CA Reactor and hair algae

rnelson · 04/11/2006, 03:23 PM

I have a 240 reef with a really bad outbreak of hair algae....I can't pick the stuff fast enough. I have a good sized cleanup crew, 4 tangs, and a sea hare, but they don't look like they touch the stuff....maybe it's too long. I have gotten behind on my water changes, I had a problem with my skimmer at one point, and my macroalgae in my fuge has mostly died....so I know those are contributing greatly to the problem. I'm doing another water change this week, I ordered more macroalgae for the fuge and should get it this week, the skimmer is now adjusted and fine....my calcium is pretty low right now. Would getting a calcium reactor help with this algae problem? I've read a little about them but I'm no expert. I'm evaporating about 18-20 gallons a week.....would a nielsen reactor serve just as good a purpose? I don't have much SPS in there, some polyps though.

Thanks!

Mr James · 04/11/2006, 03:34 PM

What salt do you use?? You may also want to think about a phosphate reactor. I hear they sell for $30 - $40 or so. I do not have one but plan to soon. Out of curiosity, what kind of skimmer are you using and is it "big" enough to handle your 240g tank's bio-load??

rnelson · 04/11/2006, 03:38 PM

I use mostly Instant Ocean. I've used some Oceanic but switched back to IO. I'm using a 6-stage RO/DI and have an auto-topoff system. The skimmer is a EuroReef CS8-2, maybe a little underpowered but not bad.

I've got a Fluval 304 cannister filter (left over from my FW days) that I was thinking about loading up with ROWAphos...

chadfarmer · 04/11/2006, 05:29 PM

check phosphates (in tank and r.o.)

how old are lights

cut back on feeding a little

calcium reactor will not help

rnelson · 04/11/2006, 06:58 PM

Very interesting results:

Tap Water
Nitrate = 0
TDH = 688 (I knew this was high, no surprise here)
PO4 = 0

RO/DI water
Nitrate = 0
TDH = 22 (pretty good when you look at what I started with)
PO4 = .25

Tank Water
Nitrate = 40
PO4 = .25

Looks like, for some reason, my RO/DI is putting out PO4.

Any suggestions? Get a different RO/DI?

Mr James · 04/12/2006, 07:06 AM

WOW, the TDS for your DI is 22?? If so, that needs to be ZERO!! You don't need a new RO/DI system, you just need some new cartidges.

rnelson · 04/12/2006, 07:17 AM

I bought all new filters for my RO/DI about 3 months ago.....I installed all of them last night. The TFC membrane was a 97% 110gpd, the one I have on there now is a 99% 75gpd, so it's a tighter membrane. I ran water thru it for about 30 minutes last night and then retested. PO4 was .1 and TDS was 5......better numbers. I need to run a couple of more hours thru it and then retest.

What would make an RO/DI unit produce PO4?

Mr James · 04/12/2006, 07:24 AM

Whew!! I'm glad you were proactive about new membranes. As for your question, a very uneducated guess would be that the membranes were saturated with gunk and they were working to their optimal performance. Lame answer, I know. I'm just saying that bad membranes can do some crazy things to your water column. If you were using Oceanic salt, then I would recommend NOT using it. I had a bad hair algae outbreak and swithched salts and it all disappeared in a matter of days.

rnelson · 04/12/2006, 08:40 AM

Well, I don't have a better theory than you, so I'll go with yours.....I'm still getting 5 THD, but maybe that will drop to 0 when I run water for a couple of hours......thanks for your reply

elosusa · 04/12/2006, 09:39 AM

What test kits are you using? Those are some strange readings........

HowardW · 04/12/2006, 09:50 AM

How long was your skimmer not working correctly?

mburnickas · 04/12/2006, 10:16 AM

rnelson

Don't feel bad, I have the same issue as you. I am HOPING it is my bad bulbs in my TEK light....since everthing else is fine.

rnelson · 04/12/2006, 10:20 AM

elosusa,
Agreed, they are strange....maybe I'd be better off using just tap water! The test kit is Salifert.

HowardW,
The skimmer was not working for about a month.....

mburnickas,
I have 4 250W MH's to go along with my VHO actinics.....the MH bulbs are 20K XM's....about 4 months old.

