Torn Between T5 and MH rig

[Shadowramy]

Everyday I keep changing my mind. I am finally down to my final two choices and just torn between the following:

2-250W 10000K Ushio – IceCap ballast with
Sunlight Supply 48" 2-54W T5 HO Fluorescents

OR

IceCap 48" Retrofit: 4-54W T5 HO Fluorescents with
Sunlight Supply 48" Retrofit: 2-54W T5 HO Fluorescents

I have a 75g tank.
Want to keep softies (lots), LPS, clams and some SPS.
I am not worried about heat
I want good coreline purples and pinks
I want to keep plenty of mushrooms (even if I need to put them in shadows)

My biggest concern is burning up my softies.
I do like the glitter lines but can do without.
I want a white with only a hint of blue display (no yellow).
Growth is important but display is more important

Please help me decide.

[Ti]

MH
ALL the way.

[horkn]

i think 2 250s is a bit too much on a 75g

but theres a local reefer in my club with 1 250 and 1 400 mh on his 75g.. that seems way overdone..

after seeing a presentation done by a guy who sets up and maintains HUGE and custom tanks what a 250w, and a 400w icecap can do I see all these 180s with 3x400 and other crazy stuff and it makes me wonder how much light they really need vs what they can do quite well with. it makes me wonder when too much is too much.


you could keep all that you wnt with a t5ho setup as well, and use a lot less energy, and have lower utilitity bills

[d.can82]

I guess depending on the shrooms, from what I've read alot of the lower light ones will just melt under t5. Alot more difficult getting shadow from a linear light source rather then from a focused fixed source such as a mh bulb. Higher light loving ricordias and such are supposed to be alright, but the reds, watermelons and blues (smooth) shrooms will have a tough time.

[AquaNewb]

Hey guys,

Just a quick question. I'm setting up a 75gal mixed reef. I have two 175 14k Halides. Do i need the added blue lighting from fluorescents or compacts. Guess I don't know what they are actually for to be honest.

Please Help me out.

Thanks

[phishlet]

Go for the MH. Love the shimmer lines especially. I know people say you can get shimmer out of T5 but its just not the same.

As far as whether 2 250 lamps is overkill on a 75 gallon I guess that is subjective and basied on how much heat you want to deal with. I run 2 250 watt lamps over a 46 bowfront. The lamps are about 18 inches off the water surface though.

The Ushio is a nice lamp but is a lamp high in Par too. You could get away with a higher Kelvin lamp (usually less Par) which would be less intense.

[Horace]

I dont think either choice is optimal if you want mainly softies. Softies will do better under less light than either of those choices, but the MH is probably a better choice because there will be more shadows and good places to put lower light corals. T5s, especially one with the icecap ballast, are best for SPS. Even LPS are touch and go under that intense of light. This would be on of the only times I will steer away from T5. But also I would advise no more than 175w of halide either. You would probably be good with 150w halides for a mainly softy tank.

Also a bit of advice. Choose either SPS or softies, not both. They conditions that are good for one, is not good for the other. Also many softies will emit toxins into the water that will actually either damage or significantly stunt the growth of the SPS. It sounds like you want softies more than anything so go with less light and call it a day.

Cheers!

[orlenz]

2 250 w would be a lot, but since your going to use icecaps, that will dim it down a bit, you should be okay IMO.

[bigfalcon36]

i started a year ago with 8x54 watt T5 on my 75 and i thought it was unreal, but I had those for about 5 months and someone gave me a crap load of money for my lights and I got 2x250 MHs (icecap ballasts run hamilton 14ks).

The MH a far and away better to the eye and everything has kept growing the same.

GET THE METAL HALIDES, if you get the 14k's or 20ks you wont need any supplementation

[dvanacker]

The question is did you 8 bulb setup on the 75g have quality individual reflectors??

With SLR single light reflectors you can't even fit 8 bulbs over a standard 75g 18" wide tank.

I agree that both of those options are too much light for softies and especially the T5 setup because the light is very uniform and you will have no place to put the shrooms.

Try 175w MH or less T5's for a LPS/Softie tank.

[bigfalcon36]

my particular T5 setup didn't have individual reflectors, but still did the job using ATI bulbs.

my tank with T5


with metal halides

[Horace]

Bigfalcon, if your T5 didnt have individual reflectors then your perspective is null. Im sorry to say it in such a blunt way but the difference that individual reflectors make is IMMENSE. You are comparing apples to oranges my friend. A 4 bulb setup with individual reflectors and an icecap ballast would have blown your 8 bulb setup out of the water. It sounds crazy but its true.

[horkn]

Originally posted by d.can82
I guess depending on the shrooms, from what I've read alot of the lower light ones will just melt under t5. Alot more difficult getting shadow from a linear light source rather then from a focused fixed source such as a mh bulb. Higher light loving ricordias and such are supposed to be alright, but the reds, watermelons and blues (smooth) shrooms will have a tough time.

well, i have the frilly, purple, and watermelon shrooms, and they all thrive under my t5ho, at the top even. the only ones i had problems keeping were the green striped ones. those melted nearlya s soon as the lights came on

[horkn]

Originally posted by Horace
Bigfalcon, if your T5 didnt have individual reflectors then your perspective is null. Im sorry to say it in such a blunt way but the difference that individual reflectors make is IMMENSE. You are comparing apples to oranges my friend. A 4 bulb setup with individual reflectors and an icecap ballast would have blown your 8 bulb setup out of the water. It sounds crazy but its true.

i agree.

i once took all my reflectors off for cleaning. and left the lights on for comparison. big difference. my canopy is all white inside, so thats probably as effective as a non parabolic ind. reflectors

[bigfalcon36]

i was just trying to help the guy out with an opinion...not get grilled for putting something down. You guys should just place your opinion and offer some help rather than sit around and wait for someone to say something you diagree with and then post. Now I get the understanding why so many people are leaving this site to go to other sites. The reason I posted was to give BWilfong what I thought was helpful info from my experience.

