what's the secret for coraline

sltwtrlvr · 04/25/2006, 03:29 PM

I'm wondering how can I spread my coraline? All of my tests came out very good. Clam is doing excellent. I have had this tank for almost two years. There's very very few of coraline. I have 150W 14K lights. What is the secret to it???

Thanks
Michelle

kau_cinta_ku · 04/25/2006, 03:48 PM

i have read the blue lights also help promote the growth. what is you calium and alk. reading?

rustybucket145 · 04/25/2006, 04:05 PM

calcium and alkalinity are the most important things with coraline

your calcium should be in the 400-475 range

sltwtrlvr · 04/25/2006, 06:01 PM

What is alkalinity? What is the supplement for it?

My calcium is at between 450 and 500 with kalwasser dripper.

thanks.
michelle

WaterKeeper · 04/25/2006, 06:17 PM

Hi Michelle,

It seems rather strange for a two year old tank not to have much coralline. Usually most people somewhat curse it as it needs to be scraped off the glass and such. Have you had those lights for two years? If so, it may be time to re-bulb. Fading lights put out poor spectral characteristics. If you have more than one try a 14 and a lower K to balance things. With a KW drip you should have sufficient alk but here is more information on Alkalinity.

sltwtrlvr · 04/25/2006, 06:19 PM

i just purchased the bulbs last month. I used the other bulb at 150 W 10K but I replaced them about every six months.

WaterKeeper · 04/25/2006, 06:21 PM

Let me ponder this as it is a true mystery. Get back to you on tomorrow.

davefeag · 04/25/2006, 08:57 PM

I believe alkalinity refers to PH.

-dave

davefeag · 04/25/2006, 08:59 PM

I asked around and several people said when they desire more coraline they increase the ph gradually.

-dave

diemaker · 04/25/2006, 09:17 PM

alkalinity relates to kh do a search an you will find lots of good stuff

sltwtrlvr · 04/25/2006, 10:06 PM

what's the best timing for each light, regular light and blue light to get a good coralline?

thanks
michelle

bertoni · 04/26/2006, 12:15 AM

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

That article is a good place to start on water parameters. Alkalinity is not pH, but a measure of the water's ability to resist changes in pH. Carbonate alkalinity is consumed by corals and coralline algae to form their tests or skeletons, whichever word works. dKH is a unit for measuring alkalinity.

So for coralline algae growth, you'll want to measure and supplement calcium and alkalinity.

IME, the best way to grow coralline algae is to hate it. It will then coat the sides of your tank in hours.

colettem · 04/26/2006, 01:24 AM

"alkalinity" really is a misnomer. At school and university I learnt that the term refers to the pH of a solution - it is the opposite to "acidity". In the aquarium hobby it has a totally different meaning and really would be better termed "buffering capacity". It refers to molecules such as carbonates/bicarbonates in the water that mop up acid and thus stabilise pH.

davefeag · 04/26/2006, 05:18 AM

Thank you for the correction.

sltwtrlvr · 04/26/2006, 06:59 AM

Thanks. I tested Calcium and Carbonate. Calcium is at 450 and Carbonate is at 160. I used the Hagen Test Kit. I don't know why I don't really get much of coralline. :-(((((

WaterKeeper · 04/26/2006, 11:22 AM

Are your rock completely bare? Many people assume that coralline is always shades of pink and purple whereas it can be yellow, green, red and all shades in-between. You calcium and alk seems sufficient to support coralline growth. Magnesium is also important to support coralline but it is a rare tank indeed that has amounts of Mg that are too low to supply its needs. Such tanks typically have low Ca values too as Mg is important in calcium solubility. The unusual first place coralline grows off the rock structure is on the silicone seams of the tank. That usually starts happening within a week or two after the first LR is added. Something appears amiss here but I'm at a loss to know what.

Alaskan Reefer · 04/26/2006, 11:34 AM

You can have mine, 13 weeks in and it's already taken over...

Here are the things, IME, that effect coraline growth, in order of decreasing importance.

