I think I have ich, need confirmation from experienced hobbyst.

kingtoad · 02/22/2006, 11:28 AM

I noticed my tang started scraping himself against rocks and sand the other day. I heard this was a sympton of Ich. I looked closely and didn't see any tiny white dots on him.

I looked at him last night, and it appears he is really dirty. It looks like some of the algae on the rocks and other stuff stuck onto him while he was scraping against them.

I look at it today, and I see a combination of white dots and dirtyness that I think is from rocks/sand... or it could be the infection. A lot of the dots are brown too.

Do I have ich?

BurntOutReefer · 02/22/2006, 11:34 AM

take him out and QT him asap. If it is ich, it'll show up very soon and you dont want the rest of your tankmates to get it

Shooter7 · 02/22/2006, 11:39 AM

Best approach would be to pull all fish out and put into QT and leave the display fallow for up to 6 weeks.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...osalinity.html

Also go to the fish disease forum and read the stickied threads at the top of the forum.

pvtschultz · 02/22/2006, 11:41 AM

YTs can also get black ich which will give them that dirty look. I have managed to get rid of ich while all fish were in the tank but other's results will vary of course.

I only had a 55 gallon tank with 4 fish: 1 Yellow Tang, 1 Royal Gramma, and 2 A. ocellaris clowns. They all pretty much got it. I started crushing garlic and adding the juice to their food. I fed a lot of Nori for the tang soaked with garlic juice. It slowly went away. I think that the final straw was a couple very large water changes during a phyto outbreak of 90% or larger and the final straw to the phyto was a UV sterilizer which might have also had something to do with the ich never reoccuring. It has been over a year since the initial outbreak without any reoccurance. Fish can fight it off natually but they must be healthy in order to do so. Putting ocean going creatures in glass cages isn't exactly condusive to good health so light stocking and proper nutrition along with good water quality are all neccessary to ward off infections.

cw150 · 02/22/2006, 01:47 PM

...a 1 month old tank is probably too young for a tang. Your tank's parameters probably are not stable at this point.

kingtoad · 02/22/2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cw150
...a 1 month old tank is probably too young for a tang. Your tank's parameters probably are not stable at this point.

Most likely, and the Tang is probably too small for the tank anyway. However, I did not have a choice.

But what's done is done, and I feel this is irrelevant for that matter.

Shooter7 · 02/22/2006, 02:25 PM

May not be irrelevant. I'm no specialist on what the effects of unstable water parameters are on a tang, but it could be that this could cause the fish to have decreased ability to fight off infection or parasites, or just cause it to be stressed overall. I don't know the specifics, but could be possible. At any rate, hope all turns out ok. What size tank are we talking about anyway?

kingtoad · 02/22/2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shooter7
May not be irrelevant. I'm no specialist on what the effects of unstable water parameters are on a tang, but it could be that this could cause the fish to have decreased ability to fight off infection or parasites, or just cause it to be stressed overall. I don't know the specifics, but could be possible. At any rate, hope all turns out ok. What size tank are we talking about anyway?

It is irrelevant, because I have ich, and I cannot reverse what can be done to prevent that--like I said, what's done is done.

It's a 60 gallon tank.

My parameters:

Specific Gravity: 1.023
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 50
PH: 8.0
Temp: 75

Shooter7 · 02/22/2006, 02:39 PM

ooo yeah, looks like water change time to reduce those nitrates. And I know I keep my tank at 80 - 81 degrees. Others might chime in on that as I think there are alot of opinions, but that's where I keep mine.

kingtoad · 02/22/2006, 02:43 PM

Yes, I beleive I either have faulty heaters or faulty thermometer. My water is pretty warm, but my Thermometer says 75. However, my heaters are set to 85.

I'm going to buy another thermometer to check it today just in case.

I also do weekly water changes of 10%. Maybe I'll do 30% this weekend.

kingtoad · 02/22/2006, 03:00 PM

Thanks for the input, everyone. I appreciate it.