HowardW · 04/12/2006, 10:33 AM

I would just keep up on doing small water changes making sure to use water as free of phosphate/silicates as possible and let your skimmer keep pulling the nutrients out of the water, and the new macroalgae in your fuge should also help. After a couple weeks you may see the hair algae stop flourishing and I would start to manually remove it then.

rnelson · 04/12/2006, 10:50 AM

Will all the hair algae shrink up and separate from the LR or will I need to pull it?

mburnickas · 04/12/2006, 11:02 AM

My LR is cleaned by turbo snails...work great. Mine is just the sand...

HowardW · 04/12/2006, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rnelson
Will all the hair algae shrink up and separate from the LR or will I need to pull it?

Well depending on how thick it is on your rock it may not 100% go away, and you may have to end up removing a couple rocks at a time to manually brush it off. The skimmer should help with the stuff that becomes loose in the water and hopefully your cleaning crew will help out a bit too. I would also make sure you have really good flow/circulation throughout the tank as hair algae seems to really flourish in stagnant/dead spots in the tank in my experiences.

chadfarmer · 04/12/2006, 02:20 PM

125 gal per day ro/di is the problem

if you change all the filters and test just the membrane and has phosphatesm

maybe membrane

i had the same problem with mine

i had a cheap ebay unit and had hair algea (like crazy)

i upgraded and in a month it was almost gone

jdieck · 04/12/2006, 03:37 PM

Keep monitoring your RO/DI. Low rejection membranes like the one you had (which I could bet it was 90% and not 97%) can exaust DI cartridges fast and an exausted DI cartridge can release contaminants back into the water.
The strengest thing is not testing any phosphates or Nitrates in a tap water with so many TDS, not unheard off but highly improvable.
Although keeping high Alkalinity may help with some algaes a calcium reactor although can help with the alkalinity it might not help or even can make your algae problem worst. Calcium reactor adds some CO2 to the system which might promote the growth of the algae unless you have very low nutrients and the algae is limited by Nitrates and or phosphates. Because it seems you have a nutrient accumulation problem so chances are Nitrates and Phosphates are not the limitation and in such a case I would recomend Kalk rather than a Calcium reactor and continue working on improving the husbandry:
General actions include:
a) pull out as much of the algae as possible
b) increased water changes using good RO/DI for your salt mix
c) Increased skimming (larger skimmer, second skimmer and / or wetter foam)
d) Increased flow circulation
e) Reduced feeding
f) Use Organics adsorbing media like activated carbon and Purigen
g) Blow off detritus from rock pores while running a bag or a mechanical filter
h) Good move in upgrading your refugium macroalgae to increase export, keep a good circulation in it.
i) If you have a sand bed improved pod and sand shifting critters to improve upon a functioning deep sand bed.
j) Use phosphate adsorbing media (Phosban or Rowaphos are very effective)

Good Luck!

mburnickas · 04/12/2006, 03:40 PM

good list.

I would also add checking lights since that was my last issue and it is again..

rnelson · 04/12/2006, 04:03 PM

I've been lazy on water changes....need to improve that.....I ordered 500ml of ROWAphos today....should be here Friday.....I have an extra Fluval 304 from my FW days, so I'm going to use that in the sump and load it up with the ROWAphos. I don't think I'm overfeeding. The MH is about 4 months old. I also ordered another Salifert PO4 test kit, just to make sure about my readings.

jdieck · 04/12/2006, 05:01 PM

Keep up the good work and the algae will be gone in no time.

rnelson · 04/12/2006, 05:10 PM

Thanks, I hope so! Right now I'm emarassed for anyone to see it.

04/11/2006, 03:23 PM	#1
rnelson Shark Obsessed Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 593	CA Reactor and hair algae I have a 240 reef with a really bad outbreak of hair algae....I can't pick the stuff fast enough. I have a good sized cleanup crew, 4 tangs, and a sea hare, but they don't look like they touch the stuff....maybe it's too long. I have gotten behind on my water changes, I had a problem with my skimmer at one point, and my macroalgae in my fuge has mostly died....so I know those are contributing greatly to the problem. I'm doing another water change this week, I ordered more macroalgae for the fuge and should get it this week, the skimmer is now adjusted and fine....my calcium is pretty low right now. Would getting a calcium reactor help with this algae problem? I've read a little about them but I'm no expert. I'm evaporating about 18-20 gallons a week.....would a nielsen reactor serve just as good a purpose? I don't have much SPS in there, some polyps though. Thanks!

