modest pressure-rated pump + Penductor = rediculous flow

Ewan · 04/27/2006, 09:17 PM

I'm impressed to say the least.

I recently added a Panworld 50PX pump to my closed loop. It's a pressure-rated pump equivalent to an Iwaki 30RLT. I finally got around to adding a penductor to the output, and what a huge surprise! I was under the impression that there would be a slight difference... But I never expected the amazing amount of flow! It moved some small rocks that were about 18" away!

I'm still shocked. I never thought you could have too much flow, but the sight of my 2 little fish pinned against the far glass of the aquarium has me thinking otherwise.

In my current 29gal I have a Panworld 40PX return, a Panworld 50PX closed loop pump, and a Sieo M820. I'm no stranger to strong current in a reef, but that penductor was too much! I'm going to have to get creative just to use it.

E.

ulua56 · 04/27/2006, 09:55 PM

Penductors rule !!!!! I am running 2 on a Wahoo......I have vortex's, eddy's and tsunami's......next I will be teaching my Tang to Surf !!!!

Mike.B · 04/27/2006, 10:44 PM

umm, whats a penductor?

Rhinecanthus · 04/28/2006, 12:03 AM

A penductor or eductor is a specially shaped piece of plastic or vinyl that goes on the outlet of a pump. The shape causes a strong negative pressure/suction and actually draws more water through the pump thereby increasing the gallon per hour output of the pump. This works on what is called the Venturi Effect...basically speeding up the flow by forcing the water through a small cone shaped outlet.

Mike.B · 04/28/2006, 02:54 AM

Is this one?

dkh0331 · 04/28/2006, 03:42 AM

Well that is actually two of them.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

ufans · 04/28/2006, 08:15 AM

Has anyone experienced cavitation using a penductor because the water is moving too fast and breaking up.. like in a venturi?

Weatherman · 04/28/2006, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by subzero420
Is this one?

Now, whose tank would that be? Hmmmmm?

Those are, actually, eductors. Penductors are shorter (and a little less efficient).

Here's an updated pic:

As for cavitation... You can get what's called "flow separation" if the diffuser cone is too broad. This inhibits the mixing of the water in the eductor and results in a strong narrow jet rather than a broad gentle stream out of the eductor cone.

Ewan · 04/28/2006, 09:46 AM

Weatherman, your tank is one of my favorites. I really like the clean setup.

-E.

Mike.B · 04/29/2006, 03:11 PM

haha I had no idea that was your tank!

I had another pic of your tank but it had the tunze in the middle and didnt look as nice. Youve got good growth and it looks like an established tank now.

I think I get the concept behind the penductor, but I think ill keep the loc-line on my return and let the vortech give me flow.

xdusty6920 · 04/29/2006, 04:09 PM

i thought penductors and eductors were the same and penductor was just a name brand.

elephen · 04/29/2006, 04:13 PM

Are you sure the 50PX is pressure rated? I was under the impression that only the PS pumps were pressure rated.

Weatherman · 04/29/2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by subzero420
I had another pic of your tank but it had the tunze in the middle and didnt look as nice. Youve got good growth and it looks like an established tank now.

I've had some challenges with the tank over the past year, but it's 15 months old now and doing pretty well.

Quote:

Originally posted by xdusty6920
i thought penductors and eductors were the same and penductor was just a name brand.

I think "penductor" is a brand name from the manufacturer Penguin Pumps, Inc. "Eductor" is a generic term for the device. "Penductors" are, basically, short "eductors".

Quote:

Originally posted by elephen
Are you sure the 50PX is pressure rated? I was under the impression that only the PS pumps were pressure rated.

A 50PX pump should work fine for driving an eductor (or penductor). Since it's on a closed loop, you won't have any static head to contend with. If you can find a performance curve for the pump, you might want to compare the flow at around 2' head to the flow at around 12' head. If the flow at 12' is at least 25% the flow at 2', adding a penductor is a good choice.

elephen · 04/29/2006, 06:19 PM

Here is the performance curve for the PS series, couldn't find anything about the PX on Pan World's site.

elephen · 04/29/2006, 06:20 PM

I run a Pan World 150-PS on a closed loop powering 2 3/4" penductors (the smaller ones) and love the flow although I'm getting ready to add 2 x 6100's on a multicontroller and run my Dart on the other closed loop through a new WavySea unit to also help with more random flow instead of static flow.

Weatherman · 04/29/2006, 06:33 PM

Adding two 6100s on a multicontroller makes a world of difference (you can just barely see one of the two on the far left side of the updated picture - the other is attached to the glass on the opposite side of the tank).

The pure random turbulence of the pair of eductors (even though they are driven by an Iwaki 55RLT) just doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t do a very good job keeping detritus in suspension.

Ewan · 04/30/2006, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elephen
Are you sure the 50PX is pressure rated? I was under the impression that only the PS pumps were pressure rated.

The model number on the tag of the pump is NH-50PX

There is likely some changes in the numbering. I'm not positive, but the 50PX on premium aquatics site is the pressure-rated pump:

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch..._Code=Panworld

As opposed to the 50PX-X, which is circulation only, and moves almost twice the volume of water at 1110gph.

