true newbie - how what when why?

matt7 · 07/10/2006, 01:07 PM

hi i'm starting new marine, have many many questions but will only ask a few at a time!

i have 47*24*18 display

sump - undecided - i have room for (max) 40*24*18

i want fish and corals and inverts and whatever else you can have!!

how much miracle/magic mud do i need for this size tank?

do i need a skimmer when using miracle/magic mud?
i'm more than prepared to buy one but after reading some forums- do i need one?

Holmie_D_Klown · 07/10/2006, 01:13 PM

Miracle Mud? That's not really something you need right now starting out, unless you want a refugium - but that's a whole other can of worms. I would highly recommend both a sump and a Euro Reef protein skimmer. Best not to get a skimmer if you are going to get a crappy one.

matt7 · 07/10/2006, 01:16 PM

but what do i put in sump if not miracle mud???

mbbuna · 07/10/2006, 01:23 PM

To Reef Central

what benefits do you hope to get from the miracle mud?

what type corals do you want?

what lighting are you going to have?

akrimmel · 07/10/2006, 01:23 PM

LS and LR

akrimmel · 07/10/2006, 01:24 PM

correction, rubble rock.

matt7 · 07/10/2006, 01:28 PM

don't know never heard of it till i came on here
don't know what ever i like the look of!!
don't know t5s is that right?i have 10 inch space above tank
i have NO idea what akrimmel is saying

ttomkat1 · 07/10/2006, 01:35 PM

Howdy matt7, welcome to RC.

It's ok to feel a bit overwhelmed, I do all the time.

A sump is basically used to increase water capacity and allow a place for you to keep equipment such as skimmer, heater, ca reactor etc.

A refugium is often built into a sump or ran with it. This is a refuge for all the tiny little critters such as copepods and the like. They can populate here without predators.

Most people run a type of live sand in the refugium, basically the same stuff you might put in your display tank.

As far as a skimmer, I agree with Holmie_D_Klown, a vital piece of equipment for a reef tank

Keep reading & posting.

Good luck
---ttomkat1

akrimmel · 07/10/2006, 01:37 PM

live sand and live rock.

you dont know what they stand for, i didn't as well 5 years ago. does this help------MATT7

mbbuna · 07/10/2006, 01:38 PM

well the first thing you need to do is figure out what you want to keep, find out what these things needs are then set the tank up with the equipment needed to meet these needs.

back to the mud, some people like it, some dont. i think its overpriced sand/dirt

matt7 · 07/10/2006, 01:45 PM

i understand the whats, but not the whys - do i need a refugium?do i use miracle mud or the sand?
i understand it will take a least a year to be fully estabilished but i don't want to be adding tanks altering this and that (major stuff that is) i've just knocked a big black hole in chimney breast(no fire there now)had muck EVERYWHERE now everything neat painted clean and tidy with a big empty tank and big empty space underneath now i'm ready to go!!

matt7 · 07/10/2006, 01:47 PM

re mbbuna

couldn't i do a "over the top set up" ie over sized sump big skimmer etc and this would cover most things?

akrimmel · 07/10/2006, 01:49 PM

matt7 you seem a little testy, everything good over there in durham?

mbbuna · 07/10/2006, 01:51 PM

you could use the sump just to hold you skimmer, pump ect... or you could use part of it as a fuge and still put you equipment in there.

do you need a fuge? no

can a fuge help lower nitrates? yes

can a fuge help naturally feed your tank? yes

do you need to use mud? no

do you need to use sand? no

can you if you want to? yes

what is the best way to find out what you want to use? find out what you want to keep

matt7 · 07/10/2006, 01:59 PM

akrimmel everything is great just sick of reading conflicting things and ihave to travel nearly 20 miles to nearest marine shop which sells but doesn't really know about cos its too hard! lol
plus i've been looking at empty tank for over 2 weeks now

matt7 · 07/10/2006, 02:03 PM

mbbuna

the wife says a "few nemos and an anemone"
i just like the corals at the mo

akrimmel · 07/10/2006, 02:04 PM

took me 6months of planning and waiting for my current setup and just know have had water in it for close to three weeks, so i feel your pain. i tend not to deal with LFS's just local reefers and friends so much easier and cheaper.

akrimmel · 07/10/2006, 02:08 PM

i looked at a empty tank with a skimmer box,sterilizerbox, phosban box, and plumbing parts for 6 weeks. all i could do is visualize how the system was going to look, takes the fun out of it but in the same time makes it worth the wait when it id one correctly the first time as we all know. should know.

matt7 · 07/10/2006, 02:08 PM

lfs = local fish shops???
marine tanks/knowledge etc pretty low round here
why 6 months?