04/11/2006, 05:29 PM	#4
chadfarmer Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: ST Charles, MO far from nanook Posts: 11,045 Blog Entries: 1	check phosphates (in tank and r.o.) how old are lights cut back on feeding a little calcium reactor will not help __________________ If you think you know the answer than ask 3 more people the question Current Tank Info: 200 Gal RR,ATB medium, 4 AI blue sol,230 LBS LIVE ROCK, no sand , 40 GAL sump, airstar1800, 3 tunze 6105 1- 6205 1-6305, Geo 818, profilux3ex with toys

04/12/2006, 09:39 AM	#10
elosusa RC Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NorCal Posts: 272	What test kits are you using? Those are some strange readings........ __________________ Jesse 877-373-0105(Toll Free) 925-600-8020(Office) info@elosusa.com www.facebook.com/elosusa Current Tank Info: yes

04/12/2006, 09:50 AM	#11
HowardW Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Aurora, IL Posts: 1,763	How long was your skimmer not working correctly? __________________ Florida live rock addict

04/12/2006, 10:16 AM	#12
mburnickas Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: MA Posts: 684	rnelson Don't feel bad, I have the same issue as you. I am HOPING it is my bad bulbs in my TEK light....since everthing else is fine. __________________ Thanks Mike Current Tank Info: 75 gal; Tek T5 lights, reef tank with low to mod coral; wavemaker with maxjet ph; red sea ozone with orp at 350 (and going higher); Ev-120 protein skimmer; quiet one 3000 main pump

04/11/2006, 03:34 PM	#2
Mr James Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kernersville, NC Posts: 6,192	What salt do you use?? You may also want to think about a phosphate reactor. I hear they sell for $30 - $40 or so. I do not have one but plan to soon. Out of curiosity, what kind of skimmer are you using and is it "big" enough to handle your 240g tank's bio-load??

04/11/2006, 03:38 PM	#3
rnelson Shark Obsessed Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 593	I use mostly Instant Ocean. I've used some Oceanic but switched back to IO. I'm using a 6-stage RO/DI and have an auto-topoff system. The skimmer is a EuroReef CS8-2, maybe a little underpowered but not bad. I've got a Fluval 304 cannister filter (left over from my FW days) that I was thinking about loading up with ROWAphos...

04/11/2006, 06:58 PM	#5
rnelson Shark Obsessed Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 593	Very interesting results: Tap Water Nitrate = 0 TDH = 688 (I knew this was high, no surprise here) PO4 = 0 RO/DI water Nitrate = 0 TDH = 22 (pretty good when you look at what I started with) PO4 = *.25* Tank Water Nitrate = 40 PO4 = .25 Looks like, for some reason, my RO/DI is putting out PO4. Any suggestions? Get a different RO/DI?

04/12/2006, 07:06 AM	#6
Mr James Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kernersville, NC Posts: 6,192	WOW, the TDS for your DI is 22?? If so, that needs to be ZERO!! You don't need a new RO/DI system, you just need some new cartidges.

04/12/2006, 07:17 AM	#7
rnelson Shark Obsessed Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 593	I bought all new filters for my RO/DI about 3 months ago.....I installed all of them last night. The TFC membrane was a 97% 110gpd, the one I have on there now is a 99% 75gpd, so it's a tighter membrane. I ran water thru it for about 30 minutes last night and then retested. PO4 was .1 and TDS was 5......better numbers. I need to run a couple of more hours thru it and then retest. What would make an RO/DI unit produce PO4?

04/12/2006, 07:24 AM	#8
Mr James Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kernersville, NC Posts: 6,192	Whew!! I'm glad you were proactive about new membranes. As for your question, a very uneducated guess would be that the membranes were saturated with gunk and they were working to their optimal performance. Lame answer, I know. I'm just saying that bad membranes can do some crazy things to your water column. If you were using Oceanic salt, then I would recommend NOT using it. I had a bad hair algae outbreak and swithched salts and it all disappeared in a matter of days.

04/12/2006, 08:40 AM	#9
rnelson Shark Obsessed Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 593	Well, I don't have a better theory than you, so I'll go with yours.....I'm still getting 5 THD, but maybe that will drop to 0 when I run water for a couple of hours......thanks for your reply

04/12/2006, 10:20 AM	#13
rnelson Shark Obsessed Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 593	elosusa, Agreed, they are strange....maybe I'd be better off using just tap water! The test kit is Salifert. HowardW, The skimmer was not working for about a month..... mburnickas, I have 4 250W MH's to go along with my VHO actinics.....the MH bulbs are 20K XM's....about 4 months old.