1. Lack of nutrients -- any detectable phosphate or nitrates above 5-10ppm will inhibit growth.
2. Water chemistry -- strong CA and ALK are a must, and at 450/160 you have both already. Coraline "uses" both very rapidly once it takes off.
3. Spreading mechanism -- the key in my tank is the black longspine urchin. He eats the stuff, but in doing so sends spores everywhere and it just comes back stronger and stronger. You can hit it with a stiff toothbrush, grind two coraline covered rocks together, whatever -- chipping it off one way or another makes a big difference.
3. Flow -- more is better, mine always seems to grow first and strongest right at points where powerhead streams meet the glass.
4. Lighting -- intensity and spectrum effects growth rate and color respectively. Lower lighting works better.

Hope this helps, but be careful what you wish for -- once you learn to hate it you won't be able to stop it.

jefathome · 04/26/2006, 11:44 AM

Similar to what Alaskan Reefer said, someone in another thread mentioned taking a small rock with Coraline on it, chipping off some of the coraline and using something like a mortar and Pestal to grind it up into dust (or paste since there is water involved). Then jsut throw it back into the tank and it should settle everywhere and start growing.

btw Alaskan Reefer, I see your "occupation". Is that from Dale Vermillion? "we are money giver-away'rs"

WaterKeeper · 04/26/2006, 11:55 AM

Henny Youngman's tank, shown above

, is what most tanks look like in fairly short order. Good tips Alaska

In some cases coralline can be somewhat of a pain in the hind quarters.

ckoral · 04/26/2006, 11:56 AM

ever consider "purple up" which is basically calcium and stontium. I use it and have purple spotting everywhere on my tank. I am only about 3 months along and it is really starting to develop.

WaterKeeper · 04/26/2006, 11:58 AM

For the most part additives are not needed and a waste of money. You also end up adding things for which you didn't test and that can cause more problems than it solves. My old adage is, "Don't add what you don't test for!"

ckoral · 04/26/2006, 12:16 PM

purple up is harmless. You can test using a calcium test kit. I use it because I don't have a calcium reactor and have not started adding two part. I can tell you what I have observed. It boosted me just enough to see a difference. I have had friends drop by and comment on it.

With that said, WaterKeeper is right on. additives are trouble. Trace elements and additives are in the salt mix already.

Alaskan Reefer · 04/26/2006, 12:55 PM

Purple Up is most likely harmless, but potentially useless. The problem I have with it is the claim that the aragonite in it dissolves and thus naturally puts calcium back into the water -- however aragonite doesn't dissolve except at VERY low pH that would kill everything in the tank. Misleading at the very least.

You can get the same effect from cheaper alternatives like kalkwasser or two part additive -- I use kalk for my topoff water, and two part to keep CA and ALK balanced, which is difficult during a coraline explosion, especially ALK.

Bottom line is that Purple Up might be the product that gets your CA and ALK in line, or it might not. If it works for you, keep doing it, just like anything reef.

ckoral · 04/26/2006, 01:28 PM

It works for me, but I will eventually start to use Kalk in my topoff water.

2 years and no coraline.... How much water flow through the tank? Water changes - how often? How many gallons?

Do you have a refugium with lights on it and if so do you have any coraline growth in the fuge?

sltwtrlvr · 04/26/2006, 01:53 PM

Wow! Sounds like I'm so lucky not to have too much of coraline... :-)

I have three powerheads.... and I just added live rocks to the sump with light and macroalgea last month since I need to keep phosphate down. Mine is at .50 and as for Nitrate, it's at 15.

Other than that, corals, fish, and clam are doing excellent. I still only have very few coraline on live rocks and very very little on the back of the glass.

I added kalkwasser dripper then every Sundays, I added strogium, magnesium, and iodine.

Isn't that so weird?