Do you find "Ruby Reef - Kick-Ich" any effective?

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_....asp?ast=&key=

Holmie_D_Klown · 02/22/2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kingtoad
Thanks for the input, everyone. I appreciate it.

Do you find "Ruby Reef - Kick-Ich" any effective?

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_....asp?ast=&key=

I haven't had any success with the "reef safe" ich remedies like Kick Ich. Most people say its a waste of money, although I have heard that it worked for a few people. Everybody wants an easy solution, but with Ich there is not such thing.

pvtschultz · 02/22/2006, 03:48 PM

I too had little or no success with the reef safe additives. If you do not have corals or inverts, you may be able to slowly reduce the SG of your tank down to 1.020 or lower which will prevent the ich from reproducing. Most LFSs will keep the SG at 1.020 for that reason. You'll need to do this slowly over the course of a week or so as to no further stress the fish. I have heard of ultra low SG treatments (1.015 or lower) but I'm not an expert on the subject manner. This will have negative concenquences on any invertibrate but you may be better able to fight off the ich.

My plan:
-reduce the SG to 1.010-1.015 if you have no corals of value (you shouldn't)
-do so by doing water changes with water that is at about 1.010-1.012, 10% at a time, once every 2-3 days or every day if the condition gets far worse. This will lower your nitrates (stressor) and reduce your SG. You may also want to increase the temperature to 85 deg F. Both will kill the free swimming form of the parasite.

I am referencing several sources for this treatment by I am by no means an expert. Opinions will vary, I promise you that. The best treatment is always prevention via quarentine and Cu treatment. The next best is to prevent the parasite from reproducing at the same time keeping the fish healthy. Copper is the most effective but lethal in any amount to inverts and some fish. Hyposalinity seems to work as does having healthy fish.

kingtoad · 02/22/2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Holmie_D_Klown
I haven't had any success with the "reef safe" ich remedies like Kick Ich. Most people say its a waste of money, although I have heard that it worked for a few people. Everybody wants an easy solution, but with Ich there is not such thing.

Not looking for an "easy solution". I'm just looking for an effective one.

Thanks for the input.

Shooter7 · 02/22/2006, 04:38 PM

What's been effective for me and is discussed in those articles is fish in a hospital tank using hyposalinity (following the hypo instructions carefully)....display tank kept fallow for 6 weeks so the parasite has nothing to host on. Did that before, fish got better and they didn't get ich again in the display.

kingtoad · 02/22/2006, 09:11 PM

Confused.

I came home today and my tang looks fine. He is no longer dirty, and doesn't have white spots on his skin anymore.

This makes me happy but I am also going to proceed with the necessary precautions just in case my aquarium does have Ich.

All of you, I appreciate your help... your input, advice, and knowledge have helped me out a lot. Thanks.

Shooter7 · 02/22/2006, 09:16 PM

Have you read this article yet?

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...marineich.html

It's part of ich's lifecycle to drop off the fish so the fish can look "clean" at times.

kingtoad · 02/22/2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shooter7
Have you read this article yet?

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...marineich.html

It's part of ich's lifecycle to drop off the fish so the fish can look "clean" at times.

Woah, that fish looks bad. The "white dots" were no where NEAR as big as those. Perhaps there are different sizes... and I happen to have small ones.

Whatever the case may be, I'm going to proceed with the treatment anyhow.

mikenpam · 02/23/2006, 02:42 AM

Keep an eye on your fish to see if the white spots return in a few days. I had a bad case of Ich in my main tank. I began using a reef safe treatment but had no success. I lost a few fish before I could get them into QT. I did leave my main tank fish free for 7 weeks and used the hyposalinity method to treat my fish in QT (SG of 1.009). It took three weeks before I no longer had signs of Ich on my fish. I have had my fish back in the main tank now for over a month with no sign of Ich. I have also added additional fish that were QT'd for at least 4 weeks. Some people have had good luck with garlic and in tank treatments and all I will say is keep a watch on your fish. If they get better than you are one of the lucky ones. If they continue to show signs of Ich you will most likely need to QT.