04/12/2006, 10:33 AM	#14
HowardW Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Aurora, IL Posts: 1,763	I would just keep up on doing small water changes making sure to use water as free of phosphate/silicates as possible and let your skimmer keep pulling the nutrients out of the water, and the new macroalgae in your fuge should also help. After a couple weeks you may see the hair algae stop flourishing and I would start to manually remove it then. __________________ Florida live rock addict

04/12/2006, 10:50 AM	#15
rnelson Shark Obsessed Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 593	Will all the hair algae shrink up and separate from the LR or will I need to pull it?

04/12/2006, 11:02 AM	#16
mburnickas Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: MA Posts: 684	My LR is cleaned by turbo snails...work great. Mine is just the sand... __________________ Thanks Mike Current Tank Info: 75 gal; Tek T5 lights, reef tank with low to mod coral; wavemaker with maxjet ph; red sea ozone with orp at 350 (and going higher); Ev-120 protein skimmer; quiet one 3000 main pump

04/12/2006, 02:20 PM	#18
chadfarmer Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: ST Charles, MO far from nanook Posts: 11,045 Blog Entries: 1	125 gal per day ro/di is the problem if you change all the filters and test just the membrane and has phosphatesm maybe membrane i had the same problem with mine i had a cheap ebay unit and had hair algea (like crazy) i upgraded and in a month it was almost gone __________________ If you think you know the answer than ask 3 more people the question Current Tank Info: 200 Gal RR,ATB medium, 4 AI blue sol,230 LBS LIVE ROCK, no sand , 40 GAL sump, airstar1800, 3 tunze 6105 1- 6205 1-6305, Geo 818, profilux3ex with toys

04/12/2006, 03:37 PM	#19
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	Keep monitoring your RO/DI. Low rejection membranes like the one you had (which I could bet it was 90% and not 97%) can exaust DI cartridges fast and an exausted DI cartridge can release contaminants back into the water. The strengest thing is not testing any phosphates or Nitrates in a tap water with so many TDS, not unheard off but highly improvable. Although keeping high Alkalinity may help with some algaes a calcium reactor although can help with the alkalinity it might not help or even can make your algae problem worst. Calcium reactor adds some CO2 to the system which might promote the growth of the algae unless you have very low nutrients and the algae is limited by Nitrates and or phosphates. Because it seems you have a nutrient accumulation problem so chances are Nitrates and Phosphates are not the limitation and in such a case I would recomend Kalk rather than a Calcium reactor and continue working on improving the husbandry: General actions include: a) pull out as much of the algae as possible b) increased water changes using good RO/DI for your salt mix c) Increased skimming (larger skimmer, second skimmer and / or wetter foam) d) Increased flow circulation e) Reduced feeding f) Use Organics adsorbing media like activated carbon and Purigen g) Blow off detritus from rock pores while running a bag or a mechanical filter h) Good move in upgrading your refugium macroalgae to increase export, keep a good circulation in it. i) If you have a sand bed improved pod and sand shifting critters to improve upon a functioning deep sand bed. j) Use phosphate adsorbing media (Phosban or Rowaphos are very effective) Good Luck! __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

04/12/2006, 03:40 PM	#20
mburnickas Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: MA Posts: 684	good list. I would also add checking lights since that was my last issue and it is again.. __________________ Thanks Mike Current Tank Info: 75 gal; Tek T5 lights, reef tank with low to mod coral; wavemaker with maxjet ph; red sea ozone with orp at 350 (and going higher); Ev-120 protein skimmer; quiet one 3000 main pump

04/12/2006, 04:03 PM	#21
rnelson Shark Obsessed Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 593	I've been lazy on water changes....need to improve that.....I ordered 500ml of ROWAphos today....should be here Friday.....I have an extra Fluval 304 from my FW days, so I'm going to use that in the sump and load it up with the ROWAphos. I don't think I'm overfeeding. The MH is about 4 months old. I also ordered another Salifert PO4 test kit, just to make sure about my readings.

04/12/2006, 05:01 PM	#22
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	Keep up the good work and the algae will be gone in no time. __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

04/12/2006, 05:10 PM	#23
rnelson Shark Obsessed Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 593	Thanks, I hope so! Right now I'm emarassed for anyone to see it.