04/25/2006, 03:29 PM	#1
sltwtrlvr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 84	what's the secret for coraline I'm wondering how can I spread my coraline? All of my tests came out very good. Clam is doing excellent. I have had this tank for almost two years. There's very very few of coraline. I have 150W 14K lights. What is the secret to it??? Thanks Michelle

04/25/2006, 04:05 PM	#3
rustybucket145 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: valdosta, ga Posts: 3,707	calcium and alkalinity are the most important things with coraline your calcium should be in the 400-475 range __________________ 400gals of various tanks in the same system. Current Tank Info: 2 175w MH, 2 VH0 Actinics, Lots of Live Rock, tons of copepods, a Fat Mandarin Goby, Niger Trigger, Yellow Tang, Falco Hawkfish, Bi-Color Pseudo, numerous soft, SPS and LPS Corals

04/25/2006, 06:17 PM	#5
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	Hi Michelle, It seems rather strange for a two year old tank not to have much coralline. Usually most people somewhat curse it as it needs to be scraped off the glass and such. Have you had those lights for two years? If so, it may be time to re-bulb. Fading lights put out poor spectral characteristics. If you have more than one try a 14 and a lower K to balance things. With a KW drip you should have sufficient alk but here is more information on Alkalinity. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

04/25/2006, 06:21 PM	#7
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	Let me ponder this as it is a true mystery. Get back to you on tomorrow. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

04/26/2006, 12:15 AM	#12
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php That article is a good place to start on water parameters. Alkalinity is not pH, but a measure of the water's ability to resist changes in pH. Carbonate alkalinity is consumed by corals and coralline algae to form their tests or skeletons, whichever word works. dKH is a unit for measuring alkalinity. So for coralline algae growth, you'll want to measure and supplement calcium and alkalinity. IME, the best way to grow coralline algae is to hate it. It will then coat the sides of your tank in hours. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

04/25/2006, 03:48 PM	#2
kau_cinta_ku Moved On Join Date: May 2005 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 8,669	i have read the blue lights also help promote the growth. what is you calium and alk. reading?

04/25/2006, 06:01 PM	#4
sltwtrlvr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 84	What is alkalinity? What is the supplement for it? My calcium is at between 450 and 500 with kalwasser dripper. thanks. michelle

04/25/2006, 06:19 PM	#6
sltwtrlvr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 84	i just purchased the bulbs last month. I used the other bulb at 150 W 10K but I replaced them about every six months.

04/25/2006, 08:57 PM	#8
davefeag Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Grain Valley, MO Posts: 43	I believe alkalinity refers to PH. -dave

04/25/2006, 08:59 PM	#9
davefeag Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Grain Valley, MO Posts: 43	I asked around and several people said when they desire more coraline they increase the ph gradually. -dave

04/25/2006, 09:17 PM	#10
diemaker Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: socal Posts: 95	alkalinity relates to kh do a search an you will find lots of good stuff

04/25/2006, 10:06 PM	#11
sltwtrlvr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 84	what's the best timing for each light, regular light and blue light to get a good coralline? thanks michelle

04/26/2006, 01:24 AM	#13
colettem Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: UK Posts: 191	"alkalinity" really is a misnomer. At school and university I learnt that the term refers to the pH of a solution - it is the opposite to "acidity". In the aquarium hobby it has a totally different meaning and really would be better termed "buffering capacity". It refers to molecules such as carbonates/bicarbonates in the water that mop up acid and thus stabilise pH.

04/26/2006, 05:18 AM	#14
davefeag Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Grain Valley, MO Posts: 43	Thank you for the correction.

04/26/2006, 06:59 AM	#15
sltwtrlvr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 84	Thanks. I tested Calcium and Carbonate. Calcium is at 450 and Carbonate is at 160. I used the Hagen Test Kit. I don't know why I don't really get much of coralline. :-(((((

04/26/2006, 11:22 AM	#16
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	Are your rock completely bare? Many people assume that coralline is always shades of pink and purple whereas it can be yellow, green, red and all shades in-between. You calcium and alk seems sufficient to support coralline growth. Magnesium is also important to support coralline but it is a rare tank indeed that has amounts of Mg that are too low to supply its needs. Such tanks typically have low Ca values too as Mg is important in calcium solubility. The unusual first place coralline grows off the rock structure is on the silicone seams of the tank. That usually starts happening within a week or two after the first LR is added. Something appears amiss here but I'm at a loss to know what. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