Stidd · 07/10/2006, 02:08 PM

Matt... Have patience. READ READ ASK ASK AND READ some more before you go buy equipment for your tank. Take your time... There is nothing fast in this hobby... Only trouble.

Buy right the first time. Plan ahead. and than read some more. Don't be afraid to ask questions.

There is a GREAT intro on the main page called "So you want to start a marine tank..." Check it out as it gives a great intro... Go to a respected Marine shop and ask the owner questions. Look at their equipment. Join a local reef club. Ask them questions. Look at pictures and try to grasp everything before you buy. Buy once rather than 3 times because you change your mind after you purchase.

You're off to a great start by asking questions with an empty tank!!!

Good Luck and Hope that Helps (HTH)

Stidd

mbbuna · 07/10/2006, 02:12 PM

you are going to need moderate to strong light for an anemone. very clean water(good skimmer) and a fuge might help with natural foods.

i would save the money from the mud for the skimmer, and if you want sand just put some in for the bugs to craw through

akrimmel · 07/10/2006, 02:12 PM

just what stidd said, even though i already had a tank set up so much has changed in the 1 1/2 years ago when i set it up. that is the reason as well as lots of planning and visualization of what you want to do and keep as well as loooking at so many setups over the months and coming up with one i knew i would not have to upgrade anything once it was ready to rock. been there and done that with previous tanks.

matt7 · 07/10/2006, 02:18 PM

mbbuna
hve seen 2@ 42" white lights
1@ 42" blue light to run on a timer 2 hours before and after white light.
is the mud that expensive? is the mud not special? - just somewhere for the bugs?

matt7 · 07/10/2006, 02:20 PM

akrimmel it was the other tank that kept you sane!!! i don't have that (yet) lol

akrimmel · 07/10/2006, 02:20 PM

kind of a waste in most reefer opinions, more prefer the live sand over the mus as you have to change out the mud a few times a year at most.

07/10/2006, 01:07 PM	#1
matt7 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: County Durham Posts: 60	true newbie - how what when why? hi i'm starting new marine, have many many questions but will only ask a few at a time! i have 472418 display sump - undecided - i have room for (max) 402418 i want fish and corals and inverts and whatever else you can have!! how much miracle/magic mud do i need for this size tank? do i need a skimmer when using miracle/magic mud? i'm more than prepared to buy one but after reading some forums- do i need one?

07/10/2006, 01:35 PM	#8
ttomkat1 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sunny So. Cal Posts: 227	Howdy matt7, welcome to RC. It's ok to feel a bit overwhelmed, I do all the time. A sump is basically used to increase water capacity and allow a place for you to keep equipment such as skimmer, heater, ca reactor etc. A refugium is often built into a sump or ran with it. This is a refuge for all the tiny little critters such as copepods and the like. They can populate here without predators. Most people run a type of live sand in the refugium, basically the same stuff you might put in your display tank. As far as a skimmer, I agree with Holmie_D_Klown, a vital piece of equipment for a reef tank Keep reading & posting. Good luck ---ttomkat1 __________________ "You can observe alot just by watching" -Yogi Berra Current Tank Info: 120AGA, 110lbs LR, 25g sump, 10g fuge. Keeping Zoas, Mixed SPS/LPS

07/10/2006, 02:08 PM	#20
Stidd Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 286	Matt... Have patience. READ READ ASK ASK AND READ some more before you go buy equipment for your tank. Take your time... There is nothing fast in this hobby... Only trouble. Buy right the first time. Plan ahead. and than read some more. Don't be afraid to ask questions. There is a GREAT intro on the main page called "So you want to start a marine tank..." Check it out as it gives a great intro... Go to a respected Marine shop and ask the owner questions. Look at their equipment. Join a local reef club. Ask them questions. Look at pictures and try to grasp everything before you buy. Buy once rather than 3 times because you change your mind after you purchase. You're off to a great start by asking questions with an empty tank!!! Good Luck and Hope that Helps (HTH) Stidd __________________ Be like a sponge when it comes to each new experience. If you want to be able to express it well, you must first be able to absorb it well. ~ Jim Rohn Current Tank Info: 30 Gallon All-Glass-Aquarium, Current USA Orbit 36" 2x96W with MoonLights. LifeReef Overflow into a Custom Compact Berlin Sump w/ VS2-24 Skimmer

07/10/2006, 01:13 PM	#2
Holmie_D_Klown Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Land O' Lakes, FL Posts: 247	Miracle Mud? That's not really something you need right now starting out, unless you want a refugium - but that's a whole other can of worms. I would highly recommend both a sump and a Euro Reef protein skimmer. Best not to get a skimmer if you are going to get a crappy one.

