This is why you don't run your RO right to your autotopoff

Wiskey · 02/14/2006, 10:33 AM

Two nights ago I filled the autotopoff container for my 15 gallon tank, it was empty and the water level in the sump was about 2 inches down (no big deal). Last night when I came home I noticed every coral in the tank closed. I started looking in the tank, at the fish, pluggs, then finally under the stand searching for the problem. I wasn't sure there was a problem, just that it wasn't normal to have everything closed.

My sump was compleatly full, to the brim, there was about 1 gallon of water that spilled out of the sump and into the bottom of the stand and the topoff container that I just filled (usually takes 10 days to use) is empty. I mix 3 TSP baked baking soda with the topoff too. Ph is high, Alk is sky high, and salinity is about 3 points low.

The cause? A peice of plastic that has been floating around in my sump for a while jammed between the glass and float valve while it was filling preventing the floatvalve from shutting the water flow off.

Had I plummed this right into the RO, that would have been a 100 gallon mess, and a lot of dead critters.

Everything should be fine, just a warning to everyone making an auto-topoff.

Happy reefing,
Whiskey

bheron · 02/14/2006, 10:56 AM

Wow. What a mess. I completely agree with you. I also refuse to run my RODI when Im not home or asleep for that same reason.

integlikewhoa · 02/14/2006, 11:09 AM

I added a shut off valve right before the float valve so i can turn it on and walk away and turn it off later. Have never had it stick but no i wouldnt leave it on for days or nights (altho i have forgot about it a few times).

Sound like an oporator error here also. "A peice of plastic that has been floating around in my sump for a while". Should have be removed "awhile" ago.

Nabber86 · 02/14/2006, 11:21 AM

I have 2 float switches in series. The primary is switch "Normally Open" and the secondary switch (located 1/2-inch higher in the sump) is "Normally Closed". This way if the primary switch sticks in the on (closed) position, the secondary switch opens and cuts the circuit when the water gets too high.

Float switches are cheap and I am thinking of adding a third switch to the system.

Wiskey · 02/14/2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by integlikewhoa

Sound like an oporator error here also. "A peice of plastic that has been floating around in my sump for a while". Should have be removed "awhile" ago.

No doubt, operator error for sure, but everyone slips from time to time, and having a small tank for topoff rather than a city water supply midigates the risk.

Caution pays,
Whiskey

The Reefer91 · 02/14/2006, 11:32 AM

how do you run your top-off. people keep talking about float valves. do you need other equipment to? i was planning a gravity-fed top-off. but if i could get an explanation, i'd try a different way.

Amphiprion · 02/14/2006, 11:38 AM

Auto topoffs are nice, but this is exactly why I like a greater degree of user control (i.e. manually dump some water in the sump) than these devices. But, the downside to this is that you must be around often enough to do so (or have the back to do it). I just can't trust a piece of equipment such as that to control so vital a parameter as well as I can--there are too many variables and possibilities to account for.

Hal · 02/14/2006, 11:41 AM

Yup, I'm in the process of setting up my auto-topoff. I'm planning on the Spectrapure which includes an electronic float switch hooked up to a solenoid that feeds my RO and a "float" float switch on the output of the RO into the sump. I think I'm going to add a second electronic float switch hooked to a solenoid on the input of the RO to turn the feed water off to the RO when the switch trips.

Yeah, it'll be an extra $80-100, but I've already flooded my house a couple of times, and believe me, not having to suffer my wife's (righteous/rightful) wrath is well worth the $80-100.

I think I'm going to also put an electronic timer on the faucet output that will only feed water to the solenoid(s) for 4 hours a day. Yep, quadruple redundancy, but we've got the timer already (for our lawn before we put in a sprinkler system), so I might as well use it.

Have I mentioned the warped maple floor in our hallway because of my past errors?

The Reefer91 · 02/14/2006, 11:48 AM

I just looked up the spectrpure liquid level controller which can control resevoirs. i think i'll go with this

mojodeli · 02/14/2006, 12:23 PM

I run my RODI to a rubbermaid container. From the container I use my LitermeterIII to pump the water into the tank. Foolproof top off.

Wiskey · 02/14/2006, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Reefer91
how do you run your top-off. people keep talking about float valves. do you need other equipment to? i was planning a gravity-fed top-off. but if i could get an explanation, i'd try a different way.

That is it, I use a kent float valve, have a 4 gallon bucket with a tube comming out the bottom, the bucket sits higher than the sump and the water line runs from the bucket to the float valve. Cost about $20 to build.

