Miracle Mud Reefugium

affan · 03/27/2006, 11:54 PM

What's everyone's take on this supposed "Miracle" product? Does it truly reverse MHLLE as advertised or is it another myth? Please share your experiences, if any.

Fishfirst · 03/28/2006, 10:04 AM

Yep it does do that, and more, its THE top of the line filtration method. If I had the money, thats the method I would go with, no skimmer, just miracle mud and some caulerpa in a sump.

sttroyiii · 03/28/2006, 11:32 AM

I think its another myth. There is a site somewhere, I cant remember for the life of me, that tests things like that. I think the results said it was mostly quartz sand, and lots of metals. That scared some people. Supposedly its from the ocean, but their analyzing made it look like it wasnt so natural. Maybe someone remembers that site...it also tested some miracle product that turned out to be magnets mounted to pvc with electrical tape, then covered up with another pvc tube. I think Fishfirst was being sarcastic...?

bureau13 · 03/28/2006, 11:38 AM

I have no idea what's in the mud, or whether or not the mud itself is really necessary, but overall the Ecosystem method does work well. I was reading some posts by Bob Fenner I believe, and he acknowledged as much, although he disagrees that you don't need to run a skimmer. In fact, they do offer a version of their sump that comes with an ASM skimmer, if you prefer to go that route. I am currently running an Ecosystems refugium along with a Remora on my 55 gal. It certainly has not made water changes a thing of the past, but I'm pretty happy with it. For my 240 I will be doing something similar, however it will have to be a custom sump because the appropriately sized Ecosystem unit won't fit in my stand (and is damned expensive as well). I haven't yet decided if I will go with the Miracle Mud, or with some other type of substrate. Maybe I'll mix in the MM from my 55 with something else. Jeff's Miracle Mud Blend!

jds

tom obrecht · 03/28/2006, 11:52 AM

I ran the MM system for about 2 years on my old 180. It did work well for the first 12-18 months. After that it slowly turned around to an average type of tank. I changed the mud and did the "maintenance schedule" as recommended and it still had trouble looking well. I started the system to rid my tank of bryopsis of which it did do in a short amount of time. I still think you should consider a skimmer IMO.

richfavinger · 03/28/2006, 01:28 PM

I do plan on running a skimmer, as always 24/7... So what are your thought of MM as a substrate for the CPR (HOB Large) refugium? Or just take some tank sand? or maybe MM and say a cup of tank sand to seed?

Rich

affan · 03/28/2006, 01:50 PM

Well here's an independant analysis of Miracle Mud.

http://www.inlandreef.com/Testing/MManalysis.html

I just now realized that I've been paying almost ten dollars per lbs for common silica!! 30% SiO2!! That's nothing but beachsand!!!

Fishfirst · 03/28/2006, 01:50 PM

Nope, not being sarcastic at all... I ran into a parasitologist from Troy university that is a big aquarist guy for fourty some years, he definately swears by it.

The high price is just because it isn't mass produced yet, not enough demand.

bureau13 · 03/28/2006, 02:20 PM

I guess I should stop whining about only finding silica sand at Home Depot then!

jds

Quote:

Originally posted by affan
Well here's an independant analysis of Miracle Mud.

http://www.inlandreef.com/Testing/MManalysis.html

I just now realized that I've been paying almost ten dollars per lbs for common silica!! 30% SiO2!! That's nothing but beachsand!!!

kysmith · 03/28/2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by affan
Well here's an independant analysis of Miracle Mud.

http://www.inlandreef.com/Testing/MManalysis.html

I just now realized that I've been paying almost ten dollars per lbs for common silica!! 30% SiO2!! That's nothing but beachsand!!!

not disputing anything but who are these people and what makes them qualified to make this analysis?

mickyfin · 03/28/2006, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kysmith
not disputing anything but who are these people and what makes them qualified to make this analysis?

(Northern Analytical Laboratories, Inc., Merrimack, NH). The test performed was a "Glow Discharge Mass Spectrometry". For this test, major element readings (those above 10,000 ppm or 1%) are approximate, but trace element quantities are very accurate.

http://www.northernanalytical.com/

Seems they are "trace analysis specialists"

Does that answer your question? It was a 30 second google.

sttroyiii · 03/29/2006, 07:39 AM

Yep, thats the site I was trying to remember. It bothers me that it says its 80% oceanic mud...but there arent any particles associated with the ocean?