I have a tang that was brushing against the PVC in my QT and it turned out I had poor water parameters in the tank and not Ich on that fish. Improved the water parameters and added Selcon to its food and the tang stopped scraping and healed up. Maybe a large water change along with garlic may eliminate any problems.

Good luck!

Fred_J · 02/23/2006, 03:02 AM

Go with what mikenpam said. Ich does fall off the fish as part of it's life cycle. In QT tank use hyposalinity 1.009 or copper. Read all the stickied post.
Fred

Holmie_D_Klown · 02/23/2006, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fred_J
Go with what mikenpam said. Ich does fall off the fish as part of it's life cycle. In QT tank use hyposalinity 1.009 or copper. Read all the stickied post.
Fred

I agree. From most of what I've read, keeping the salinity at 1.009 is key with hypo.

puffer21 · 02/23/2006, 08:57 AM

if you have nothing in your tank besides snails and hermits. and your adding clowns do you need to qt them.

kingtoad · 02/23/2006, 10:27 AM

Will do, Mikenpam.

One question, how do I add garlic to my fish food? They all eat frozen brine shrimp, and appear to love it.

Do I buy garlic from the store and soak it? How do I do this?

WaterKeeper · 02/23/2006, 10:39 AM

The full story on Ich and How to Treat it.

kingtoad · 02/24/2006, 01:42 AM

Well, it's back again, whatever it is.

I'm afraid to decrease my salanity to 1.009 because I have coral. Will they die? Will my inverts die? Will my fish die?

I have the temps up to 85, and I'm still loking for methods to do this, since I do not have a quarantine tank.

I'm not even sure if it is Ich. Look at these pics of my tang. He appears fine sometimes, but other times (like in this pic) he looks horrible. He's not breathing heavy, but he seems to be kind of chillen out in the sand bed.

You can see all these black dots on him that is making him look really dirty.

Damnit, last night he was looking beautiful.

02/22/2006, 11:28 AM	#1
kingtoad Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 399	I think I have ich, need confirmation from experienced hobbyst. I noticed my tang started scraping himself against rocks and sand the other day. I heard this was a sympton of Ich. I looked closely and didn't see any tiny white dots on him. I looked at him last night, and it appears he is really dirty. It looks like some of the algae on the rocks and other stuff stuck onto him while he was scraping against them. I look at it today, and I see a combination of white dots and dirtyness that I think is from rocks/sand... or it could be the infection. A lot of the dots are brown too. Do I have ich?

02/22/2006, 11:39 AM	#3
Shooter7 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tolono, IL Posts: 6,754	Best approach would be to pull all fish out and put into QT and leave the display fallow for up to 6 weeks. http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...osalinity.html Also go to the fish disease forum and read the stickied threads at the top of the forum. __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: 10 years salty - standard 29g reef - moved from 120 gal reef, 2x250w Reeflux 10k's on ARO electronics and VHO super actinics on Icecap ballast, 2xTunze 6060, MSX 200 skimmer, GEO 612 Ca reactor, mag 12 return

02/22/2006, 02:25 PM	#7
Shooter7 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tolono, IL Posts: 6,754	May not be irrelevant. I'm no specialist on what the effects of unstable water parameters are on a tang, but it could be that this could cause the fish to have decreased ability to fight off infection or parasites, or just cause it to be stressed overall. I don't know the specifics, but could be possible. At any rate, hope all turns out ok. What size tank are we talking about anyway? __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: 10 years salty - standard 29g reef - moved from 120 gal reef, 2x250w Reeflux 10k's on ARO electronics and VHO super actinics on Icecap ballast, 2xTunze 6060, MSX 200 skimmer, GEO 612 Ca reactor, mag 12 return

