ledges or shelves for rock

frydaddy · 07/16/2006, 11:11 AM

I'm curios how people have made ledges or selves for rock to make caves and ledges more stable. I was thinking of doing it with sections of pvc for the legs or supports and eggcrate to place the rock on and kind of hide everything with rock.

starseed · 07/16/2006, 12:31 PM

Epoxy Expoy Expoy

I had my Live Rock in the tank for 3 years before I commited to a design - I would just rearrange every now and then until I found designes I liked.

Then I just Epoxyed them together, leaving space to be able to access everything I needed in the tank.

I was able to get some great great shapes in my 55 gallon, which isn't easy - arches, caves, cool stuff - partly thanks to expoy (otherwise my turbos would have destroyed it over night.

TKByrnes · 07/16/2006, 10:50 PM

I always use 3 or 4 nice base rocks to make caves and place a nice large rock on top. make 1 nice cave and build off it. my turbos have moved a rock or 2 but for the most part it is stable enough that they cant move the rock. just wedge them as tight as possible. good luck!

merseyman · 07/17/2006, 01:50 AM

... starseed, what kind of epoxy do you use, and roughly how much does it take to hold the LR together? Thanks.

starseed · 07/17/2006, 06:05 PM

I use three things:

1) Devcon Marine/Plactic Epoxy Putty (which is white) - $5 - 2 oz.
2) another marine Epoxy from premiumaquatics (which is pink) - $12 - 2 oz.
3) Super Glue Gel - $2.50

Working with these products within the aquarium can be a stressfull mess and a great gardening tool.

Main things I have learned:

Epoxy and super Glue work very differently.

Epoxy is like working with playdough or clay - you cannot take two rocks and press them together and expect them to stick. The two rocks (or more) need to be supported while the epoxy hardens, about 30 minutes.

Super Glue Gel will harden very fast - great choice for attaching frags. When you apply the glue to the frag out of the water, dry the spot with a paper towel, use a good amount, and make sure it covers a good area (dead spot obviously). When you put the frag w/ the glue into the water, the glue forms a skin that needs to be broken. It's a good idea to bruch off the spot of the LR of dead corelline or alga first. Then press the frag onto the rock and break that glue seal by rocking or twisting the frag. You only have about 10-15 second max. Once you know the glue attached well tot he rock, press and hold still for a minute, then gently let go. Of course, where gloves and avoid touching the polyps.

For attaching LR, if the 2 rocks naturally stay in place, you will have the easiest time and need less expoy. Just place the two rocks where you want, made sure the are secure and won't slip, use enought expoxy (1/4" to 1/2" or more), mix it, and press it into nooks and holes within both rocks. The expoxy NEED to GRIP both rocks, you cannot epoxy flat surfaces. the "clay" will hardens inside grooves and holes in the rock, and that is where you get the strongest hold.

Now if you are attaching 2 LRs that are not stable and in a strange position, you need to use some other rocks or whatever to support the rocks (usually just one rock will need the extra support). Follow the same steps above with about the same amount. Let that harden for 30 minute to an hour. Then re-enforce it with as much as you need until you can remove the support, you might need a final layer after that. You can easily create a shelf, arches, and any shapes you want and support a second rock purely with epoxy.

Another trick with LR is to first use a little Super Glue Gel and temprarily hold the rocks until you can add a little epoxy, this help to use less epoxy, but usually won't work with large rocks, mainly rubble.

Most epoxy is ugly ugly white and stands out - makes the tank look like sh*t IMHO. It will cover over with corelline (if you have good growth) within a few months (up to six or more sometimes), but during that time, ugly ugly ugly. And some areas will not cover quickly is they are too shaded.

That's what the Pink epoxy is for - I just use it as a second layer in those areas, to cover the white.

One last tip - After you have molded your epoxy, use a course material to "blend" the epoxy into the rock. I use an acrylic safe agla pad or sponges or polyfiber. I think one's finger works best to get the epoxy into the rock and blend it into the sides, then press the pad to remove finger prints and create a rough surface.

This does 3 things.

1) It helps the corelline grow over it - I don't scientifically know why, but whenever I left a finger print, corelline grew slowly. With texture, the corelline seems to grow faster.

2) Once covered with corelline, you will not be able to tell rock from epoxy.

3) polyps will be able to spread easily from one rock to another, or at least cover the epoxy.

starseed · 07/17/2006, 06:40 PM

Full View:

Left Side:

Middle:

Right Side:

I added green dots where epoxy was used. The Right Side was done just a few weeks ago.

Left Side:

Middle:

Right Side:

It's only a 55 gallon narrow, so I need to make the most of the space.

The shelf the clam sits on is supported 100% by epoxy and I would never get such a high arch without the epoxy.

merseyman · 07/17/2006, 07:28 PM

... thanks. very, very helpful.

07/16/2006, 11:11 AM	#1
frydaddy Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 80	ledges or shelves for rock I'm curios how people have made ledges or selves for rock to make caves and ledges more stable. I was thinking of doing it with sections of pvc for the legs or supports and eggcrate to place the rock on and kind of hide everything with rock.