"no oolitic sand grains, no shell fragments, no diatoms or any other remnants of marine life"

I think the MM does the same thing as a DSB does. Just my opinion...

Huggyjd · 03/29/2006, 12:44 PM

I put a gallon in my fuge, then threw a bag of Arag - Alive on top of it. the fuge is 6 weeks old and full of caulerpa. There are many pods and other critters in the fuge. Not sure if the miracle mud had anything to do with the growth of pods and such after only 6 weeks but i am sure it didn't hurt! So far,the muds doing great!

Airman · 03/29/2006, 01:20 PM

The proof in the pudding. You will know a tree by it's fruit. There seems to be people on this thread that likes Miracle Mud. Experience trumps theory 100% of the time. I have never used it but I put more weight to those who uses it and likes it over analysis. The interpurtation of the analysis can be subjective. I agree with Troy that it sounds like a DSB. There are a lot of variables in the reef tank and the success or failure is not always limited to one thing.

Fishfirst · 03/29/2006, 01:51 PM

the problem with it sounding like a deep sand bed is the fact that it isn't anerobic. It's not made to do that, it's made to be a medium for caulerpa to THRIVE in, and THAT is what takes out all those pesky nitrates, and THAT is what puts in good things in the water to combat HITHLLE, not the mm itself

Stile2 · 03/29/2006, 02:34 PM

I've been using it in my fuge for about a year and a half with good results.
Keith

compulou · 03/30/2006, 07:09 AM

I just dropped a gallon of MM with a nice thick layer of Aragonite sand on top of it in my fuge (new setup). But I plan on using Cheato in here, is this setup ok to use for Cheato?

Thanks

Stile2 · 03/30/2006, 07:30 AM

I have been growing cheato for the past year.

Keith

03/27/2006, 11:54 PM	#1
affan Moved On Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: From NYC, currently serving time in Hattiesburg, MS Posts: 1,125	Miracle Mud Reefugium What's everyone's take on this supposed "Miracle" product? Does it truly reverse MHLLE as advertised or is it another myth? Please share your experiences, if any.

03/28/2006, 10:04 AM	#2
Fishfirst Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 986	Yep it does do that, and more, its THE top of the line filtration method. If I had the money, thats the method I would go with, no skimmer, just miracle mud and some caulerpa in a sump. __________________ Proud member of the Tang Police Current Tank Info: Over 40,000 gallons of saltwater

03/28/2006, 11:52 AM	#5
tom obrecht Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: WI Posts: 3,014	I ran the MM system for about 2 years on my old 180. It did work well for the first 12-18 months. After that it slowly turned around to an average type of tank. I changed the mud and did the "maintenance schedule" as recommended and it still had trouble looking well. I started the system to rid my tank of bryopsis of which it did do in a short amount of time. I still think you should consider a skimmer IMO. __________________ Reef keeping is where Murphy's Law and your bank account collide!! TOTM May 2006

03/28/2006, 01:28 PM	#6
richfavinger Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Pottstown, PA Posts: 866	I do plan on running a skimmer, as always 24/7... So what are your thought of MM as a substrate for the CPR (HOB Large) refugium? Or just take some tank sand? or maybe MM and say a cup of tank sand to seed? Rich __________________ Rich Current Tank Info: DSA 135g (48x24x27) Starphire, Elite Aquatics M2 Sump, Reef Octopus Diablo DCS200-INT, GEO 612 Calcium Reactor + AP Carbon Doser, 2x Radion Pro Gen2, 2x VorTech MP40

03/28/2006, 01:50 PM	#8
Fishfirst Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 986	Nope, not being sarcastic at all... I ran into a parasitologist from Troy university that is a big aquarist guy for fourty some years, he definately swears by it. The high price is just because it isn't mass produced yet, not enough demand. __________________ Proud member of the Tang Police Current Tank Info: Over 40,000 gallons of saltwater

03/28/2006, 11:32 AM	#3
sttroyiii Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 378	I think its another myth. There is a site somewhere, I cant remember for the life of me, that tests things like that. I think the results said it was mostly quartz sand, and lots of metals. That scared some people. Supposedly its from the ocean, but their analyzing made it look like it wasnt so natural. Maybe someone remembers that site...it also tested some miracle product that turned out to be magnets mounted to pvc with electrical tape, then covered up with another pvc tube. I think Fishfirst was being sarcastic...?

