yes,I'm starting small...

OrangeKoi · 03/07/2006, 01:17 AM

Hello. I'm new to the marine aquarium scene. I've been studying what to do/what to buy on and off for about six months to a year. I finally decided small was best for now. I figure, that's how I learned fresh water, (small) and I did well so I'd try this small. I don't want to outgrow my pockets.

I had a 2.5 gallon unoccupied so today I bought about 4 lbs of live rock, salt water, conditioner, live mud, coraline (shell sand?) and as I had been gathering supplies over time, I already had a master test kit, hydrometer, filter, heater and a 50/50 actinct,10 k 15 watt light. I'm hoping some soft corals and one fish after an extended period of patient watching and learning till I have learned how to keep it stable as well as I can.

The LFS said I should only put in about 1/2 inch of the coraline sand with the mud under it...what do you think? Do I need more? I have set it all up. The sand settled nicely and the water flows well through and around the live rocks.

Oh, and when I was putting in the heater something went "woosh" in the sand. It wasn't the heater and it wasnt my hand. Any ideas? I tried to see if there would be something after the lights went out but I couldn't see anything.

What is the smallest size of those magnetic scrapers? I love them for my freshwater tanks but I don't want to fill my little tub with scraper. Anyone know if they come in the 1/2 inch size?

Oh, my water seems to test very hard and like above 8.4 pH is this normal when you buy salt water at setup?

Teremei · 03/07/2006, 01:56 AM

I deffinatly wouldn't go that small. Especially for saltwater. In my opinion you'd need to be an expert to master the water chemistry of a tank that small. I would go 25 gallon atleast.

Now if you were just to keep some live rock, maybe a hermit crab, snail or 2. And some easy corals like mushrooms. Then go for it. But there aint a single fish that would be happy in a 2.5 gallon.

The larger the tank size, the easier it is to keep all levels balanced. Because just one water change on a 2.5 if you're not carefull, and you'd cause a new cycle. Also just the daily evaporation on a tank that small could cause specific gravity to flucuate from 1.021 to 1.030 EASILY.

Please go a bit bigger than that. For your sanity, and for the little critters you might put in there too. I'm only trying to help, so please don't take this the wrong way.

OrangeKoi · 03/07/2006, 02:07 AM

So then, I skip the fish for now eh? How will treating it like a refugeum work? with the live rock etc?

Teremei · 03/07/2006, 02:12 AM

I'm not sure I understand your question? You mean how will it work if you just go with liverock ect. .?

Just that you won't have to worry so much about the changes in water chemistry if you just had live rock and some shrooms or polyps. Because you wouldn't have to go through the heartache of a little fishy dying or getting sick, then rushing here to ask how to help it. I'm just sayin if you want to use that 2.5. Just try it out with some rocks, sand, and inverts and have a little cool tank for hermit crabs or somethin.

Joshthenosh · 03/07/2006, 05:19 AM

i cant even imagine what a 2.5 gallon looks like!

you will soon find out by reading these boards any all sources of information, the smaller you guy in Marine the harder it gets.

Though it also seems people dont seem to realise that not everyone can afford a 75 gal tank. This is one of the most expensive hobbys you can do, since i started 2 months ago ive already gone from a 25 gallon to a 75 gallon. and have spent a lot more than i would have liked.

If your determinded to go ahead with your micro nano reef, id use an external filter which you could put some carbon and phos remover in, and would give u all the flow u needed, you could probbaly use a small desk lamp halogen.

you could alwyas put 1 leather coral or a mushroom on your LR a few hermits a few snails a cleaner shrimp, and though its really small you could b put a nice velvet damsel in there.

people say they wont be happy, but i doubt any fish is happy about being kept in a glass box

Teremei · 03/07/2006, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joshthenosh

people say they wont be happy, but i doubt any fish is happy about being kept in a glass box

Ofcourse they would be happier in the ocean. But that's a pretty silly statement. Some hobbiest have some very LARGE glass boxes. I know if I was a small angelfish I probably would be very happy in a 1000 gallon reef.