Horace and horkn you two still havent reccomended anything for this person to buy for his tank. You guys have just agreed that I was wrong and that's not what he is looking for.

[Grandfinale03]

I think a standard 100 watt lightbulb work work GREAT!

Ok seriously now I have been shopping for Lights for my 65 for a while. There is a nice difference when you have a retrofit with the icecap reflectors vs one without them. I like the flexibility the T-5 can offer me in comparison to the metal halides. If it's too bright I can take a reflector off one by one. And in 2 displays that were next to each other, I couldn't see a huge difference between one or the other.

[Horace]

Originally posted by bigfalcon36
Horace and horkn you two still havent reccomended anything for this person to buy for his tank. You guys have just agreed that I was wrong and that's not what he is looking for.

I think you need to scroll up....I give my recommendation in my above post. Also I think you need to read what I said again. I wasnt name calling or anything, but I was pointing out a very big flaw in what you were saying. You simply cannot even attempt to compare T5s to anything if they dont have individual reflectors. Your perspective is much too skewed because of it and I dont want this guy to make a decision based on innacurate data. So take a chill man. Just because somone disagrees with you doesnt mean you have to get all huffy.

[Shadowramy]

So what about going with IceCap 4x54w T5 and 110w of VHO?

aslo, what give the best Coralline Algae growth of purples and pinks, MH or T5?

[backlash]

I like the flexibility of t5...

[dvanacker]

IMHO opinion....4 48" t5HO overdriven on a 660 is still to much for a LPS/SOFTIE tank......

that light would be good for an LPS/SPS tank.

I would try 4 normally diven T5HO bulbs.....or buy the six just incase you want SPS in the future and just use 4 for now.

[Neal Flomenberg]

I'm new (planning a first 75 gallon reef) and this thread has confused me a lot.

Since I'm new, I'd like to start out easy and work my way up as I gained experience, which I thought meant softies first.

I had been under the impression that metal halides produced maximum output and that T5s were newer, cheaper to run, generated less heat, and were the thing that came closest to the metal halide gold standard especially for species that require a lot of light (which I realize is not most softies).

Now I'm getting the impression that 4-6 48" 54 W T5s over a 75 gallon tank may be too much light - more than metal halides. This convinces me that, despite a lot of reading, I have a lot to learn. The metal halide retrofits I've seen come with power comfact or standard/VHO fluorescents and lead to as much as 550 W or more, compared to 324 W from the T5s.

I would prefer T5s as I'm planning to have a wood canopy and I'd prefer to avoid a chiller.

Can you help me maintain the flexibility that I'd like in a first tank? ICE CAP vs Tek? Eliminating the reflectors - some or all? PFO makes a much cheaper retrofit that can handle 6 bulbs (with no reflector). Should I consider this or consider adding a single (less efficient) reflector to the PFO as a solution. Up until now, I was focusing on maximum light and optimal reflectors. Now I'm not so sure.

Any help clearing up this confusion would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Neal

[dvanacker]

Now I'm confused with your post...hahah.

First decide what you want to keep.....then decide on the lighting.

For a standard 75g 18" wide tank. 4 bulb T5HO setup normally driven with quality reflectors for a LPS/SOFTIE tank. 6 bulbs for a LPS/SPS/Clam tank.

Unless your gonna over drive with ICECAP then 4 bulb for a LPS/SPS/Clam tank and 6 bulbs for SPS dominant with SPS on the sand.

For bulbs go with a mix of DD,ATI,Geismann Aquablue and Actinic+ bulbs....maybe a GE daylight in the mix

[Shadowramy]

So basically the consensus is to go with 2x175/150 MH and VHO or get rid of the softies and go with T5HO?

[brad23]

I'm going with two 250w bulbs over my 75g, but the lights are going to be 14 inches off the waters surface. I'm going with 14k SE bulbs, I think you will be ok with 250w bulbs as long as you keep them high and stay away from HQI bulbs.

MH are the way to go if you want to keep a really mixed reef, if I was going to put SPS only in my tank I would buy T5. I might still get rid of all my softies and go with a LPS/SPS tank. Any moderate to lower light LPS doesn't seem to do well under T5 either.

[Horace]

Brad I think your being a BIT too critical of T5s. While to an extent you are correct, I think you overstate how LPS/softies do in T5. Some softies will do just fine in T5, but there are some that dont. Same goes for LPS. My LPS has loved my 6x54w normally driven so far. For that matter the only things that have shown any negative reactions are my sacrophytons. One got burned a bit on the top half, the other is doing fine but doesnt extend as often as it used to. Other that that all is well. My SPS sure have appreciated the extra light I will tell you that. I am still thinking of upgrading 4 out of 6 to an icecap ballast though for even more light for my SPS.

Neal, if you want SPS and a good shot at a mixed tank do not overdrive the bulbs. It will be a bit much light for some stuff, but it will be plenty for quite a few SPS as well. Halides are good because they create "hotspots" which are areas of intense light while leaving good shaded areas for softies and other low light corals as well. T5s dont leave many shadows because they light the tank much more evenly than MH does. If you are looking for a mixed tank, go with MH 250w is plenty and will allow you to have any coral you want so long as you provide enough over hangs and shadows for lower light stuff, while still haveing plenty of light for any SPS/Clam. However, heat could be an issue. T5s if you overdrive are GREAT for pure SPS and likely will cause you to run into more problems with some LPS/Softies (remember all LPS/softies are not afraid of the light).