Skimmerless Tank Setup

[travisurfer]

Ok guys, what do you think?
20H
65watts pc
ac500 modded into a refugium
2 x 155 gph powerheads
100watt visi-therm heater
20-25lbs cured live rock
15lbs special grade reef sand seeded with live
2 pink skunks or a single gold-stripe maroon
condy anemone or tulip anemones or no anemone

will probably upgrade lighting to a 96quad eventually. will also get an ATO later because i know its worth it. 1-2 gal water changes weekly using instant ocean and distilled water.

[Madoktopus]

condys are not clownfish freindly and i dont think the proposed lights would be strong enough for host anemone. also going skimmerless with an anemone is asking for trouble as they are hard enough to keep anyway and would soon outgrow the avaliable space. it could be done with better lights and the ecosystem method but i really would not advise in such a small volume and besides skunks are medium size clowns which would require more space than say percs and the maroon would be such a nutrient factory and will probably bite you when you put your hands in. i would say no and to research ito this more thoroughly- try lookin in both the nano and the clownfish and anemone forum. hope this helps. madok

[bertoni]

You could look into the min-carpet anemones for the tank. They aren't hosts for clowns, but they stay small enough that they might be happy in the aquarium. I don't know about their lighting requirements, though.

Condylactis and the host anemones all get too large for that tank.

[travisurfer]

ok, i havent heard of mini-carpet anemones but i may just go with green hairy shrooms.

madoktopus:i have heard of condy's being ok with the larger clowns and i know one of these would be fine under my lighting b/c i know someone who kept on successfully under these lights. i also know that keeping host anemones in this setup would be irresponsible due to their sensitivity and full grown size. i do know that maroons get big etc. but am still considering it an option. i do agree that a pink skunk pair may be pushing it b/c of their behavior together. i already have researched a lot. thanks for looking out for me though.

[bertoni]

If you're interested in clowns, Joyce Wilkerson's book is great, IMO. Fun to read, and lots of information.

[travisurfer]

ive already read through it and look at it for reference from time to time. thanks anyway.

[Swanwillow]

fine, I'll say it: sounds fun!!!! just make sure you keep up on the water changes.

I'd go without an anemone: I don't feel that the situation is right for them, but, there are some that would be asthetically pleasing as long as your clowns don't try to host in them: tube anemones!!!

or, lots of shrooms!

oh, I'm not a clown person, so I don't know how big the skunks get, but I do know about cinamon clowns: had a pair, they bit... a 20 gallon would have been fun for a pair.

[Agu]

Anemones can live and thrive in smaller tanks. The real issue is that they tend to wander, typically into the nearest pump/powerhead. In a small tank that can happen before you even realize they've started moving. That's why I no longer keep anemones in my nanos.

skimmerless is fine if you do the waterchanges regularly.

[sequential]

Originally posted by Madoktopus
condys are not clownfish freindly

It's not that condy's are unfriendly, they are just less likely host clowns. For example, my condy and clown would be lost without each other:

i dont think the proposed lights would be strong enough for host anemone.

My condy is over a year old and for a vast majority of time was quite healthy in less than 40W of fluorescent light. That said, the condy appears to be growing at a greater rate now. The trick was getting the anemone close to the lights. I have a 37g tall at the moment, so this meant large rock structures.

also going skimmerless with an anemone is asking for trouble

Once again, in the period of time I've had this condy, I've had a skimmer for less than a month. Though I think skimmers are a good idea, they are not necessary.

i would say no and to research ito this more thoroughly

If you're hoping for a spot on match with a clown, condy's aren't the way to go. I've quite enjoyed mine and am quite lucky that my clown hosted in it so easily.

Originally posted by Agu
The real issue is that they tend to wander

My understanding of the wandering anemone, especially a condy, is that this is a sign of general unhappiness. Other than when I've physically moved the rock the anemone was on, my condy has moved once since entering the tank, and that was after an aquascaping where the rock the condy's foot was on was repositioned.

I've had anemones do the whole "Oooh, a powerhead! I wonder what's inside!?!!?" routine. This was probably mostly human error on two counts. This anemone did wander, likely because it was unhappy, and I placed the powerhead in a terrible spot in the tank, namely inches away from the anemone.

I know my experience runs counter to the more common experience, but I have found keeping this anemone very fun and easy. The key to my success, previous to having such modern luxuries as a skimmer, was religious water changes and staying on top of any adverse changes in the tank.

If you try a condy, I'd definitely recommend a smaller clown with the possible exception if you're buying a very large condy to begin with. Mine is several times larger than the day I bought it, but I don't think my condy would host anything much larger than the tiny clown pictured above.

If you have your hopes set on hosting, just know that, unless you're buying an already hosted pair, the condy may reject your clown. The clown will look heartbroken.

One last, valuable lesson I learned through the heartbreak of losing anemone: get them after your tank has stablized, not just after it cycles. My original tank cycled and then mini-cycled for a few months. Much of the problem was human error again, but the mini cycles can make your anemone unhappy enough to want to go play suck face with a powerhead.

[travisurfer]

thanks sequential. i know the clown may not host, but was thinking about giving it a try anyway. as far as weekly water changes, would 1-2 gal weekly be sufficient or should i add a cheap skimmer(prizm delux or cpr) to that.

[sequential]

travisurfer, I did anywhere from 5% (one gallon) to 25% (five gallons) when I had my 20g set up with my condy and clown. Essentially, if the tank was doing well, I left well enough alone and only did a gallon. If I was behind a few days or the tank had problems, I would do more.

Here are some other quick thoughts I had while rereading your initial post:

1) If you go without a skimmer, perhaps try adding a 15 lbs of good quality LR and 15 lbs of good quality base rock. (You can usually find a good mix of both in the selling forums or the local hobby forums.) This gives you more biological filtration, but gives you less room for tank inhabitants. You'll want to monitor your Alk and your Ca if you intend to encourage coralline algae, and you'll likely need something like B-Ionic to dose for both. In time, your base will be live rock. I advise against tufa after having it in my tank for two years, but it does the trick if you're in a pinch. I'm told tufa is great for Cichlids though.

2) You can also go with plain, dead sand as a base, like Quikrete or Southdown. (Note that Quikrete is reportedly finer and browner than SD.) You can seed your sand with LS purchased from your LFS or your local hobby forums. Just a pound or so would be good to seed with. You can add another scoop every month or so to increase biological diversity, but with your LR, the sand will become live on its own. The addition of live sand hastens the pace.

3) You may wish to have something like a Phosban Reactor or other method of chemical filtration unless your modded AC500 has retained the ability to do chemical filtration.

4) One other thing to note, the condy seems to really like flow, but indirectly. If the flow from my MJ1200 hits the condy, it recoils pretty quickly. On the other hand, when there's less flow from something else, it actually appears to seek it out.

For the sake of getting the point others were trying to make across: this set up is easy to make mistakes with that lead to dead anemones. Be vigilant and patient.

Good luck! And post pictures when things are all set up!

[travisurfer]

ok, thanks again.
1)my friend is taking his tank down so ill be getting around 20-25 lbs of fully cured nice and purple rock from him for around $70.
2)as far as a substrate, ill probably just get a 15lb bag of caribsea special grade reef sand and seed it form the same tank from above along with my lfs's reef tank
3)i may just try the prizm delux skimmer b/c i found one for a good price and put a little chemi-pure in the media basket
4)its nice to hear about specific care for these guys. im still not set on getting one b/c it will have to wait until my tank is at least 6 months old

and finally i know that the most important part of this hobby is to take things slow. thanks for all the advice.