Even the smallest of fish, I wouldn't do in a 2.5 gallon. Clown Goby, Neon Goby, I can't think of too many more. I know if I was a damsel or goby I wouldn't be happy in a 2.5. It's not a HUGE investment to start with something around 20 gallons. And I'd do that at a bare minimum for a nano reef.

I think Jebo, or JVC, or some other company. Makes a nice complete 24 bow nano kit. And it looks pretty nice.

Joshthenosh · 03/07/2006, 05:37 AM

Well agreed thats a given, and i totaly agree a 20 gallon would be much better wouldnt be too expensive, and you could get a pair of clowns in there.

ive just started adding my fish after 2 months, i have 2 clowns 1 has only 2 stripes, and they are great they follow each other around, and are soo cute, i also got a royal gramm awhich is beautiful and has loads of charecter.

my cleaner shrimps are great too always grabbing my hand and never hiding, unlike my fire shrimp which i only see whn its feding time

OrangeKoi · 03/07/2006, 06:25 AM

Thanks Teremei. That sounds perfect. After awhile I'll get some of those refugium plants going with the shrooms.
There are some really cool leather corals too.

Joshthenosh, yes, people don't realize that sometimes others do things differently anyway too. I remember when I was a kid starting fresh water. People never thought a ten gallon was a sensible size either, but I managed it. It was a good size for me. Funny thing is it is still a nice size for me and only recently did I purchace a 30 gallon cube for some angelfish I finally splurged on (after umpteen years). Pretty funny. But I try very hard to make sure I don't push the numbers. I would rather have spare room anyday.

What you suggest is exactly the filter type setup that I have. It seems to be quite a good flow. And what an excellent idea for a hollogen lamp. I wonder what the rating would be...I would be just fine without the expense of those fishies that it sounds like people kill in 55, 75 even 100 gallons anyway, right? At least for now. I just want to see the process. To learn.

Like you said, you are spending way more than you wanted to. And if it is way too touchy, perhaps by that time I'll have the means to do something different, and more importantly, the knowledge to choose wisely? From all you clever people (and I'm sure, the books I'll find relevant from a practical perspective rather than passive for another year) it sounds like learning this process takes a lot of time as well as funds. And as I'm a stay at home mom for a little longer, I believe time wise and support wise, this will work. One can hope.

And there does seem to me that there is some sort of system that I can perhaps set up to keep the water level stable. What do you all do for your big tanks? The more surface area exposed the more evaporation, right? So you all must have some sort of drip system set up, right? That's the part I can't figure out. Someone on another forum (I don't remember the site,it was on an old computer)was discussing something that used gravity, some sort of piping system, a secondary source/container of fresh water to replace the evaporated water which allowed for a more stable environment...anyone know about this sort of thing?

kau_cinta_ku · 03/07/2006, 06:50 AM

i haven't set mine up yet but what your talking about is an ATO (Automatic Top Off) when my 75 gal. is ready to go with my 30 gal. sump fuge this is the ATO i will be using. ATO

there are many diff. ways of setting one up such as gravity fed like you said which is just a 1-5 gal. container that sits higher than your sump or tank and is dripped in the tank. however using float valves make it much easier as lets say you have your ATO set with an IV dripper to drip 2 gals. of water for evaporation and then the next day you only evaporate 1 gal. you will have dripped an extra 1 gal. of water in your tank which will throw your sg levels off among others. with a float switch you can set it so that when water reaches a certain level it will drip your top off water until it reaches a certain height and then shut off until more evaporation.

OrangeKoi · 03/07/2006, 07:08 AM

Hmmm...Thanks. I will have to study this. Do they all use electricity?

This may sound funny, but I was just thinking...the way the valve is set up in the toilet...

you know? That works without electricity doesn't it? I wish I could take one of those 5 gallon jugs they sell for $15 dollars at the lfs for transporting salt water...(it has a spigot on the bottom and a refil opening on top), attach some pvc piping to the spigot with some salt water safe sealant, connect a small valve that uses a leever (like the old toilets or even like the new ones, but smaller) which of course means the pipe would have to have a u in it which would have to be under the water level holding the valve in position to allow the water level to be constant.