03/28/2006, 11:38 AM	#4
bureau13 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,936	I have no idea what's in the mud, or whether or not the mud itself is really necessary, but overall the Ecosystem method does work well. I was reading some posts by Bob Fenner I believe, and he acknowledged as much, although he disagrees that you don't need to run a skimmer. In fact, they do offer a version of their sump that comes with an ASM skimmer, if you prefer to go that route. I am currently running an Ecosystems refugium along with a Remora on my 55 gal. It certainly has not made water changes a thing of the past, but I'm pretty happy with it. For my 240 I will be doing something similar, however it will have to be a custom sump because the appropriately sized Ecosystem unit won't fit in my stand (and is damned expensive as well). I haven't yet decided if I will go with the Miracle Mud, or with some other type of substrate. Maybe I'll mix in the MM from my 55 with something else. Jeff's Miracle Mud Blend! jds

03/29/2006, 07:39 AM	#12
sttroyiii Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 378	Yep, thats the site I was trying to remember. It bothers me that it says its 80% oceanic mud...but there arent any particles associated with the ocean? "no oolitic sand grains, no shell fragments, no diatoms or any other remnants of marine life" I think the MM does the same thing as a DSB does. Just my opinion...

03/29/2006, 12:44 PM	#13
Huggyjd Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 226	I put a gallon in my fuge, then threw a bag of Arag - Alive on top of it. the fuge is 6 weeks old and full of caulerpa. There are many pods and other critters in the fuge. Not sure if the miracle mud had anything to do with the growth of pods and such after only 6 weeks but i am sure it didn't hurt! So far,the muds doing great! __________________ When I get old I will move up north and drive slow! Current Tank Info: 150 reef, asm g-3 skimmer.60 gal refugium, 3 250w xm halides running on icecap ballasts,2 uri vho's running on icecap660

03/29/2006, 01:20 PM	#14
Airman Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 643	The proof in the pudding. You will know a tree by it's fruit. There seems to be people on this thread that likes Miracle Mud. Experience trumps theory 100% of the time. I have never used it but I put more weight to those who uses it and likes it over analysis. The interpurtation of the analysis can be subjective. I agree with Troy that it sounds like a DSB. There are a lot of variables in the reef tank and the success or failure is not always limited to one thing. __________________ What is man, that thou art mindful of him?...:) Current Tank Info: 55 Gal, DSB, protein skimmer, UV light, Sump/Refugium

03/29/2006, 01:51 PM	#15
Fishfirst Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 986	the problem with it sounding like a deep sand bed is the fact that it isn't anerobic. It's not made to do that, it's made to be a medium for caulerpa to THRIVE in, and THAT is what takes out all those pesky nitrates, and THAT is what puts in good things in the water to combat HITHLLE, not the mm itself __________________ Proud member of the Tang Police Current Tank Info: Over 40,000 gallons of saltwater

03/29/2006, 02:34 PM	#16
Stile2 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yucaipa, California (some little town you've never heard of) Posts: 1,624	I've been using it in my fuge for about a year and a half with good results. Keith __________________ If you have a college degree, you can be sure of one thing. You have a college degree! Superman owns Chuck Norris Pajamas!! Current Tank Info: 77 Gallon Custom peninsula 3 sides viewable, DIY Steel Stand, OM Squirt, 2 x 250 w MH, 2 x 95 w VHO, DIY Skimmer

03/30/2006, 07:09 AM	#17
compulou Moved On Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 951	I just dropped a gallon of MM with a nice thick layer of Aragonite sand on top of it in my fuge (new setup). But I plan on using Cheato in here, is this setup ok to use for Cheato? Thanks

03/30/2006, 07:30 AM	#18
Stile2 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yucaipa, California (some little town you've never heard of) Posts: 1,624	I have been growing cheato for the past year. Keith __________________ If you have a college degree, you can be sure of one thing. You have a college degree! Superman owns Chuck Norris Pajamas!! Current Tank Info: 77 Gallon Custom peninsula 3 sides viewable, DIY Steel Stand, OM Squirt, 2 x 250 w MH, 2 x 95 w VHO, DIY Skimmer