07/16/2006, 10:50 PM	#3
TKByrnes Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Fairfield, PA Posts: 1,331	I always use 3 or 4 nice base rocks to make caves and place a nice large rock on top. make 1 nice cave and build off it. my turbos have moved a rock or 2 but for the most part it is stable enough that they cant move the rock. just wedge them as tight as possible. good luck! __________________ Baby it was on sale half price I PROMISE!!!! Current Tank Info: 90 gal mixed reef-55 gal sump-mag 9.5 return pump-10 gal frag tank 15 gal refugium. 2x 150 watt HQI outer orbit 4x pc actinic

07/17/2006, 01:50 AM	#4
merseyman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: san francisco Posts: 381	... starseed, what kind of epoxy do you use, and roughly how much does it take to hold the LR together? Thanks. __________________ ...there's not necessarily always tomorrow... Current Tank Info: 120g, 4-sided starphire, "island" overflow. Being built!

07/17/2006, 06:40 PM	#6
starseed Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 275	Full View: Left Side: Middle: Right Side: I added green dots where epoxy was used. The Right Side was done just a few weeks ago. Left Side: Middle: Right Side: It's only a 55 gallon narrow, so I need to make the most of the space. The shelf the clam sits on is supported 100% by epoxy and I would never get such a high arch without the epoxy. Last edited by starseed; 07/17/2006 at 06:57 PM.

07/17/2006, 07:28 PM	#7
merseyman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: san francisco Posts: 381	... thanks. very, very helpful. __________________ ...there's not necessarily always tomorrow... Current Tank Info: 120g, 4-sided starphire, "island" overflow. Being built!

07/16/2006, 12:31 PM	#2
starseed Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 275	Epoxy Expoy Expoy I had my Live Rock in the tank for 3 years before I commited to a design - I would just rearrange every now and then until I found designes I liked. Then I just Epoxyed them together, leaving space to be able to access everything I needed in the tank. I was able to get some great great shapes in my 55 gallon, which isn't easy - arches, caves, cool stuff - partly thanks to expoy (otherwise my turbos would have destroyed it over night.

07/17/2006, 06:05 PM	#5
starseed Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 275	I use three things: 1) Devcon Marine/Plactic Epoxy Putty (which is white) - $5 - 2 oz. 2) another marine Epoxy from premiumaquatics (which is pink) - $12 - 2 oz. 3) Super Glue Gel - $2.50 Working with these products within the aquarium can be a stressfull mess and a great gardening tool. Main things I have learned: Epoxy and super Glue work very differently. Epoxy is like working with playdough or clay - you cannot take two rocks and press them together and expect them to stick. The two rocks (or more) need to be supported while the epoxy hardens, about 30 minutes. Super Glue Gel will harden very fast - great choice for attaching frags. When you apply the glue to the frag out of the water, dry the spot with a paper towel, use a good amount, and make sure it covers a good area (dead spot obviously). When you put the frag w/ the glue into the water, the glue forms a skin that needs to be broken. It's a good idea to bruch off the spot of the LR of dead corelline or alga first. Then press the frag onto the rock and break that glue seal by rocking or twisting the frag. You only have about 10-15 second max. Once you know the glue attached well tot he rock, press and hold still for a minute, then gently let go. Of course, where gloves and avoid touching the polyps. For attaching LR, if the 2 rocks naturally stay in place, you will have the easiest time and need less expoy. Just place the two rocks where you want, made sure the are secure and won't slip, use enought expoxy (1/4" to 1/2" or more), mix it, and press it into nooks and holes within both rocks. The expoxy NEED to GRIP both rocks, you cannot epoxy flat surfaces. the "clay" will hardens inside grooves and holes in the rock, and that is where you get the strongest hold. Now if you are attaching 2 LRs that are not stable and in a strange position, you need to use some other rocks or whatever to support the rocks (usually just one rock will need the extra support). Follow the same steps above with about the same amount. Let that harden for 30 minute to an hour. Then re-enforce it with as much as you need until you can remove the support, you might need a final layer after that. You can easily create a shelf, arches, and any shapes you want and support a second rock purely with epoxy. Another trick with LR is to first use a little Super Glue Gel and temprarily hold the rocks until you can add a little epoxy, this help to use less epoxy, but usually won't work with large rocks, mainly rubble. Most epoxy is ugly ugly white and stands out - makes the tank look like sh*t IMHO. It will cover over with corelline (if you have good growth) within a few months (up to six or more sometimes), but during that time, ugly ugly ugly. And some areas will not cover quickly is they are too shaded. That's what the Pink epoxy is for - I just use it as a second layer in those areas, to cover the white. One last tip - After you have molded your epoxy, use a course material to "blend" the epoxy into the rock. I use an acrylic safe agla pad or sponges or polyfiber. I think one's finger works best to get the epoxy into the rock and blend it into the sides, then press the pad to remove finger prints and create a rough surface. This does 3 things. 1) It helps the corelline grow over it - I don't scientifically know why, but whenever I left a finger print, corelline grew slowly. With texture, the corelline seems to grow faster. 2) Once covered with corelline, you will not be able to tell rock from epoxy. 3) polyps will be able to spread easily from one rock to another, or at least cover the epoxy.