siphoning LS or all dies!

mujtba · 04/09/2006, 08:20 PM

My LFS said today that I should siphon my LS. I had my tank for 2yrs, and never did it and so far so good.

But I do have some black spots in some areas in my sand. He said that is all dead stuff which will raise nitrates sooner or later.

He said the black stuff in the sand will one day just destroy everything in the tank.. he said the nitrates will one day skyrocket..

Is this true? Do you all siphon your sandbeds?

If so, how do you siphon the sand? It is not gravel and can get sucked up..

Any other methods?

I usually change 8G of water a week. Isn't that enough for my 75G tank to remove the wastes and keep nitrates low always?

Can a tonge queen snail or a lawnmower blenny or some creature stir the sand and eat it up???

Is what he said TRUE? help...

Someone else said to raise my flowrate will help..

i duno wat to do.

Mike 1911A1 · 04/09/2006, 08:30 PM

How deep is your sand bed? If it's a DSB, then I wouldn't siphon it as you may cause more problems. I have a blue diamond goby and while he is carnivorous, he sifts through the entire sand bed of my 90g AGA on a daily basis keeping it very white. Someone else here will give you good advice on your sand bed....I would not do anything my LFS said unless I first confirmed it with someone here that has experience.

Mike

mg426 · 04/09/2006, 09:30 PM

....I would not do anything my LFS said unless I first confirmed it with someone here that has experience.

Mike

Now there is some good advice !!!!!!!!

BigWaz · 04/09/2006, 09:30 PM

shrimp gobies with the pistol shrimp do an excellent job on that. But make sure that your live rock is laying on the bottom of the tank and not just the top of the sand bed, i had that problem, it was very annoying

OnTheReef · 04/09/2006, 10:02 PM

If you have black deposits under the surface of your DSB, these might be deposits of elemental sulphur, that, if released into your tank, could be deadly as Mike 1911A1 points out. However, as long as the top 1" or so of your DSB remains aerobic and the sulphur deposits do not grow to the point where they are exposed to the aerobic part of the sand bed and start releasing hydrogen sulfide, you can do more harm by disturbing them and in fact such deposits are considered a normal part of a mature DSB.

Using a piece of rigid air tubing, poke a few very small exploratory holes in your DSB and see how many black deposits you have in the upper 1" of your sand bed. If any bubbles escape from black substrate, STOP POKING, since you are releasing hydrogen sulfide, which is deadly to your critters. If your whole sand bed has them, your DSB is going anaerobic and you are sitting on a ticking time bomb. If, as is the more usual case, you find a few patches here and there, you can use sandsifting stars or gobies to keep your sand bed more aerobic and you can also use a large vacuum siphon to suck up the black patches, sand and all. If you do this, be sure to suck out ALL the black substrate of a patch you disturb. You should only do this if the patches are a few square inches, any bigger than that and you risk letting hydrogen sulfide into the tank water as oxygenated water contacts the elemental sulpur and it oxidizes to hydrogen sulfide.

If your tank ever develops a rotten egg smell (hydrogen sulfide), you should immediately run carbon and evacuate the tank inhabitants and take down the DSB.

In answer to your query, I do my water changes with a vacuum siphon so I can simultaneously turn the top 1" of the sand bed and remove the brown gook that collects in it. Any substrate that gets vacuumed up can be washed in some of the water you use for water changes and returned to the tank.

mujtba · 04/10/2006, 05:30 AM

well i believe i have a 3-4inch sand bed. BUT a lot of my sand seems to have shifted to the back of tank, and the front seems to be about 2inches. I don't see black spots all over the tank, but more towards the bottom..

how do I prevent the 'sulphur deposits ' from growing? any creatures that can help me out?

i don't think I can vacuum.. that may ruin everything..

towards the front of my tank where there is only 2inch of sand, can I add more sand? if so, what kind of sand? or do i leave it alone?

mujtba · 04/10/2006, 09:51 AM

?

OnTheReef · 04/10/2006, 10:36 AM

Sulphur forms from anaerobic bacteria digesting organic matter. The less detritus for them to digest, the less sulphur they can deposit. This is why you should vacuum your substrate and have critters to turn over the substrate. A sandsifting starfish or a sandsifting gobie are good choices, although you should be aware that they eat copepods, which are detritus eaters, so you need a good supply of copepods coming from your refugium. A rubble pile and feeding with DT's Phytoplankton are all you need to grow *lots* of copepods, so this is a trade-off I am willing to make. You could also look into a tiger cucumber, which is a very gentle detritus eater and it doesn't eat copepods. Be aware that a LOT of sea cucumbers are toxic and that they occassionally get misidentified by LFSs, so be sure you know what you are buying if you get a sea cucumber. You also need heater guards and intake guards on any circulation equipment; they *will* crawl on them.

