has any one had there syphon overflow break? or is that a rare thing?

teena · 03/12/2006, 05:15 PM

i was reading on sumps & they said one of the down falls is if the syphon tube gets air in it. it will break & water will soon over flow from your display tank on to the floor. i havent got it up yet but i have hard wood floors & if this happens alot should i go with the hang on the back refugium to be safe, its a 75 g tank. im going to try to keep soft corals

RLMainers · 03/12/2006, 05:25 PM

We have an overflow into a sump and we drilled holes in our returns in the tank and have a float valve in the sump, so if we lose power and the air breaks the vacuum the water will only fill the sump up to the float valve.

graveyardworm · 03/12/2006, 05:28 PM

I have a two tube overflow, and if we lose power one always loses siphon right away. The other one takes a few hours. When I move this tank in few months it'll be drilled. Thats the best way to go.

teena · 03/12/2006, 05:28 PM

is that the only way it would fill with air is if i lose power? it wont do it if its running?

graveyardworm · 03/12/2006, 05:31 PM

As long as there's enough flow a U tube type overflow will shoot the bubbles right through.

teena · 03/12/2006, 05:31 PM

RLmainers do u have a pic of yours?

teena · 03/12/2006, 05:33 PM

so if thers more than one way to skin a cat i shouldnt go with the refugium.

RLMainers · 03/12/2006, 05:39 PM

I don't have pics of my own tank, but the links below show the exact thing that we are doing.
http://www.aquacorals.com/ShopOverflows.htm

http://www.aquacorals.com/Pics/DryGo...iagram%201.jpg

graveyardworm · 03/12/2006, 05:45 PM

Aqua corals is where I bought my overflow too bad Amiricle seems to have limited thier selection. I'm having trouble picturing how your setup prevents floods RL. Does the float turn off the pump when the sump level gets high or low?

ohioreef · 03/12/2006, 05:45 PM

I have never had my U-tube even have air bubbles in it, let alone totally breaking siphon. I lost power for 16+ hours last winter and never lost the siphon.

As a post above said, of you have enough flow through the u-tube the bubbles will flow right through.

graveyardworm · 03/12/2006, 05:47 PM

I wish I could figure out why mine break siphon when the power is out. I have nightmares of tank flooding and pumps burning out while I'm at work.

ohioreef · 03/12/2006, 05:50 PM

Is yours an U-tube or one of the CRP models?

Maybe you've got a small hole that is covered when the pump is running but exposed when the water level drops when the pump is off.

graveyardworm · 03/12/2006, 06:09 PM

I've got the U tube Amiricle one. Could the tubes being at very slightly different heights be a possible cause? I cant say if they are, but its just a thought.

graveyardworm · 03/12/2006, 06:24 PM

I dont mean to hijack this thread, but hopefully the info helps. I decided to experiment alittle and try to figure it out besides the tubes needed to be cleaned anyway. I shut the valve for my return and waited, after about 1 minute one tube lost siphon, I noticed it was a little shorter than the other one. Cleaned the tubes, switched thier positions in the box, turned the valve back on primed the tubes and let it flow for a minute or two, then shut the valve back off. In about a minute the same (shorter ) one lost siphon again. So I guess they need to be the same length. The difference in length is about 1/8 inch.

Paintbug · 03/12/2006, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by graveyardworm
I dont mean to hijack this thread, but hopefully the info helps. I decided to experiment alittle and try to figure it out besides the tubes needed to be cleaned anyway. I shut the valve for my return and waited, after about 1 minute one tube lost siphon, I noticed it was a little shorter than the other one. Cleaned the tubes, switched thier positions in the box, turned the valve back on primed the tubes and let it flow for a minute or two, then shut the valve back off. In about a minute the same (shorter ) one lost siphon again. So I guess they need to be the same length. The difference in length is about 1/8 inch.

there is supposed to be a short end on the U-tube. so dont cut it even just yet!

