About to give up part II...

[dstalfire]

Well I am even more confused now. I went and did my water test, and here is the results:

Nitrates - 10 ppm
Nitrites - 0
PH - 8.1 - 8.2
Salinity - 1.025
Amonia - 0
Calcium - 320
Alkalinity - 140 ppm
TDS - ? No one had a test for this.

So in other words, my water is near perfect, yet I have hair algae every where and I have snails dieing off. I do beleive I may have a mantis or pistol shrimp in there somewhere, due to the fact that I hear clicking every once in a while.

What do I do? Do I go buy a hundred hermit crabs, some large mexican turbos, scrub all the rock and hope it is gone?

I was also told there are two types of phosphates? 1 in the water and another that forms on the rock and sand that the algae will eat, and water changes will not remove? Is this true?

Thanks for any input.

Dan

[theop]

Your water is not near perfect - your nitrates are high for a reef tank. Perfect would be nitrates = 0 and "good enough" would be < 5 ppm.

This is likely fueling your algae growth, as well as possbily high phosphates.

There are phosphate test kits, but it is true that they cannot measure all of the phosphates in your tank. There are 2 types of phosphates - organic and inorganic. The test kits only measure one of the types, but I can't remember which type.

Here is some reading on phosphates: http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/pho...a/aa060398.htm
http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/reefref/phos.html

There are several means for reducing phosphates including filters and media, but the best thing to due is to determine why they are high and fix that problem.

I will go out on a limb here and predict that phosphates are part of your algae problem. Either you are using tap water or you are overfeeding. Given that you have nitrates = 10, you are probably overfeeding.

[dstalfire]

I use ro di water and feed only a half cube of marine cusine per day. I did have a massive die off of about 100 snails though, not sure why but they are gone.

[crumbletop]

TDS stands for Total Disolved Solids and is a proxy for measuring the crud in source water before and after filtration. You use a TDS meter to check the water from your tap, the water after reverse osmosis filtration (RO) and then again after deionization (DI) for those who have RO/DI setups. TDS doesn't tell you what is in the water, just that something is and a proxy measure for how much is there. If you are using water with a high TDS for your aquarium then you may be unwittingly introducing things to your tank that fuel the algae. I agree with theop that you are likely also fueling the algae with excess food.

Jack

[Fusch13]

I would think the high nitrate is possibly being caused by the die off of 100 snails....ouch. As to what is causing the hair algea, could be phosphate, nitrates or another question for you is how old are your bulbs? I know my tank right now is having a small hair algae problem due to less par on halides, so i ordered two new. It was time to replace anyhow, but the algae was a tale tell sign, being all my other levels are good!

[oct2274]

i'm guessing is nitrates are only at 10 because the algae is keeping it that low....

[delor]

The reason you don't have a phosphate reading is that the HA is using it up. FYI, the liquid part of those frozen cubes are full of phosphates. After thawing it out in some tank water, strain it to just get the chunks you want to feed the fish, toss the "juice"...

I had a similar problem, HA took over my tanks and even choked out a few corasl. I ended up getting a HOB refugium and adding a light over it and a big ball of cheato. HA was gone within a few weeks..

[crumbletop]

I thought the reason he didn't have a phosphate reading was because he didn't measure it...

[dstalfire]

I measure it and it was 0 I also have a 20 gallon refugium full of chateo.

[theop]

Something strange is going on in your tank. Having 100 snails die off and having nitrates that high with a large chaeto refugium is not normal. I think your algae problems are secondary to your water parameter problems, but I don't know what is causing those.

You seem to be doing everything right: good water, macroalgae, not overfeeding, etc.

I think it would be helpful to list all your tank details. A few questions:

1. How big is your tank? What is the substrate?
2. What is your bioload (i.e. fish population)?
3. Do you have a skimmer? If not, this would be the next think I would add.
4. Do you any other filters such as cannister filters, sponges, noodles, or bio-balls which may be causing a problem with nitrates?
5. What is your water change regimen?

[Jocko]

I didn't see the part I thread, but my first thought is: How long has your tank been running with livestock in it?

[dstalfire]

I do not want to give up, but I cant beat hair algae. Let me give you some background first.

Here is my tank:

75 gallon reef with 2 inch sand bed
protein skimmer in sump
fluvial 304 canister with no media in it to lower nitrates
1 power head and 2 out flows from fluvial and sump
20 gallon refugium, loaded full of Chato, with 3 inch sand bed
530 watts of light. 2 10k halides 2 power compacts
100lbs of live rock

I do weekly water changes 5% per week with RO water form the lfs.
5 fish, 1 is a yellow tang
2 emerald crabs, 2 conchs put 175 nasuirus snails, 100 turbos "astrrea" spelling

Tried:

every type of snail except mexican turbos
2 sea hairs - they disapear
lawn mower blenneys - they disapear
removed rock and scrubed it
phosate remover
conchs
hundreds of snails
Fox face

I did a complete cleaning and removed all the rock cleaned it, loaded the tank with turbos, and use the liquid phosophate remover. The tank looked great for about a week. Now all the algae is back. It looks like a carpet of algae all over the rock and some on the glass.

Most of the snails are gone, and pretty much all the turbos are missing. I put a cleaner shrimp in there and he is gone.

My water keeps testing good, my temp is 79 degrees, and I only use RO water from Plano Pets.

I seriously am about to give up. I do not know what the hell is going on with my tank. I can't beat this dam problem. I have been messing with it for 6 months.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Dan " soon to be ex reefer"

[tsproul]

I would try a different source for RO/DI water.....

It seems reasonable to think that you are continually adding the hair algae since you cannot get rid of it via normal methods.

Tim

[dstalfire]

what do you all think of running my own ro di unit?

[techreef]

i'm biased 'cause i have one, (Typhoon III from AirWaterIce) but when i was trying to make the decision, the economics of it made sense to me. I've got a 115G system, so in the long run, it's cheaper for me to make my own pure water than to buy it and have to truck it home. (which is a pain all it's own) all the algae problem stories on RC convinced me that I was only doing a reef tank w/ RO/DI water, not tap water. Jersey tap water is a step above sludge where i live.

Installing an RO/DI unit is really easy, and the guys at AirWaterIce offer great tech support, if you want it.

[theop]

Good point about making your own water.

There was a post some time back of a guy who basically caught his LFS selling their old water (removed for water changes) as fresh RO/DI saltwater. He bought some water from them and it tested with high nitrates and even ammonia, I think.

I am not suggesting that your LFS is doing that, but anything is possible. Who knows, maybe their RO membrane is worn out. Even if this is not the problem, it is cheaper in the long run and definately more convienent to filter your own water. And it makes good drinking water!

[dstalfire]

I tested the lfs water at another lfs and it was good. I think I might just get the ro di unit. The water here is .85 per gallon at the lfs for salt and .35 gallon for fresh.

[mikeatjac]

I would get a TDS meter. NEVER trust the LFS to say they have good water. I found two LFSs that had a TDS over 150 and 2 that did not even RO units.

If you have good clean water going in, keep an eye on want you are doing with food and export with water changes and alge your problem has to go away.

A TDS meter cost $25.00.

[techreef]

how did you test the LFS water? did you use a TDS meter or did you use your various test kits for nitrate, phosphates, etc.?

I'm not plugging the Typhoon III, but AWI throws in a handheld TDS meter for free with your order.

[dstalfire]

The unit looks great, the web site is probably the worst I have ever seen.