Since you don't have black deposits on the suface of your substrate, I think you could *gently* vacuum the surface of your substrate once a week to cut down on trapped detritus.

mujtba · 04/10/2006, 01:34 PM

i am buying 2 fighting conch snails. will that be enough? i dont have a refugium or sump... am i stuck? i have sand, so if I vacuum im afraid i will make everything cloudy and all the sulphur will rise.

mujtba · 04/10/2006, 02:46 PM

?

Salty Brother · 04/10/2006, 02:59 PM

I have also wondered about this, I have heard that people tanks will crash after a few years, I have a shrimp goby, and soon to get pistol shrimp, I vacummed a little of my sand the past water change will I be ok?
Thanks

mujtba · 04/10/2006, 05:08 PM

1. towards the front of my tank where there is only 2inch of sand, can I add more sand? if so, what kind of sand? or do i leave it alone?

2. i am buying 2 fighting conch snails. will that be enough? i dont have a refugium or sump... am i stuck? i have sand, so if I vacuum im afraid i will make everything cloudy and all the sulphur will rise.

mujtba · 04/10/2006, 07:50 PM

?

04/09/2006, 08:20 PM	#1
mujtba Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 693	siphoning LS or all dies! My LFS said today that I should siphon my LS. I had my tank for 2yrs, and never did it and so far so good. But I do have some black spots in some areas in my sand. He said that is all dead stuff which will raise nitrates sooner or later. He said the black stuff in the sand will one day just destroy everything in the tank.. he said the nitrates will one day skyrocket.. Is this true? Do you all siphon your sandbeds? If so, how do you siphon the sand? It is not gravel and can get sucked up.. Any other methods? I usually change 8G of water a week. Isn't that enough for my 75G tank to remove the wastes and keep nitrates low always? Can a tonge queen snail or a lawnmower blenny or some creature stir the sand and eat it up??? Is what he said TRUE? help... Someone else said to raise my flowrate will help.. i duno wat to do.

04/09/2006, 09:30 PM	#3
mg426 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: maryland Posts: 6,923	....I would not do anything my LFS said unless I first confirmed it with someone here that has experience. Mike Now there is some good advice !!!!!!!! __________________ I found a way to make a small fortune running a reef tank. Start with a large fortune. Unofficial President of the SEACLONE haters club Current Tank Info: 125 mixed reef 110 lbs LR, 1x250watt XM 20K MH 2x175watt XM 20K MH on Magetics 2X96 watt actinic PC, 220 watt VHO actinic, 30 gallon refugium, closed loop system powered by Sequence Dart MSX 200 skimmer 38 gallon sump, Oceansmotions squirt

04/09/2006, 10:02 PM	#5
OnTheReef Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 340	If you have black deposits under the surface of your DSB, these might be deposits of elemental sulphur, that, if released into your tank, could be deadly as Mike 1911A1 points out. However, as long as the top 1" or so of your DSB remains aerobic and the sulphur deposits do not grow to the point where they are exposed to the aerobic part of the sand bed and start releasing hydrogen sulfide, you can do more harm by disturbing them and in fact such deposits are considered a normal part of a mature DSB. Using a piece of rigid air tubing, poke a few very small exploratory holes in your DSB and see how many black deposits you have in the upper 1" of your sand bed. If any bubbles escape from black substrate, STOP POKING, since you are releasing hydrogen sulfide, which is deadly to your critters. If your whole sand bed has them, your DSB is going anaerobic and you are sitting on a ticking time bomb. If, as is the more usual case, you find a few patches here and there, you can use sandsifting stars or gobies to keep your sand bed more aerobic and you can also use a large vacuum siphon to suck up the black patches, sand and all. If you do this, be sure to suck out ALL the black substrate of a patch you disturb. You should only do this if the patches are a few square inches, any bigger than that and you risk letting hydrogen sulfide into the tank water as oxygenated water contacts the elemental sulpur and it oxidizes to hydrogen sulfide. If your tank ever develops a rotten egg smell (hydrogen sulfide), you should immediately run carbon and evacuate the tank inhabitants and take down the DSB. In answer to your query, I do my water changes with a vacuum siphon so I can simultaneously turn the top 1" of the sand bed and remove the brown gook that collects in it. Any substrate that gets vacuumed up can be washed in some of the water you use for water changes and returned to the tank. __________________ 100 gallon reef tank, 40 gallon sump/fuge combo with RDSB 2x ASM G2 with gate valve mod TLF phos reactor w/Rowaphos, Seachem Nitrate sponge 4x55w 50/50 actinic PC Current USA 0 amm, 0 nitrite, 0 n Current Tank Info: 50 & 100 gallon reef tanks

