A Simple Question

[Travis L. Stevens]

I was pondering this last night as I was falling asleep. Are the various different bacteria invovled in cycling organics Eubacteria or Archaebacteria?

[Toddrtrex]

Good lord Travis, no wonder they are coming up with new late hour rules at your place

All I know is that the "archea" means ancient, and that they can live in
very extreme conditions.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Originally posted by Toddrtrex
Good lord Travis, no wonder they are coming up with new late hour rules at your place

All I know is that the "archea" means ancient, and that they can live in
very extreme conditions.

Har Har Har....

Well, I was reading through my old Zoology text book from High School (Yes, I still have my book. They were giving them away at the end of the year). They mentioned that archaebacteria lives in extreme condtions including hot, cold, and anoxic environments. So, does that mean that the denitrifying bacteria are Archaebacteria? What about the ones that break ammonia and nitrites down? Are they Eubacteria because they don't live in an extreme condition? Heck, what constitutes an extreme condition? Would the tube worms, shrimp, and crabs that live by the deep sea vents be "Archae-Animals"?

[AZDesertRat]

Nitrosomonas and nitrobacter as I understand it.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Originally posted by AZDesertRat
Nitrosomonas and nitrobacter as I understand it.

Ya, but what kindom are they in?

[Amphiprion]

Eubacteria. Archaea are very different and are not present in appreciable quantities in our aquaria. They thrive best in environments most Eubacteria find inhospitable. BTW, they are actually domains, not kingdoms. Organisms as we know them are divided:
Eubacteria
Archaea
Eukaryota

[Travis L. Stevens]

So the denitrifying bacteria that we find deep within our own live rock and deep sand beds are Eubacteria even though they live in an environment that is nearly or completely devoid of oxygen?

[Amphiprion]

yes. Their are plenty of anaerobic bacteria. ONe of my favorites is Clostridium botulinum--only lives in anaerobic environments.

[Amphiprion]

The Archaea primarily live in extremes of pressure (osmotic pressure, that is), temperature, and pH.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not that I know the answer, but was your question referring to the nitrogen cycle (ammonia to nitrite to nitrate), or organic cycling (organics to CO2 plus other inorganic)?

[Travis L. Stevens]

Interesting. Thanks Amphiprion. I guess those anaerobic areas aren't extreme enough.

[Amphiprion]

Not really just that. I am sure that there probably are some Archaea that live in our systems--I wouldn't doubt it. But Eubacteria are so much more prevalent in our circumstances, it is reasonable to assume that the majority of bacterial action in our systems is most likely done by some sort of true bacteria.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
Not that I know the answer, but was your question referring to the nitrogen cycle (ammonia to nitrite to nitrate), or organic cycling (organics to CO2 plus other inorganic)?

Mainly the nitrogen cycle. For example, organic matter will break down to ammonia and nitrite through various bacteria that need oxygen to live, but nitrate breaks down by bacteria in oxygen devoid areas. In "Concepts of Zoology", it had listed an example of an extreme environment as "anoxic". That's made me wonder if our bacteria in our aquariums were either Archaebacteria or Eubacteria.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ah, OK. I initially thought the question revolved around organic breakdown, which is performed by nearly all bacteria.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
Ah, OK. I initially thought the question revolved around organic breakdown, which is performed by nearly all bacteria.

Well...sort of, it is. But the real question is about classification

[Amphiprion]

Right. I think the main thing in our aquaria is the issue of competitive exclusion. Archaea are present in larger numbers in environments most Eubacteria would not thrive in. I am sure there may be some species, but I would not expect them in any great quantity (could be wrong, so who knows). However, there are many instances where both seem to do well. Organic laden swamps are such an instance. There are Archaea and Eubacteria present there and the results from their breakdown action are obvious (but Archaea are noted moreso in their production of "swamp gas").

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Organic laden swamps are such an instance.

I'll bet we can find some tanks posted on RC that might fit that description.

[delor]

Originally posted by Amphiprion
yes. Their are plenty of anaerobic bacteria. ONe of my favorites is Clostridium botulinum--only lives in anaerobic environments.

Killing C.bot and its spores is how I make my living....

[Travis L. Stevens]

Originally posted by spe934
Killing C.bot and its spores is how I make my living....

A little off topic, but how do you do that? And how do you make money from it?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

yes. Their are plenty of anaerobic bacteria. ONe of my favorites is Clostridium botulinum--only lives in anaerobic environments.


Killing C.bot and its spores is how I make my living....

We are trying to make money by not killing Clostridium difficile, as our competitors do, but by binding its toxins.

http://www.genzyme.com/corp/media/GENZ%20PR-071405.asp

from it:

"Genzyme is conducting a Phase 3 clinical trial of tolevamer, a novel non-absorbed polymer therapy that could be the first non-antibiotic treatment for Clostridium difficile-associated diarrhea (CDAD). The trial will enroll approximately 1,000 patients in more than 250 clinical centers in Europe, North America and Australia. CDAD is a widespread problem among hospitalized patients, with more than 400,000 cases annually in the United States alone, resulting in prolonged hospitalization and approximately 5,000 deaths. Tolevamer has received fast track designation from the FDA. Enrollment in the trial has been briefly interrupted while a substitute source of Metronidazole, a comparator product, is replaced in trial kits. A substitute source was required because the original manufacturer voluntarily recalled all of its drug products. The interruption is not expected to affect the trial's timelines."

[delor]

Originally posted by Travis L. Stevens
A little off topic, but how do you do that? And how do you make money from it?

I am a thermal process engineer. My company is one of the 3 manufactures of MRE's for the US military. We also co-pack with many of the largest food companies in the US. We don't do any canning (although the principles are the same), we specialize in pouches and plastic bowls. I get paid to ensure that no one gets sick from C.bot while eating out products, including our men in uniform (and ladies too). I do routine testing on our equipment to ensure that they are all processing the food correctly and on the individual products themselves to verify that they recieve the correct process time. We don't really care about the toxins (sorry Randy), we are more interested in viable spores.

Who said that biology was boring and useless?...