HELP! I dont know what is wrong!

Kati · 03/04/2006, 10:53 PM

I have a little 12g nano cube and its been set up for about 6 monthes. about 6 weeks ago all i had an enourmous ich outbreak and all of my fish died. since then i decided to let my tank recover and get rid of the ich so i just kept a few shrimp. and that was fine until about 2 weeks ago when everything just started to die!My Plants are doing fantastic, but all of the animals, including a mantis and all my snails are dying, all i have left is a hermit crab. I cannot figure out the problem. all of my tests come out fine, my nitrate levels are a little high, and so is my alkalinity. everything else is fine. i dont know if it might have something to do with the new live rock i added a few weeks ago? any help or ideas would be appriciated. thanks!

piercho · 03/04/2006, 11:03 PM

Its possibly low O2 during the lights off cycle, or very high pH at the end of the light cycle or after supplementing alkalinity. Another possibility is a chemical that is toxic to animals but not plants. That could be the result of a treating the water for ich.

Did you treat the water for ich? What with?
How are you buffering your alkalinity?
Can you immediately exchange your carbon with fresh carbon?

I know that you won't have means to measure O2. Do you have a means to measure pH? Can you measure pH just before lights off and just before lights on?

graveyardworm · 03/04/2006, 11:12 PM

Small tank, mantis, heavy feeding, new LR addition with possible die off. Could have overwhelmed the bio filter, and spiked ammonia, fish and invert die off resulting in more ammonia, and nitrites.

Did you test ammonia, and nitrites while it was happening?

chocolateblnt · 03/04/2006, 11:45 PM

wow ... no idea, may be associated to the ich. You need more tests done but now that everything is dead I would just start over

... Sorry Kati. Try learning more about reefing here at RC to prevent any future problems and it also helps posting a log of some sort so we can watch your progress

bertoni · 03/04/2006, 11:47 PM

What are the water parameters?

If the algae are growing strongly, there's a food source around. What is your water change schedule? Do you have a protein skimmer? Run carbon?

masson · 03/04/2006, 11:54 PM

You have a mantis..... they eat snails and other things. What kind of fish and how many did you have die from ich?

Kati · 03/05/2006, 12:29 AM

wow, thanks for all the help! i had a green spotted puffer ( i love them but they are evil), a baby tomato clown, and a firefish die from the ich and a hi-fin goby die from something that wasn't ich around the same time. i didnt use anything to treat the ich, i was doing daily water changes and that kept it at bay until i left town, and someone screwed up my light cycle (i dont have a timer). i checked my pH yesterday and it was 8.3. I have no Nitrites, and i have not tested for amonia. I have been buffering to get my pH up for a while and it finally stabilized about a week ago, which probably accounts for the high alkalinity. funny story about the mantis is that when i got it it had an eye disease and was completely blind! so i was hand-feeding, so it was not too much of a predator.... anyway i have been running carbon but i took it out to treat my cyanobacteria. i am thinking about taking it down and starting over. i am super frusterated.

Shooter7 · 03/05/2006, 01:35 AM

Starting over might not be a bad idea. Sounds like you need to do alot of reading before starting over. Here is a thread that just popped up to the top a little while ago and is good for someone new to read:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=239848

Too many fish in that little tank, I have one fish in a 10 gal, you had what, four fish in a 12? Along with a mantis? And you said something about "plants" in your first post in this thread, are you talking about corals? You realize those aren't plants, right? Read waterkeeper's thread above, research the things you want to keep in your tank, follow the advice. Good luck.

bertoni · 03/05/2006, 01:43 AM

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

That article is a good starting point for understanding water parameters. This article talks about low pH problems:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php

Using a buffer to control pH usually leads to problems.

WaterKeeper · 03/05/2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kati
i dont know if it might have something to do with the new live rock i added a few weeks ago?

Was that rock placed directly in the tank? It is always best to place new LR in separate containers when you first get it. If it is ammonia free after a week or two it is then OK to add it to the display. Also, invertebrates are much more susceptible to nitrate toxicity than are fish.

When adding any fish to the tank a quarantine period is always in order. See An Once of Prevention for details.

Kati · 03/05/2006, 05:09 PM

thanks everyone

msman825 · 03/05/2006, 06:58 PM

Get the Mantis out of your new tank. WoW You never saw it eatting other stuff, And read about aggresive fish You have a lot of fish in a lttle tank, Slower the better. And put new rock in rubbermaid tote for a week or more. I done the same thing in a 55 before , Over loaded my scooter, It was real exspensive also.Sorry you lost every thing,

03/04/2006, 10:53 PM	#1
Kati Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: San Francisco Posts: 107	HELP! I dont know what is wrong! I have a little 12g nano cube and its been set up for about 6 monthes. about 6 weeks ago all i had an enourmous ich outbreak and all of my fish died. since then i decided to let my tank recover and get rid of the ich so i just kept a few shrimp. and that was fine until about 2 weeks ago when everything just started to die!My Plants are doing fantastic, but all of the animals, including a mantis and all my snails are dying, all i have left is a hermit crab. I cannot figure out the problem. all of my tests come out fine, my nitrate levels are a little high, and so is my alkalinity. everything else is fine. i dont know if it might have something to do with the new live rock i added a few weeks ago? any help or ideas would be appriciated. thanks!