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch..._Code=Panworld

It certainly behaves differently with an eductor than my blueline 1100, which I believe to be similar to the circulation-rated 50px-x. I tried it out on the BL1100, and the difference was night and day.

-E.

RGibson · 04/30/2006, 09:20 AM

I have a Eheim 1260 pump for a return pump with two out lets,put two penductors that i had ,did think the penductors would do much with a pump like the 1260 but thay work much better than i though thay would,so if you want more flow and not want to spend much money give them a try cost for the two penductors $50.00 and no increase in the cost for ele power to run them.

jefathome · 05/03/2006, 09:29 AM

I see that the Penductor creates more flow in the tank, but I have two questions.

1) Does it reduce the flow through your pump? My pump is 580GPH and I need to keep a minimum of 480GPH for my CHiller.

2) Is the flow it creates more narrow than with the regular flare nozzle? I've always heard that narrow fast flow (Laminar?) will stress your fish.

turbonegro · 05/03/2006, 09:54 AM

Were is a good site to purchase a penductors/eductors?

jefathome · 05/03/2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by turbonegro
Were is a good site to purchase a penductors/eductors?

I found this:
http://www.kthsales.com/website/Misc...nthusiasts.htm

and this:
http://www.championlighting.com/prod...cat=639&page=1

dolt · 05/03/2006, 10:45 AM

has anyone figured out how to hook these darn things up to loc line so that they are aimable? I just got two and a new return pump (sequence marlin) and can't wait to try the combo out

Ewan · 05/03/2006, 12:02 PM

You'll need a penductor with a female thread, and a "double socket" piece.

I ordered both at custom aquatics.

So on my setup, I have a 3/4" threaded loc-line, a couple of pieces of 3/4" loc line, a double socket, and another 3/4" threaded loc line, screwed in to the penductor.

Middletonmark has a male eductor, I believe, and he uses a PVC 3/4" FIPTxFIPT plus the stuff mentioned above, IIRC.

-E.

jefathome · 05/03/2006, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ewan
You'll need a penductor with a female thread, and a "double socket" piece.

I ordered both at custom aquatics.

So on my setup, I have a 3/4" threaded loc-line, a couple of pieces of 3/4" loc line, a double socket, and another 3/4" threaded loc line, screwed in to the penductor.

Middletonmark has a male eductor, I believe, and he uses a PVC 3/4" FIPTxFIPT plus the stuff mentioned above, IIRC.

-E.

]

Not to pressure you or anything

but do you know the answers to my question above?

"1) Does it reduce the flow through your pump? My pump is 580GPH and I need to keep a minimum of 480GPH for my CHiller.

2) Is the flow it creates more (or less) narrow than with the regular flare nozzle? I've always heard that narrow fast flow (Laminar?) will stress your fish.

Ewan · 05/03/2006, 12:23 PM

I don't know how much it will reduce flow... sorry. Maybe the head loss calculator can help here. It does create more head pressure, but if you have a pressure rated pump, it should be up to the challenge

It's not comparable to the flare nozzle at all. In my system, it creates a very strong laminar flow. I aim it at the glass, toward the bottom of the tank. I used the flare nozzle myself (and I still do on my return outlet), and I always aimed them at the surface. You wouldn't want to do that with a penductor, or you'd have a wet ceiling.

I wouldn't use the words "gentle" or "dispersed" when describing the flow from the penductor in my system. I was surprised how narrow the cone of water was coming from the penductor.

-E.

04/27/2006, 09:17 PM	#1
Ewan Premium Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada Posts: 2,594	modest pressure-rated pump + Penductor = rediculous flow I'm impressed to say the least. I recently added a Panworld 50PX pump to my closed loop. It's a pressure-rated pump equivalent to an Iwaki 30RLT. I finally got around to adding a penductor to the output, and what a huge surprise! I was under the impression that there would be a slight difference... But I never expected the amazing amount of flow! It moved some small rocks that were about 18" away! I'm still shocked. I never thought you could have too much flow, but the sight of my 2 little fish pinned against the far glass of the aquarium has me thinking otherwise. In my current 29gal I have a Panworld 40PX return, a Panworld 50PX closed loop pump, and a Sieo M820. I'm no stranger to strong current in a reef, but that penductor was too much! I'm going to have to get creative just to use it. E.

04/27/2006, 09:55 PM	#2
ulua56 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Phoenix Posts: 339	Penductors rule !!!!! I am running 2 on a Wahoo......I have vortex's, eddy's and tsunami's......next I will be teaching my Tang to Surf !!!! __________________ 24 nano, AI Hydra 26 HD

04/28/2006, 03:42 AM	#6
dkh0331 Es gibt keinen ersatz Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Close to the edge, down by a river Posts: 3,581	Well that is actually two of them. Sorry, couldn't resist. __________________ Just found out that grandpa has a drug addiction. He is addicted to viagra. No one is taking it harder than grandma.