02/22/2006, 02:39 PM	#9
Shooter7 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tolono, IL Posts: 6,754	ooo yeah, looks like water change time to reduce those nitrates. And I know I keep my tank at 80 - 81 degrees. Others might chime in on that as I think there are alot of opinions, but that's where I keep mine. __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: 10 years salty - standard 29g reef - moved from 120 gal reef, 2x250w Reeflux 10k's on ARO electronics and VHO super actinics on Icecap ballast, 2xTunze 6060, MSX 200 skimmer, GEO 612 Ca reactor, mag 12 return

02/22/2006, 04:38 PM	#15
Shooter7 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tolono, IL Posts: 6,754	What's been effective for me and is discussed in those articles is fish in a hospital tank using hyposalinity (following the hypo instructions carefully)....display tank kept fallow for 6 weeks so the parasite has nothing to host on. Did that before, fish got better and they didn't get ich again in the display. __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: 10 years salty - standard 29g reef - moved from 120 gal reef, 2x250w Reeflux 10k's on ARO electronics and VHO super actinics on Icecap ballast, 2xTunze 6060, MSX 200 skimmer, GEO 612 Ca reactor, mag 12 return

02/22/2006, 11:34 AM	#2
BurntOutReefer Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Granada Hills Posts: 4,376	take him out and QT him asap. If it is ich, it'll show up very soon and you dont want the rest of your tankmates to get it

02/22/2006, 11:41 AM	#4
pvtschultz Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New Berlin , WI Posts: 1,247	YTs can also get black ich which will give them that dirty look. I have managed to get rid of ich while all fish were in the tank but other's results will vary of course. I only had a 55 gallon tank with 4 fish: 1 Yellow Tang, 1 Royal Gramma, and 2 A. ocellaris clowns. They all pretty much got it. I started crushing garlic and adding the juice to their food. I fed a lot of Nori for the tang soaked with garlic juice. It slowly went away. I think that the final straw was a couple very large water changes during a phyto outbreak of 90% or larger and the final straw to the phyto was a UV sterilizer which might have also had something to do with the ich never reoccuring. It has been over a year since the initial outbreak without any reoccurance. Fish can fight it off natually but they must be healthy in order to do so. Putting ocean going creatures in glass cages isn't exactly condusive to good health so light stocking and proper nutrition along with good water quality are all neccessary to ward off infections.

02/22/2006, 01:47 PM	#5
cw150 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: nw suburbs chicago Posts: 330	...a 1 month old tank is probably too young for a tang. Your tank's parameters probably are not stable at this point.

02/22/2006, 02:43 PM	#10
kingtoad Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 399	Yes, I beleive I either have faulty heaters or faulty thermometer. My water is pretty warm, but my Thermometer says 75. However, my heaters are set to 85. I'm going to buy another thermometer to check it today just in case. I also do weekly water changes of 10%. Maybe I'll do 30% this weekend.

02/22/2006, 03:00 PM	#11
kingtoad Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 399	Thanks for the input, everyone. I appreciate it. Do you find "Ruby Reef - Kick-Ich" any effective? http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_....asp?ast=&key=

02/22/2006, 03:48 PM	#13
pvtschultz Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New Berlin , WI Posts: 1,247	I too had little or no success with the reef safe additives. If you do not have corals or inverts, you may be able to slowly reduce the SG of your tank down to 1.020 or lower which will prevent the ich from reproducing. Most LFSs will keep the SG at 1.020 for that reason. You'll need to do this slowly over the course of a week or so as to no further stress the fish. I have heard of ultra low SG treatments (1.015 or lower) but I'm not an expert on the subject manner. This will have negative concenquences on any invertibrate but you may be better able to fight off the ich. My plan: -reduce the SG to 1.010-1.015 if you have no corals of value (you shouldn't) -do so by doing water changes with water that is at about 1.010-1.012, 10% at a time, once every 2-3 days or every day if the condition gets far worse. This will lower your nitrates (stressor) and reduce your SG. You may also want to increase the temperature to 85 deg F. Both will kill the free swimming form of the parasite. I am referencing several sources for this treatment by I am by no means an expert. Opinions will vary, I promise you that. The best treatment is always prevention via quarentine and Cu treatment. The next best is to prevent the parasite from reproducing at the same time keeping the fish healthy. Copper is the most effective but lethal in any amount to inverts and some fish. Hyposalinity seems to work as does having healthy fish.