03/04/2006, 11:03 PM	#2
piercho Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 2,194	Its possibly low O2 during the lights off cycle, or very high pH at the end of the light cycle or after supplementing alkalinity. Another possibility is a chemical that is toxic to animals but not plants. That could be the result of a treating the water for ich. Did you treat the water for ich? What with? How are you buffering your alkalinity? Can you immediately exchange your carbon with fresh carbon? I know that you won't have means to measure O2. Do you have a means to measure pH? Can you measure pH just before lights off and just before lights on? __________________ Howard Current Tank Info: 65G reef shut down 2007. 25G planted.

03/04/2006, 11:12 PM	#3
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	Small tank, mantis, heavy feeding, new LR addition with possible die off. Could have overwhelmed the bio filter, and spiked ammonia, fish and invert die off resulting in more ammonia, and nitrites. Did you test ammonia, and nitrites while it was happening? __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

03/04/2006, 11:47 PM	#5
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	What are the water parameters? If the algae are growing strongly, there's a food source around. What is your water change schedule? Do you have a protein skimmer? Run carbon? __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/04/2006, 11:54 PM	#6
masson Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Cocoa Beach FL Posts: 2,404	You have a mantis..... they eat snails and other things. What kind of fish and how many did you have die from ich? __________________ Our stupidity footprint is catching up to our carbon.

03/04/2006, 11:45 PM	#4
chocolateblnt Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sunnyvale, Nor*CAL Posts: 1,736	wow ... no idea, may be associated to the ich. You need more tests done but now that everything is dead I would just start over ... Sorry Kati. Try learning more about reefing here at RC to prevent any future problems and it also helps posting a log of some sort so we can watch your progress

03/05/2006, 12:29 AM	#7
Kati Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: San Francisco Posts: 107	wow, thanks for all the help! i had a green spotted puffer ( i love them but they are evil), a baby tomato clown, and a firefish die from the ich and a hi-fin goby die from something that wasn't ich around the same time. i didnt use anything to treat the ich, i was doing daily water changes and that kept it at bay until i left town, and someone screwed up my light cycle (i dont have a timer). i checked my pH yesterday and it was 8.3. I have no Nitrites, and i have not tested for amonia. I have been buffering to get my pH up for a while and it finally stabilized about a week ago, which probably accounts for the high alkalinity. funny story about the mantis is that when i got it it had an eye disease and was completely blind! so i was hand-feeding, so it was not too much of a predator.... anyway i have been running carbon but i took it out to treat my cyanobacteria. i am thinking about taking it down and starting over. i am super frusterated. __________________ One in four people are in some way affected by mental health concerns. think of your three best friends. If they seem normal, its you. Current Tank Info: a 60g. mixed reef display... or as I like to call it "the money pit"

03/05/2006, 01:35 AM	#8
Shooter7 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tolono, IL Posts: 6,754	Starting over might not be a bad idea. Sounds like you need to do alot of reading before starting over. Here is a thread that just popped up to the top a little while ago and is good for someone new to read: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=239848 Too many fish in that little tank, I have one fish in a 10 gal, you had what, four fish in a 12? Along with a mantis? And you said something about "plants" in your first post in this thread, are you talking about corals? You realize those aren't plants, right? Read waterkeeper's thread above, research the things you want to keep in your tank, follow the advice. Good luck. __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: 10 years salty - standard 29g reef - moved from 120 gal reef, 2x250w Reeflux 10k's on ARO electronics and VHO super actinics on Icecap ballast, 2xTunze 6060, MSX 200 skimmer, GEO 612 Ca reactor, mag 12 return

03/05/2006, 01:43 AM	#9
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php That article is a good starting point for understanding water parameters. This article talks about low pH problems: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php Using a buffer to control pH usually leads to problems. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/05/2006, 05:09 PM	#11
Kati Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: San Francisco Posts: 107	thanks everyone __________________ One in four people are in some way affected by mental health concerns. think of your three best friends. If they seem normal, its you. Current Tank Info: a 60g. mixed reef display... or as I like to call it "the money pit"

03/05/2006, 06:58 PM	#12
msman825 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: maine Posts: 1,301	Get the Mantis out of your new tank. WoW You never saw it eatting other stuff, And read about aggresive fish You have a lot of fish in a lttle tank, Slower the better. And put new rock in rubbermaid tote for a week or more. I done the same thing in a 55 before , Over loaded my scooter, It was real exspensive also.Sorry you lost every thing, __________________ MSMAN