04/30/2006, 09:20 AM	#18
RGibson RGibson Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,377	Two Penductors I have a Eheim 1260 pump for a return pump with two out lets,put two penductors that i had ,did think the penductors would do much with a pump like the 1260 but thay work much better than i though thay would,so if you want more flow and not want to spend much money give them a try cost for the two penductors $50.00 and no increase in the cost for ele power to run them. __________________ RGibson

05/03/2006, 09:29 AM	#19
jefathome Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Mission Viejo, CA Posts: 2,915	I see that the Penductor creates more flow in the tank, but I have two questions. 1) Does it reduce the flow through your pump? My pump is 580GPH and I need to keep a minimum of 480GPH for my CHiller. 2) Is the flow it creates more narrow than with the regular flare nozzle? I've always heard that narrow fast flow (Laminar?) will stress your fish. Last edited by jefathome; 05/03/2006 at 10:07 AM.

04/27/2006, 10:44 PM	#3
Mike.B Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 548	umm, whats a penductor?

04/28/2006, 12:03 AM	#4
Rhinecanthus Moved On Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 647	A penductor or eductor is a specially shaped piece of plastic or vinyl that goes on the outlet of a pump. The shape causes a strong negative pressure/suction and actually draws more water through the pump thereby increasing the gallon per hour output of the pump. This works on what is called the Venturi Effect...basically speeding up the flow by forcing the water through a small cone shaped outlet.

04/28/2006, 02:54 AM	#5
Mike.B Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 548	Is this one?

04/28/2006, 08:15 AM	#7
ufans Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Fairfax Station, VA Posts: 681	Has anyone experienced cavitation using a penductor because the water is moving too fast and breaking up.. like in a venturi?

04/28/2006, 09:46 AM	#9
Ewan Premium Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada Posts: 2,594	Weatherman, your tank is one of my favorites. I really like the clean setup. -E.

04/29/2006, 03:11 PM	#10
Mike.B Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 548	haha I had no idea that was your tank! I had another pic of your tank but it had the tunze in the middle and didnt look as nice. Youve got good growth and it looks like an established tank now. I think I get the concept behind the penductor, but I think ill keep the loc-line on my return and let the vortech give me flow.

04/29/2006, 04:09 PM	#11
xdusty6920 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 2,261	i thought penductors and eductors were the same and penductor was just a name brand.

04/29/2006, 04:13 PM	#12
elephen Moved On Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: kc Posts: 2,763	Are you sure the 50PX is pressure rated? I was under the impression that only the PS pumps were pressure rated.

04/29/2006, 06:19 PM	#14
elephen Moved On Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: kc Posts: 2,763	Here is the performance curve for the PS series, couldn't find anything about the PX on Pan World's site.

04/29/2006, 06:20 PM	#15
elephen Moved On Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: kc Posts: 2,763	I run a Pan World 150-PS on a closed loop powering 2 3/4" penductors (the smaller ones) and love the flow although I'm getting ready to add 2 x 6100's on a multicontroller and run my Dart on the other closed loop through a new WavySea unit to also help with more random flow instead of static flow.

04/29/2006, 06:33 PM	#16
Weatherman Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Posts: 1,619	Adding two 6100s on a multicontroller makes a world of difference (you can just barely see one of the two on the far left side of the updated picture - the other is attached to the glass on the opposite side of the tank). The pure random turbulence of the pair of eductors (even though they are driven by an Iwaki 55RLT) just doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t do a very good job keeping detritus in suspension.

05/03/2006, 09:54 AM	#20
turbonegro Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: york, PA Posts: 391	Were is a good site to purchase a penductors/eductors?

05/03/2006, 10:45 AM	#22
dolt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: michigan Posts: 397	has anyone figured out how to hook these darn things up to loc line so that they are aimable? I just got two and a new return pump (sequence marlin) and can't wait to try the combo out

05/03/2006, 12:02 PM	#23
Ewan Premium Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada Posts: 2,594	You'll need a penductor with a female thread, and a "double socket" piece. I ordered both at custom aquatics. So on my setup, I have a 3/4" threaded loc-line, a couple of pieces of 3/4" loc line, a double socket, and another 3/4" threaded loc line, screwed in to the penductor. Middletonmark has a male eductor, I believe, and he uses a PVC 3/4" FIPTxFIPT plus the stuff mentioned above, IIRC. -E.

05/03/2006, 12:23 PM	#25
Ewan Premium Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada Posts: 2,594	I don't know how much it will reduce flow... sorry. Maybe the head loss calculator can help here. It does create more head pressure, but if you have a pressure rated pump, it should be up to the challenge It's not comparable to the flare nozzle at all. In my system, it creates a very strong laminar flow. I aim it at the glass, toward the bottom of the tank. I used the flare nozzle myself (and I still do on my return outlet), and I always aimed them at the surface. You wouldn't want to do that with a penductor, or you'd have a wet ceiling. I wouldn't use the words "gentle" or "dispersed" when describing the flow from the penductor in my system. I was surprised how narrow the cone of water was coming from the penductor. -E.