02/22/2006, 09:11 PM	#16
kingtoad Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 399	Confused. I came home today and my tang looks fine. He is no longer dirty, and doesn't have white spots on his skin anymore. This makes me happy but I am also going to proceed with the necessary precautions just in case my aquarium does have Ich. All of you, I appreciate your help... your input, advice, and knowledge have helped me out a lot. Thanks.

02/22/2006, 09:16 PM	#17
Shooter7 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tolono, IL Posts: 6,754	Have you read this article yet? http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...marineich.html It's part of ich's lifecycle to drop off the fish so the fish can look "clean" at times. __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: 10 years salty - standard 29g reef - moved from 120 gal reef, 2x250w Reeflux 10k's on ARO electronics and VHO super actinics on Icecap ballast, 2xTunze 6060, MSX 200 skimmer, GEO 612 Ca reactor, mag 12 return

02/23/2006, 02:42 AM	#19
mikenpam Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 326	Keep an eye on your fish to see if the white spots return in a few days. I had a bad case of Ich in my main tank. I began using a reef safe treatment but had no success. I lost a few fish before I could get them into QT. I did leave my main tank fish free for 7 weeks and used the hyposalinity method to treat my fish in QT (SG of 1.009). It took three weeks before I no longer had signs of Ich on my fish. I have had my fish back in the main tank now for over a month with no sign of Ich. I have also added additional fish that were QT'd for at least 4 weeks. Some people have had good luck with garlic and in tank treatments and all I will say is keep a watch on your fish. If they get better than you are one of the lucky ones. If they continue to show signs of Ich you will most likely need to QT. I have a tang that was brushing against the PVC in my QT and it turned out I had poor water parameters in the tank and not Ich on that fish. Improved the water parameters and added Selcon to its food and the tang stopped scraping and healed up. Maybe a large water change along with garlic may eliminate any problems. Good luck!

02/23/2006, 03:02 AM	#20
Fred_J Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Goldsboro, NC Posts: 514	Go with what mikenpam said. Ich does fall off the fish as part of it's life cycle. In QT tank use hyposalinity 1.009 or copper. Read all the stickied post. Fred __________________ Fred Current Tank Info: 75g reef 20g sump, 55g reef 10g sump

02/23/2006, 08:57 AM	#22
puffer21 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,006	if you have nothing in your tank besides snails and hermits. and your adding clowns do you need to qt them. __________________ I have never been one for guidelines Current Tank Info: 20g Turtle Tank and 58g OC Ultimate Reef :)

02/23/2006, 10:27 AM	#23
kingtoad Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 399	Will do, Mikenpam. One question, how do I add garlic to my fish food? They all eat frozen brine shrimp, and appear to love it. Do I buy garlic from the store and soak it? How do I do this?

02/23/2006, 10:39 AM	#24
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	The full story on Ich and How to Treat it. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

02/24/2006, 01:42 AM	#25
kingtoad Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 399	Well, it's back again, whatever it is. I'm afraid to decrease my salanity to 1.009 because I have coral. Will they die? Will my inverts die? Will my fish die? I have the temps up to 85, and I'm still loking for methods to do this, since I do not have a quarantine tank. I'm not even sure if it is Ich. Look at these pics of my tang. He appears fine sometimes, but other times (like in this pic) he looks horrible. He's not breathing heavy, but he seems to be kind of chillen out in the sand bed. You can see all these black dots on him that is making him look really dirty. Damnit, last night he was looking beautiful.