1
Loralie Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: minnesota Posts: 568	Ideas needed for keeping plating Monti I currently have a 92 corner bow that is an SPS/Zoo/clam tank. My parameters are well within range Nitrates 0 amonia 0 ph 8.2 calcium at 400 I run 2 250 halides and 2 VHO actanics. The zoos, clams and several varieties of SPS that do very well. I also have a neon encrusting monti that thrives, but usually within a couple of weeks of putting monti cap or birdsnest in the tank it bleaches....I can't figure it out. I have tried large frags and small. I have tried several different colors to no avail...HELP!

01/23/2006, 11:36 AM	#2
Tammy3770 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 315	alk, and mg? __________________ I can only do so much before I decide I've done enough Current Tank Info: 100 us gallon (60"x18"x24") yeay!!

01/23/2006, 11:39 AM	#3
yetti Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Front Royal, VA Posts: 183	I have the exact same problem. I don't know about the mg because I need to test, but my Alk always tests high. I think it's something with Instant Ocean because I tested the water the other day before I did a water change and it registered high. __________________ Our New Tank Site is Up!!! Feel free to check it out.... Current Tank Info: 30g Mixed Reef, 150g Mixed Reef, 25g frag tank

01/23/2006, 11:45 AM	#5
yetti Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Front Royal, VA Posts: 183	500...... __________________ Our New Tank Site is Up!!! Feel free to check it out.... Current Tank Info: 30g Mixed Reef, 150g Mixed Reef, 25g frag tank

01/23/2006, 11:49 AM	#6
Tammy3770 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 315	I'm stumped, test for nutrients and ph and everything else, and I assume you have plenty of lighting. but it has to be something. __________________ I can only do so much before I decide I've done enough Current Tank Info: 100 us gallon (60"x18"x24") yeay!!

01/23/2006, 11:54 AM	#7
MiddletonMark Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 14,441	What's your salinity at, and have you verified it against another measuring device? How do you acclimate to your lights? Are they wild or fragged corals? __________________ read a lot, think for yourself Current Tank Info: 58g stony reef [250w10k, 250w 20k MH, 2x vho act, Octopus150, 6060 + 6000] ; 60g mixed tub

01/23/2006, 12:07 PM	#8
finneganswake Moved On Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,197	So far, every coral that I have that has bleached was able to regain its color when I placed it in an area that received lower light. My personal belief on bleaching is that it is a by-product of the belief that all sps corals need high light and the over-illumination of many tanks--I'm going to guess that less than 10% of the people that have 400W MHs actually need them considering that experts say they are only needed in tanks that are deeper than 36". Over-illumination leads to photo-inhibition, which can be just as bad for the coral as under-illumination.

01/23/2006, 12:10 PM	#9
binski Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Indialantic, FL Posts: 175	Your lighting could be too intense after transport. Are you slowly aclimating the corals to your lighting scheme? Start dim and gradually move up over the course of a few weeks. binski

01/23/2006, 12:41 PM	#13
finneganswake Moved On Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,197	To the two of you that are having bleaching problems--what is the depth of your tank and how much lighting do you have? It sounds like your water parameters are where they are supposed to be, so I'm going to have to play heretic and suggest that maybe your bleaching sps are getting too much light for their own good. I only use a 150W MH with actinic supplementation on my 50g and the colors are great--IMO, much deeper than that of most tanks of this size that use 250 or 400W MHs.

01/23/2006, 01:23 PM	#16
Loralie Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: minnesota Posts: 568	All the pieces I have lost are frags from fellow reefers. Most of the frags have come from lighting equal to mine. I have 3 maxi 1200's in th etank for flow as well as a 30 gallon sump. I will try a longer acclimation and start in a protected area to see if that might be it. As I stated though all the others do very well. I have several Milli's, encrusting monti, calli tort, miami orchid, a.nana, a couple of staghorns...ect

01/23/2006, 01:24 PM	#17
donfishy76 Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 667	I have had monti's bleach in the past, mostly due to (in my calculations) heat problems. I left them in the tank and after a few months, colors came back with no trouble. Now, some Monti's can smother themselves with excess slime, so be sure to have a current going in there, at least somewhat. Maybe check for monti-eating nudibranchs, ...

01/23/2006, 02:18 PM	#19
finneganswake Moved On Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,197	Hmm... I'm a little stumped, but that's mostly because all of my bleaching events were taken care of by lower lighting, but that doesn't seem to be the case with yours.

01/23/2006, 02:20 PM	#20
MiddletonMark Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 14,441	Do you have a numerical value on the Alk ... or just `high'? If Ca is 500, seems odd that Alk would be elevated [unless SG is elevated]. Just my take, though. __________________ read a lot, think for yourself Current Tank Info: 58g stony reef [250w10k, 250w 20k MH, 2x vho act, Octopus150, 6060 + 6000] ; 60g mixed tub

01/23/2006, 02:33 PM	#21
yetti Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Front Royal, VA Posts: 183	Unfortunately it's just "high"....I need to get a kit for the value, but's weird is my frag tank, 10g always has the Alk at "normal". So that rules out the type of tests. BTW....I'm not dosing with anything.. __________________ Our New Tank Site is Up!!! Feel free to check it out.... Current Tank Info: 30g Mixed Reef, 150g Mixed Reef, 25g frag tank

01/25/2006, 11:40 AM	#25
twon8 Formally registered membe Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: slightly sw of richmond, va Posts: 5,920	i agree, if you have sps and clams in the tank, they will deplete your calcium and alkalinity fast. I think randy holmes farley says you would need to change 30-50% of the water daily to keep up with the alk and ca demand in a reef tank.