07/10/2006, 01:16 PM	#3
matt7 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: County Durham Posts: 60	but what do i put in sump if not miracle mud???

07/10/2006, 01:23 PM	#4
mbbuna Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 6,847	*To Reef Central* what benefits do you hope to get from the miracle mud? what type corals do you want? what lighting are you going to have?

07/10/2006, 01:23 PM	#5
akrimmel Moved On Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: HAZELWOOD, MO Posts: 2,260	LS and LR

07/10/2006, 01:24 PM	#6
akrimmel Moved On Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: HAZELWOOD, MO Posts: 2,260	correction, rubble rock.

07/10/2006, 01:28 PM	#7
matt7 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: County Durham Posts: 60	don't know never heard of it till i came on here don't know what ever i like the look of!! don't know t5s is that right?i have 10 inch space above tank i have NO idea what akrimmel is saying

07/10/2006, 01:37 PM	#9
akrimmel Moved On Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: HAZELWOOD, MO Posts: 2,260	live sand and live rock. you dont know what they stand for, i didn't as well 5 years ago. does this help------MATT7

07/10/2006, 01:38 PM	#10
mbbuna Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 6,847	well the first thing you need to do is figure out what you want to keep, find out what these things needs are then set the tank up with the equipment needed to meet these needs. back to the mud, some people like it, some dont. i think its overpriced sand/dirt

07/10/2006, 01:45 PM	#11
matt7 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: County Durham Posts: 60	i understand the whats, but not the whys - do i need a refugium?do i use miracle mud or the sand? i understand it will take a least a year to be fully estabilished but i don't want to be adding tanks altering this and that (major stuff that is) i've just knocked a big black hole in chimney breast(no fire there now)had muck EVERYWHERE now everything neat painted clean and tidy with a big empty tank and big empty space underneath now i'm ready to go!!

07/10/2006, 01:47 PM	#12
matt7 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: County Durham Posts: 60	re mbbuna couldn't i do a "over the top set up" ie over sized sump big skimmer etc and this would cover most things?

07/10/2006, 01:49 PM	#13
akrimmel Moved On Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: HAZELWOOD, MO Posts: 2,260	matt7 you seem a little testy, everything good over there in durham?

07/10/2006, 01:51 PM	#14
mbbuna Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 6,847	you could use the sump just to hold you skimmer, pump ect... or you could use part of it as a fuge and still put you equipment in there. do you need a fuge? no can a fuge help lower nitrates? yes can a fuge help naturally feed your tank? yes do you need to use mud? no do you need to use sand? no can you if you want to? yes what is the best way to find out what you want to use? find out what you want to keep

07/10/2006, 01:59 PM	#15
matt7 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: County Durham Posts: 60	akrimmel everything is great just sick of reading conflicting things and ihave to travel nearly 20 miles to nearest marine shop which sells but doesn't really know about cos its too hard! lol plus i've been looking at empty tank for over 2 weeks now

07/10/2006, 02:03 PM	#16
matt7 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: County Durham Posts: 60	mbbuna the wife says a "few nemos and an anemone" i just like the corals at the mo

07/10/2006, 02:04 PM	#17
akrimmel Moved On Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: HAZELWOOD, MO Posts: 2,260	took me 6months of planning and waiting for my current setup and just know have had water in it for close to three weeks, so i feel your pain. i tend not to deal with LFS's just local reefers and friends so much easier and cheaper.

07/10/2006, 02:12 PM	#21
mbbuna Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 6,847	you are going to need moderate to strong light for an anemone. very clean water(good skimmer) and a fuge might help with natural foods. i would save the money from the mud for the skimmer, and if you want sand just put some in for the bugs to craw through

07/10/2006, 02:18 PM	#23
matt7 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: County Durham Posts: 60	mbbuna hve seen 2@ 42" white lights 1@ 42" blue light to run on a timer 2 hours before and after white light. is the mud that expensive? is the mud not special? - just somewhere for the bugs?

07/10/2006, 02:20 PM	#24
matt7 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: County Durham Posts: 60	akrimmel it was the other tank that kept you sane!!! i don't have that (yet) lol