Can you picture this and does this seem realistic?

03/07/2006, 01:17 AM	#1
OrangeKoi Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Va Posts: 556	yes,I'm starting small... Hello. I'm new to the marine aquarium scene. I've been studying what to do/what to buy on and off for about six months to a year. I finally decided small was best for now. I figure, that's how I learned fresh water, (small) and I did well so I'd try this small. I don't want to outgrow my pockets. I had a 2.5 gallon unoccupied so today I bought about 4 lbs of live rock, salt water, conditioner, live mud, coraline (shell sand?) and as I had been gathering supplies over time, I already had a master test kit, hydrometer, filter, heater and a 50/50 actinct,10 k 15 watt light. I'm hoping some soft corals and one fish after an extended period of patient watching and learning till I have learned how to keep it stable as well as I can. The LFS said I should only put in about 1/2 inch of the coraline sand with the mud under it...what do you think? Do I need more? I have set it all up. The sand settled nicely and the water flows well through and around the live rocks. Oh, and when I was putting in the heater something went "woosh" in the sand. It wasn't the heater and it wasnt my hand. Any ideas? I tried to see if there would be something after the lights went out but I couldn't see anything. What is the smallest size of those magnetic scrapers? I love them for my freshwater tanks but I don't want to fill my little tub with scraper. Anyone know if they come in the 1/2 inch size? Oh, my water seems to test very hard and like above 8.4 pH is this normal when you buy salt water at setup? Last edited by OrangeKoi; 03/07/2006 at 01:43 AM.

03/07/2006, 01:56 AM	#2
Teremei Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Chicago (one hour west) Posts: 2,751	I deffinatly wouldn't go that small. Especially for saltwater. In my opinion you'd need to be an expert to master the water chemistry of a tank that small. I would go 25 gallon atleast. Now if you were just to keep some live rock, maybe a hermit crab, snail or 2. And some easy corals like mushrooms. Then go for it. But there aint a single fish that would be happy in a 2.5 gallon. The larger the tank size, the easier it is to keep all levels balanced. Because just one water change on a 2.5 if you're not carefull, and you'd cause a new cycle. Also just the daily evaporation on a tank that small could cause specific gravity to flucuate from 1.021 to 1.030 EASILY. Please go a bit bigger than that. For your sanity, and for the little critters you might put in there too. I'm only trying to help, so please don't take this the wrong way.

03/07/2006, 02:07 AM	#3
OrangeKoi Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Va Posts: 556	So then, I skip the fish for now eh? How will treating it like a refugeum work? with the live rock etc?

03/07/2006, 02:12 AM	#4
Teremei Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Chicago (one hour west) Posts: 2,751	I'm not sure I understand your question? You mean how will it work if you just go with liverock ect. .? Just that you won't have to worry so much about the changes in water chemistry if you just had live rock and some shrooms or polyps. Because you wouldn't have to go through the heartache of a little fishy dying or getting sick, then rushing here to ask how to help it. I'm just sayin if you want to use that 2.5. Just try it out with some rocks, sand, and inverts and have a little cool tank for hermit crabs or somethin.

03/07/2006, 05:19 AM	#5
Joshthenosh Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 188	i cant even imagine what a 2.5 gallon looks like! you will soon find out by reading these boards any all sources of information, the smaller you guy in Marine the harder it gets. Though it also seems people dont seem to realise that not everyone can afford a 75 gal tank. This is one of the most expensive hobbys you can do, since i started 2 months ago ive already gone from a 25 gallon to a 75 gallon. and have spent a lot more than i would have liked. If your determinded to go ahead with your micro nano reef, id use an external filter which you could put some carbon and phos remover in, and would give u all the flow u needed, you could probbaly use a small desk lamp halogen. you could alwyas put 1 leather coral or a mushroom on your LR a few hermits a few snails a cleaner shrimp, and though its really small you could b put a nice velvet damsel in there. people say they wont be happy, but i doubt any fish is happy about being kept in a glass box