Whiskey

charlesgage · 02/14/2006, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hal
Yup, I'm in the process of setting up my auto-topoff. I'm planning on the Spectrapure which includes an electronic float switch hooked up to a solenoid that feeds my RO and a "float" float switch on the output of the RO into the sump. I think I'm going to add a second electronic float switch hooked to a solenoid on the input of the RO to turn the feed water off to the RO when the switch trips.

Yeah, it'll be an extra $80-100, but I've already flooded my house a couple of times, and believe me, not having to suffer my wife's (righteous/rightful) wrath is well worth the $80-100.

I think I'm going to also put an electronic timer on the faucet output that will only feed water to the solenoid(s) for 4 hours a day. Yep, quadruple redundancy, but we've got the timer already (for our lawn before we put in a sprinkler system), so I might as well use it.

Have I mentioned the warped maple floor in our hallway because of my past errors?

He he, my wife stays at home and I do all the maintenance on the house and tank. When water spills she really can't say anything to the guy who pays for, fixes, and refinishes the floors. Though i must say on my next tank i am going to build a decorative acrylic basin to set the stand in and the plumb that into the main drain in the house, i am personally sick of water all over.

Hal · 02/15/2006, 11:42 AM

I just found these in another thread:

top-off.com
autotopoff.com

Here's my comments from the other thread:

Here's what it appears to me:

top-off.com:
auto-topoff basic set $30
solenoid valve $27.50
total $57.50

comment: Is a double switch system. Best price, but looks a little DIY.

autotopoff.com
doubleswitch controller $50
solenoid valve $35
total $85

comment: Is a double switch system. Looks less DIY than top-off.com, but still not quite what I expect from commercial grade.

spectrapure.com
single liquid level controller $87

comment: includes solenoid valve. Is only a SINGLE switch system. Appears to be commercial quality, but price is also highest.

shoman89 · 02/15/2006, 11:57 AM

I have a battery powered timer on my RO/DI that is set to run for 45 minutes every 12 hours and the RO/DI runs into a float valve in my sump. 45 minutes in just long enough to top off my system. I have run this way for 2.5 years and it works great. I am considering runing this setup through a Kalk reactor also.

-JeffP

jarhed · 02/15/2006, 12:05 PM

Good stuff!!!

My RODI goes into an 18gal bin with a Kent Float Valve, then my little aqualifter pump takes water (as told to by the float switch in the sump) to the tank.

Good post!!!

02/14/2006, 10:33 AM	#1
Wiskey Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fallbrook, CA Posts: 3,049	This is why you don't run your RO right to your autotopoff Two nights ago I filled the autotopoff container for my 15 gallon tank, it was empty and the water level in the sump was about 2 inches down (no big deal). Last night when I came home I noticed every coral in the tank closed. I started looking in the tank, at the fish, pluggs, then finally under the stand searching for the problem. I wasn't sure there was a problem, just that it wasn't normal to have everything closed. My sump was compleatly full, to the brim, there was about 1 gallon of water that spilled out of the sump and into the bottom of the stand and the topoff container that I just filled (usually takes 10 days to use) is empty. I mix 3 TSP baked baking soda with the topoff too. Ph is high, Alk is sky high, and salinity is about 3 points low. The cause? A peice of plastic that has been floating around in my sump for a while jammed between the glass and float valve while it was filling preventing the floatvalve from shutting the water flow off. Had I plummed this right into the RO, that would have been a 100 gallon mess, and a lot of dead critters. Everything should be fine, just a warning to everyone making an auto-topoff. Happy reefing, Whiskey __________________ This video shows 15 months of coral growth in my tank in a 30 second timelapse: https://youtu.be/bF6C57aTDEo

02/14/2006, 10:56 AM	#2
bheron Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Valley Forge, PA Posts: 2,655	Wow. What a mess. I completely agree with you. I also refuse to run my RODI when Im not home or asleep for that same reason. __________________ Bryan Current Tank Info: 220 since Nov 2005

02/14/2006, 11:09 AM	#3
integlikewhoa Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 1,381	I added a shut off valve right before the float valve so i can turn it on and walk away and turn it off later. Have never had it stick but no i wouldnt leave it on for days or nights (altho i have forgot about it a few times). Sound like an oporator error here also. "A peice of plastic that has been floating around in my sump for a while". Should have be removed "awhile" ago. __________________ I think of one later. Current Tank Info: 28G JBJ Nano for sale

02/14/2006, 11:32 AM	#6
The Reefer91 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 1,250	how do you run your top-off. people keep talking about float valves. do you need other equipment to? i was planning a gravity-fed top-off. but if i could get an explanation, i'd try a different way. __________________ Dan "Every day we fade little by little, 'till there's nothing left of us but the lies we've sown." Current Tank Info: 20g L display: 2x65watt Coralife light, Octopus 150 needle wheel protein skimmer, 1 Koralia 2 and 2 powersweeps, and a DIY sump/fuge.....120G in the works!!!