04/10/2006, 10:36 AM	#8
OnTheReef Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 340	Sulphur forms from anaerobic bacteria digesting organic matter. The less detritus for them to digest, the less sulphur they can deposit. This is why you should vacuum your substrate and have critters to turn over the substrate. A sandsifting starfish or a sandsifting gobie are good choices, although you should be aware that they eat copepods, which are detritus eaters, so you need a good supply of copepods coming from your refugium. A rubble pile and feeding with DT's Phytoplankton are all you need to grow lots of copepods, so this is a trade-off I am willing to make. You could also look into a tiger cucumber, which is a very gentle detritus eater and it doesn't eat copepods. Be aware that a LOT of sea cucumbers are toxic and that they occassionally get misidentified by LFSs, so be sure you know what you are buying if you get a sea cucumber. You also need heater guards and intake guards on any circulation equipment; they will crawl on them. Since you don't have black deposits on the suface of your substrate, I think you could gently vacuum the surface of your substrate once a week to cut down on trapped detritus. __________________ 100 gallon reef tank, 40 gallon sump/fuge combo with RDSB 2x ASM G2 with gate valve mod TLF phos reactor w/Rowaphos, Seachem Nitrate sponge 4x55w 50/50 actinic PC Current USA 0 amm, 0 nitrite, 0 n Current Tank Info: 50 & 100 gallon reef tanks

04/09/2006, 08:30 PM	#2
Mike 1911A1 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 324	How deep is your sand bed? If it's a DSB, then I wouldn't siphon it as you may cause more problems. I have a blue diamond goby and while he is carnivorous, he sifts through the entire sand bed of my 90g AGA on a daily basis keeping it very white. Someone else here will give you good advice on your sand bed....I would not do anything my LFS said unless I first confirmed it with someone here that has experience. Mike

04/09/2006, 09:30 PM	#4
BigWaz Krazy Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Plainville, CT Posts: 846	shrimp gobies with the pistol shrimp do an excellent job on that. But make sure that your live rock is laying on the bottom of the tank and not just the top of the sand bed, i had that problem, it was very annoying

04/10/2006, 05:30 AM	#6
mujtba Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 693	well i believe i have a 3-4inch sand bed. BUT a lot of my sand seems to have shifted to the back of tank, and the front seems to be about 2inches. I don't see black spots all over the tank, but more towards the bottom.. how do I prevent the 'sulphur deposits ' from growing? any creatures that can help me out? i don't think I can vacuum.. that may ruin everything.. towards the front of my tank where there is only 2inch of sand, can I add more sand? if so, what kind of sand? or do i leave it alone?

04/10/2006, 09:51 AM	#7
mujtba Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 693	?

04/10/2006, 01:34 PM	#9
mujtba Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 693	i am buying 2 fighting conch snails. will that be enough? i dont have a refugium or sump... am i stuck? i have sand, so if I vacuum im afraid i will make everything cloudy and all the sulphur will rise.

04/10/2006, 02:46 PM	#10
mujtba Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 693	?

04/10/2006, 02:59 PM	#11
Salty Brother Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 1,119	I have also wondered about this, I have heard that people tanks will crash after a few years, I have a shrimp goby, and soon to get pistol shrimp, I vacummed a little of my sand the past water change will I be ok? Thanks

04/10/2006, 05:08 PM	#12
mujtba Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 693	1. towards the front of my tank where there is only 2inch of sand, can I add more sand? if so, what kind of sand? or do i leave it alone? 2. i am buying 2 fighting conch snails. will that be enough? i dont have a refugium or sump... am i stuck? i have sand, so if I vacuum im afraid i will make everything cloudy and all the sulphur will rise.

04/10/2006, 07:50 PM	#13
mujtba Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 693	?