03/07/2006, 05:37 AM	#7
Joshthenosh Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 188	Well agreed thats a given, and i totaly agree a 20 gallon would be much better wouldnt be too expensive, and you could get a pair of clowns in there. ive just started adding my fish after 2 months, i have 2 clowns 1 has only 2 stripes, and they are great they follow each other around, and are soo cute, i also got a royal gramm awhich is beautiful and has loads of charecter. my cleaner shrimps are great too always grabbing my hand and never hiding, unlike my fire shrimp which i only see whn its feding time

03/07/2006, 06:25 AM	#8
OrangeKoi Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Va Posts: 556	Thanks Teremei. That sounds perfect. After awhile I'll get some of those refugium plants going with the shrooms. There are some really cool leather corals too. Joshthenosh, yes, people don't realize that sometimes others do things differently anyway too. I remember when I was a kid starting fresh water. People never thought a ten gallon was a sensible size either, but I managed it. It was a good size for me. Funny thing is it is still a nice size for me and only recently did I purchace a 30 gallon cube for some angelfish I finally splurged on (after umpteen years). Pretty funny. But I try very hard to make sure I don't push the numbers. I would rather have spare room anyday. What you suggest is exactly the filter type setup that I have. It seems to be quite a good flow. And what an excellent idea for a hollogen lamp. I wonder what the rating would be...I would be just fine without the expense of those fishies that it sounds like people kill in 55, 75 even 100 gallons anyway, right? At least for now. I just want to see the process. To learn. Like you said, you are spending way more than you wanted to. And if it is way too touchy, perhaps by that time I'll have the means to do something different, and more importantly, the knowledge to choose wisely? From all you clever people (and I'm sure, the books I'll find relevant from a practical perspective rather than passive for another year) it sounds like learning this process takes a lot of time as well as funds. And as I'm a stay at home mom for a little longer, I believe time wise and support wise, this will work. One can hope. And there does seem to me that there is some sort of system that I can perhaps set up to keep the water level stable. What do you all do for your big tanks? The more surface area exposed the more evaporation, right? So you all must have some sort of drip system set up, right? That's the part I can't figure out. Someone on another forum (I don't remember the site,it was on an old computer)was discussing something that used gravity, some sort of piping system, a secondary source/container of fresh water to replace the evaporated water which allowed for a more stable environment...anyone know about this sort of thing?

03/07/2006, 06:50 AM	#9
kau_cinta_ku Moved On Join Date: May 2005 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 8,669	i haven't set mine up yet but what your talking about is an ATO (Automatic Top Off) when my 75 gal. is ready to go with my 30 gal. sump fuge this is the ATO i will be using. ATO there are many diff. ways of setting one up such as gravity fed like you said which is just a 1-5 gal. container that sits higher than your sump or tank and is dripped in the tank. however using float valves make it much easier as lets say you have your ATO set with an IV dripper to drip 2 gals. of water for evaporation and then the next day you only evaporate 1 gal. you will have dripped an extra 1 gal. of water in your tank which will throw your sg levels off among others. with a float switch you can set it so that when water reaches a certain level it will drip your top off water until it reaches a certain height and then shut off until more evaporation.

03/07/2006, 07:08 AM	#10
OrangeKoi Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Va Posts: 556	Hmmm...Thanks. I will have to study this. Do they all use electricity? This may sound funny, but I was just thinking...the way the valve is set up in the toilet... you know? That works without electricity doesn't it? I wish I could take one of those 5 gallon jugs they sell for $15 dollars at the lfs for transporting salt water...(it has a spigot on the bottom and a refil opening on top), attach some pvc piping to the spigot with some salt water safe sealant, connect a small valve that uses a leever (like the old toilets or even like the new ones, but smaller) which of course means the pipe would have to have a u in it which would have to be under the water level holding the valve in position to allow the water level to be constant. Can you picture this and does this seem realistic?