02/14/2006, 11:38 AM	#7
Amphiprion Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 6,611	Auto topoffs are nice, but this is exactly why I like a greater degree of user control (i.e. manually dump some water in the sump) than these devices. But, the downside to this is that you must be around often enough to do so (or have the back to do it). I just can't trust a piece of equipment such as that to control so vital a parameter as well as I can--there are too many variables and possibilities to account for. __________________ You've done it now, haven't you? Current Tank Info: 40g breeder patch reef w/ seagrass; 2-250w XM 10K; Vortech MP40wES & MP10wES; BM Curve 7 skimmer; carbon & occasional GFO

02/14/2006, 11:21 AM	#4
Nabber86 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Stalewater Kansas Posts: 408	I have 2 float switches in series. The primary is switch "Normally Open" and the secondary switch (located 1/2-inch higher in the sump) is "Normally Closed". This way if the primary switch sticks in the on (closed) position, the secondary switch opens and cuts the circuit when the water gets too high. Float switches are cheap and I am thinking of adding a third switch to the system.

02/14/2006, 11:41 AM	#8
Hal Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 1,889	Yup, I'm in the process of setting up my auto-topoff. I'm planning on the Spectrapure which includes an electronic float switch hooked up to a solenoid that feeds my RO and a "float" float switch on the output of the RO into the sump. I think I'm going to add a second electronic float switch hooked to a solenoid on the input of the RO to turn the feed water off to the RO when the switch trips. Yeah, it'll be an extra $80-100, but I've already flooded my house a couple of times, and believe me, not having to suffer my wife's (righteous/rightful) wrath is well worth the $80-100. I think I'm going to also put an electronic timer on the faucet output that will only feed water to the solenoid(s) for 4 hours a day. Yep, quadruple redundancy, but we've got the timer already (for our lawn before we put in a sprinkler system), so I might as well use it. Have I mentioned the warped maple floor in our hallway because of my past errors? __________________ Some days it's not even worth chewing through the restraints. Current Tank Info: 250g starphire: 72x28x30, BeanAnimal drain with an oversized non-durso emergency drain, 4 inch DSB, 3x Reefbreeders Value LED fixtures, SWC/MSX 300A skimmer, Geo kalk reactor, 3 Vortechs w/bb, carbon reactor, and a RKL Last edited by Hal; 02/14/2006 at 12:02 PM.

02/14/2006, 11:48 AM	#9
The Reefer91 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 1,250	I just looked up the spectrpure liquid level controller which can control resevoirs. i think i'll go with this __________________ Dan "Every day we fade little by little, 'till there's nothing left of us but the lies we've sown." Current Tank Info: 20g L display: 2x65watt Coralife light, Octopus 150 needle wheel protein skimmer, 1 Koralia 2 and 2 powersweeps, and a DIY sump/fuge.....120G in the works!!!

02/14/2006, 12:23 PM	#10
mojodeli Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Gilbert, Arizona Posts: 2,083	I run my RODI to a rubbermaid container. From the container I use my LitermeterIII to pump the water into the tank. Foolproof top off. __________________ Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. Current Tank Info: 24g NanoCube - Royal Gramma, 20lbs of LR, zoos, shrooms, torch and hammer

02/15/2006, 11:42 AM	#13
Hal Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 1,889	I just found these in another thread: top-off.com autotopoff.com Here's my comments from the other thread: Here's what it appears to me: top-off.com: auto-topoff basic set $30 solenoid valve $27.50 total $57.50 comment: Is a double switch system. Best price, but looks a little DIY. autotopoff.com doubleswitch controller $50 solenoid valve $35 total $85 comment: Is a double switch system. Looks less DIY than top-off.com, but still not quite what I expect from commercial grade. spectrapure.com single liquid level controller $87 comment: includes solenoid valve. Is only a SINGLE switch system. Appears to be commercial quality, but price is also highest.

02/15/2006, 11:57 AM	#14
shoman89 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: West Chester, Ohio Posts: 157	I have a battery powered timer on my RO/DI that is set to run for 45 minutes every 12 hours and the RO/DI runs into a float valve in my sump. 45 minutes in just long enough to top off my system. I have run this way for 2.5 years and it works great. I am considering runing this setup through a Kalk reactor also. -JeffP

02/15/2006, 12:05 PM	#15
jarhed Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,638	Good stuff!!! My RODI goes into an 18gal bin with a Kent Float Valve, then my little aqualifter pump takes water (as told to by the float switch in the sump) to the tank. Good post!!!