. short end shoud be in the tank side of the overflow. any way you can get me a pic of your overflow box? especially the bulkhead area? it sounds like your drain line is to low in the overflow. the problem you are having should not happen!

sjm817 · 03/12/2006, 08:02 PM

Never. There is no reason a decent, properly set up U Tube overflow should ever break siphon. Maybe if the power was off for many months and the water in the skimmer and drain boxes evaporated enough to expose the ends of the U Tube.

graveyardworm · 03/12/2006, 08:05 PM

My overflow has two U tubes, and one is a hair shorter than the other on the short side ( the end in the tank side ). The shorter one is the one that loses siphon.

edit: I think because the longer one continues to pull the water level down.

sjm817 · 03/12/2006, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by graveyardworm
I dont mean to hijack this thread, but hopefully the info helps. I decided to experiment alittle and try to figure it out besides the tubes needed to be cleaned anyway. I shut the valve for my return and waited, after about 1 minute one tube lost siphon, I noticed it was a little shorter than the other one. Cleaned the tubes, switched thier positions in the box, turned the valve back on primed the tubes and let it flow for a minute or two, then shut the valve back off. In about a minute the same (shorter ) one lost siphon again. So I guess they need to be the same length. The difference in length is about 1/8 inch.

Some overflow boxes use a "J Tube" instead of a U Tube. They work the same. The main thing is when power is off, BOTH ends of the U/J Tune MUST be submerged. If they are not, something is not set up right. Wrong J Tube orientation, too short or missing standpipe are possibilities.

sjm817 · 03/12/2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by graveyardworm
My overflow has two U tubes, and one is a hair shorter than the other on the short side ( the end in the tank side ). The shorter one is the one that loses siphon.

When the power is off, are all the ends of both U Tubes submerged?

What GPH return pump are you using?

graveyardworm · 03/12/2006, 08:10 PM

Right whats happening is the longer one is continueing to pull the water level down until the shorter one loses siphon.

sjm817 · 03/12/2006, 08:12 PM

You have to fix that. Which side of the U Tube gets exposed? The tank side or the drain side?

BTW, why do you have a mismatched set of U Tubes?

graveyardworm · 03/12/2006, 08:19 PM

It's the tank side that get's exposed, both (actually J) tubes came with it.

graveyardworm · 03/12/2006, 08:23 PM

I've got an idea, what if instead of shortening the longer one. I glue in a piece of acrylic just tall enugh to seperate the tubes so one can draw down lower than the other one without affecting it.

sjm817 · 03/12/2006, 08:28 PM

That's kind of a tough one. The drain box side would be easy to fix with a standpipe. Sometimes raising the level in the rear will also prevent the tank side from dropping as far. Can you put in a taller standpipe in the rear as a test?

Other options

Will one U Tube handle the flow? If so, just run a single tube.

Cut the tubes so they are the same length. I would first try the short one by itself and make sure it doesn't get exposed during power down.

Paintbug · 03/12/2006, 08:29 PM

the level in either side should not even get low enough to matter if ones a little shorter. do you have a peice of PVC coming up from the bulkhead on the drain side? how long is it? thats where the water levels are controlled. once the power/pump is off, the water in the tank should lower until its below the overflow. then the flow stops. at this point both boxes should have water levels higher than the u-tube ends.

03/12/2006, 05:15 PM	#1
teena Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: memphis tn collierville Posts: 1,219	has any one had there syphon overflow break? or is that a rare thing? i was reading on sumps & they said one of the down falls is if the syphon tube gets air in it. it will break & water will soon over flow from your display tank on to the floor. i havent got it up yet but i have hard wood floors & if this happens alot should i go with the hang on the back refugium to be safe, its a 75 g tank. im going to try to keep soft corals __________________ im pouring all my rainey day money in my reef tank, Current Tank Info: 210 inwall w/soft corls

03/12/2006, 05:28 PM	#3
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	I have a two tube overflow, and if we lose power one always loses siphon right away. The other one takes a few hours. When I move this tank in few months it'll be drilled. Thats the best way to go. __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

03/12/2006, 05:28 PM	#4
teena Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: memphis tn collierville Posts: 1,219	is that the only way it would fill with air is if i lose power? it wont do it if its running? __________________ im pouring all my rainey day money in my reef tank, Current Tank Info: 210 inwall w/soft corls

03/12/2006, 05:31 PM	#5
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	As long as there's enough flow a U tube type overflow will shoot the bubbles right through. __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

03/12/2006, 05:31 PM	#6
teena Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: memphis tn collierville Posts: 1,219	RLmainers do u have a pic of yours? __________________ im pouring all my rainey day money in my reef tank, Current Tank Info: 210 inwall w/soft corls

03/12/2006, 05:25 PM	#2
RLMainers Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Maine Posts: 241	We have an overflow into a sump and we drilled holes in our returns in the tank and have a float valve in the sump, so if we lose power and the air breaks the vacuum the water will only fill the sump up to the float valve.