04/26/2006, 11:34 AM	#17
Alaskan Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 2,360	You can have mine, 13 weeks in and it's already taken over... Here are the things, IME, that effect coraline growth, in order of decreasing importance. 1. Lack of nutrients -- any detectable phosphate or nitrates above 5-10ppm will inhibit growth. 2. Water chemistry -- strong CA and ALK are a must, and at 450/160 you have both already. Coraline "uses" both very rapidly once it takes off. 3. Spreading mechanism -- the key in my tank is the black longspine urchin. He eats the stuff, but in doing so sends spores everywhere and it just comes back stronger and stronger. You can hit it with a stiff toothbrush, grind two coraline covered rocks together, whatever -- chipping it off one way or another makes a big difference. 3. Flow -- more is better, mine always seems to grow first and strongest right at points where powerhead streams meet the glass. 4. Lighting -- intensity and spectrum effects growth rate and color respectively. Lower lighting works better. Hope this helps, but be careful what you wish for -- once you learn to hate it you won't be able to stop it. __________________ Unattended children will be given double shot espresso and a free puppy. Current Tank Info: 125g FOWLR -- Conversion Back To SPS In Progress

04/26/2006, 11:44 AM	#18
jefathome Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Mission Viejo, CA Posts: 2,915	Similar to what Alaskan Reefer said, someone in another thread mentioned taking a small rock with Coraline on it, chipping off some of the coraline and using something like a mortar and Pestal to grind it up into dust (or paste since there is water involved). Then jsut throw it back into the tank and it should settle everywhere and start growing. btw Alaskan Reefer, I see your "occupation". Is that from Dale Vermillion? "we are money giver-away'rs" __________________ Without Geometry, life is pointless Current Tank Info: NEW 150g in-wall Solartube display; 60g 4x2ft frag tank; 3g work Pico.... all Reef tanks

04/26/2006, 11:55 AM	#19
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	Henny Youngman's tank, shown above , is what most tanks look like in fairly short order. Good tips Alaska In some cases coralline can be somewhat of a pain in the hind quarters. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

04/26/2006, 11:56 AM	#20
ckoral Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 486	ever consider "purple up" which is basically calcium and stontium. I use it and have purple spotting everywhere on my tank. I am only about 3 months along and it is really starting to develop.

04/26/2006, 11:58 AM	#21
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	For the most part additives are not needed and a waste of money. You also end up adding things for which you didn't test and that can cause more problems than it solves. My old adage is, "Don't add what you don't test for!" __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

04/26/2006, 12:16 PM	#22
ckoral Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 486	purple up is harmless. You can test using a calcium test kit. I use it because I don't have a calcium reactor and have not started adding two part. I can tell you what I have observed. It boosted me just enough to see a difference. I have had friends drop by and comment on it. With that said, WaterKeeper is right on. additives are trouble. Trace elements and additives are in the salt mix already.

04/26/2006, 12:55 PM	#23
Alaskan Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 2,360	Purple Up is most likely harmless, but potentially useless. The problem I have with it is the claim that the aragonite in it dissolves and thus naturally puts calcium back into the water -- however aragonite doesn't dissolve except at VERY low pH that would kill everything in the tank. Misleading at the very least. You can get the same effect from cheaper alternatives like kalkwasser or two part additive -- I use kalk for my topoff water, and two part to keep CA and ALK balanced, which is difficult during a coraline explosion, especially ALK. Bottom line is that Purple Up might be the product that gets your CA and ALK in line, or it might not. If it works for you, keep doing it, just like anything reef. __________________ Unattended children will be given double shot espresso and a free puppy. Current Tank Info: 125g FOWLR -- Conversion Back To SPS In Progress

04/26/2006, 01:28 PM	#24
ckoral Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 486	It works for me, but I will eventually start to use Kalk in my topoff water. 2 years and no coraline.... How much water flow through the tank? Water changes - how often? How many gallons? Do you have a refugium with lights on it and if so do you have any coraline growth in the fuge?

04/26/2006, 01:53 PM	#25
sltwtrlvr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 84	Wow! Sounds like I'm so lucky not to have too much of coraline... :-) I have three powerheads.... and I just added live rocks to the sump with light and macroalgea last month since I need to keep phosphate down. Mine is at .50 and as for Nitrate, it's at 15. Other than that, corals, fish, and clam are doing excellent. I still only have very few coraline on live rocks and very very little on the back of the glass. I added kalkwasser dripper then every Sundays, I added strogium, magnesium, and iodine. Isn't that so weird?