03/12/2006, 05:33 PM	#7
teena Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: memphis tn collierville Posts: 1,219	so if thers more than one way to skin a cat i shouldnt go with the refugium. __________________ im pouring all my rainey day money in my reef tank, Current Tank Info: 210 inwall w/soft corls

03/12/2006, 05:39 PM	#8
RLMainers Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Maine Posts: 241	I don't have pics of my own tank, but the links below show the exact thing that we are doing. http://www.aquacorals.com/ShopOverflows.htm http://www.aquacorals.com/Pics/DryGo...iagram%201.jpg

03/12/2006, 05:45 PM	#9
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	Aqua corals is where I bought my overflow too bad Amiricle seems to have limited thier selection. I'm having trouble picturing how your setup prevents floods RL. Does the float turn off the pump when the sump level gets high or low? __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

03/12/2006, 05:45 PM	#10
ohioreef Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Western Ohio Posts: 3,106	I have never had my U-tube even have air bubbles in it, let alone totally breaking siphon. I lost power for 16+ hours last winter and never lost the siphon. As a post above said, of you have enough flow through the u-tube the bubbles will flow right through. __________________ Gary

03/12/2006, 05:47 PM	#11
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	I wish I could figure out why mine break siphon when the power is out. I have nightmares of tank flooding and pumps burning out while I'm at work. __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

03/12/2006, 05:50 PM	#12
ohioreef Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Western Ohio Posts: 3,106	Is yours an U-tube or one of the CRP models? Maybe you've got a small hole that is covered when the pump is running but exposed when the water level drops when the pump is off. __________________ Gary

03/12/2006, 06:09 PM	#13
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	I've got the U tube Amiricle one. Could the tubes being at very slightly different heights be a possible cause? I cant say if they are, but its just a thought. __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

03/12/2006, 06:24 PM	#14
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	I dont mean to hijack this thread, but hopefully the info helps. I decided to experiment alittle and try to figure it out besides the tubes needed to be cleaned anyway. I shut the valve for my return and waited, after about 1 minute one tube lost siphon, I noticed it was a little shorter than the other one. Cleaned the tubes, switched thier positions in the box, turned the valve back on primed the tubes and let it flow for a minute or two, then shut the valve back off. In about a minute the same (shorter ) one lost siphon again. So I guess they need to be the same length. The difference in length is about 1/8 inch. __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

03/12/2006, 08:02 PM	#16
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Never. There is no reason a decent, properly set up U Tube overflow should ever break siphon. Maybe if the power was off for many months and the water in the skimmer and drain boxes evaporated enough to expose the ends of the U Tube. __________________ - Scott

03/12/2006, 08:05 PM	#17
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	My overflow has two U tubes, and one is a hair shorter than the other on the short side ( the end in the tank side ). The shorter one is the one that loses siphon. edit: I think because the longer one continues to pull the water level down. __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

03/12/2006, 08:10 PM	#20
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	Right whats happening is the longer one is continueing to pull the water level down until the shorter one loses siphon. __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

03/12/2006, 08:12 PM	#21
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	You have to fix that. Which side of the U Tube gets exposed? The tank side or the drain side? BTW, why do you have a mismatched set of U Tubes? __________________ - Scott

03/12/2006, 08:19 PM	#22
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	It's the tank side that get's exposed, both (actually J) tubes came with it. __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

03/12/2006, 08:23 PM	#23
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	I've got an idea, what if instead of shortening the longer one. I glue in a piece of acrylic just tall enugh to seperate the tubes so one can draw down lower than the other one without affecting it. __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

03/12/2006, 08:28 PM	#24
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	That's kind of a tough one. The drain box side would be easy to fix with a standpipe. Sometimes raising the level in the rear will also prevent the tank side from dropping as far. Can you put in a taller standpipe in the rear as a test? Other options Will one U Tube handle the flow? If so, just run a single tube. Cut the tubes so they are the same length. I would first try the short one by itself and make sure it doesn't get exposed during power down. __________________ - Scott

03/12/2006, 08:29 PM	#25
Paintbug Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Stoneville, NC Posts: 6,169	the level in either side should not even get low enough to matter if ones a little shorter. do you have a peice of PVC coming up from the bulkhead on the drain side? how long is it? thats where the water levels are controlled. once the power/pump is off, the water in the tank should lower until its below the overflow. then the flow stops. at this point both boxes should have water levels higher than the u-tube ends. __________________ Never ask a girl over to see your crabs!! <-Tony-> Current Tank Info: NONE currently